Eating only what can't run away

[Guest guest]

Yay, Harsha, nicely put!

 

Jill

 

At 02:13 PM 5/28/99 -0400, you wrote:

>"Harsha (Dr. Harsh K. Luthar)" <hluthar

>

>David Bozzi <david.bozzi

>

>To those who believe to kill a person is different or worse than killing an

>animal or

>a plant or a micro organism this isn't the case for all parties mentioned.

>Don't

>believe me? Try hitting an elephant or petting an elephant calf while it's

>parents are

>around. You will soon discover that elephants do not agree that to kill a

>person is

>worse than killing say, an elephant.

>

>So what's the deal here?

>

>Harsha: I guess the deal dear David is that there are no micro organisms,

>plants, fruits, animals, or elephants on this list to represent themselves.

>We are more or less limited to the Human perspective. It is not wrong to

>hold a human perspective, especially if you are in a human body. It is

>fortunate for us that you can put forth a perspective from the fruits and

>vegetables point of view (although you are clearly not a fruit or a

>vegetable :--). Your argument (perhaps tongue in cheek) about eating, if

>taken to its logical conclusion appears to be too rigid and absolutist. You

>do a wonderful job of advocating for plants and fruits with intelligence and

>energy. But common sense suggests that there are levels of violence and we

>should not equate picking fruits with killing animals. We cannot eat and

>breathe without doing some violence. Mahatma Gandhi used to say that since

>violence is built into nature, we must aim to limit or minimize violence. In

>my conditioned view, it seems that it is less violent to pick fruits and

>vegetables to eat than to kill animals to eat. A plant based diet seems less

>violent to me. Perhaps becoming a complete fruitarian overcomes the issue of

>cauliflowers feeling pain as well as pointed out by both Jan and Sue. In any

>case, the main issue here is sensitivity to life and awareness of life all

>around us. Life feeds on life. Being in Awareness and in gratitude for what

>we consume and for those who provide for us by giving themselves up to us

>(fruits, plants, etc.) is helpful. Ultimately, the hunter is the prey. We

>are all prey to the Absolute. Upon being consumed by the Absolute, the

>Realization Dawns that I am the Absolute.

>

>

>------

>It's finally here! What's your opinion?

>

>Create a Star Wars discussion group at ONElist.

>

[Guest guest]

On Thu, 27 May 1999 11:03:31 -0400 "Harsha (Dr. Harsh K. Luthar)"

<hluthar writes:

>"Harsha (Dr. Harsh K. Luthar)" <hluthar

>

>

>Harsha: Madhavaji, your view that we should not eat what can run away

>from

>us seems very interesting and is a good philosophical defense of being

>a vegetarian. I will forward this to two lists where a discussion on

>diet has

>taken place. One question for you. Would eggs be included in your

>vegetarian

>diet as they cannot run away? There are many vegetarians who do not

>eat eggs and some do. Your views on the matter are appreciated.

>

A very good point, sir!

Madhavaji's rule also

would allow the eating of

carrion or of disabled

animals. Perhaps the

only valid rule is "Be

very careful of rules and

stay alive to and in this

very moment."

 

Much love -- Bruce

>

>"Madhava K. Turumella" <madhava

>

>Dear Sadanandaji / Prov. Krishnamurthyji:

>

>Thank you both for the excellent and thought provoking articles on

>vegetarianism.

>I am a vegetarian. I also would like to present my view points on

>this

>subject.

>My definition of vegetarianism: "I DO NOT EAT ANYTHING THAT CAN MOVE

>ON THIS

>EARTH". Movement is provided to them because they wanted to escape

>from

>their predator. I have never come across any animal that has

>willingly

>offered itself to be killed for food. Animals, birds, fish etc. can

>move.

>Given a chance they will always escape from harm. How could we take

>any

>life, when it wants to live?

>Long back when I was very young, I questioned my late grand father on

>why

>our family is vegetarian. My grand father told me a story. "Once upon

>a

>time all beings went to the GOD's court and requested his permission

>for a

>longer life. He granted movement to animals and multiplicity to the

>plants.

>He ordered the animals to escape with the help of the movement. He

>also told

>animals, if they can't move he can't give guarantee for their life.

>He told

>the plants to keep their life by giving leaves and grains to others.

>We

>believe in God's law, that is why we are vegetarians. A tiger can

>kill only

>an old deer, a deer that is young can always run and escape a tiger.

>These

>are all the acts of God to keep the ecological balance. We as humans

>are

>not supposed to kill. If one starts killing a living being for food,

>at one

>point of time he might not even hesitate to kill a human because the

>act of

>killing is the same. Taking life is easy, but giving life is

>impossible".

>I am a human and I do eat in order to live. For that, I eat leaves

>of

>plants and live on plant related products. Then one might question,

>"even

>plants have got life! how could you kill plants?". My answer is: "NO!

>I

>don't *kill* plants to eat. I eat the leaves of the plants."

>Consider the

>following points:

>* Cut one of the legs of any animal... It will live for its rest of

>the

>life as handicapped. It can never grow that leg again!... Cut the

>branch

>of a tree... it not only grows that branch again but also many more

>branches. So loosing a branch is never really considered as harming

>the

>life of the plant! Also plants have got plenty of leaves, taking a few

>will

>not really harm them.

>* Rice, wheat and other grain plants have got limited life. They got

>a life

>cycle of a couple of months, after which we harvest the grains and eat

>them.

>Even If we don't harvest, the plant will anyway die. So, it is not

>that you

>are killing them.

>

>Sincere Regards,

>Madhava

>P.S: I am writing a paper on vegitarianism based on the above points.

> So I

>would request you to inform me, in case anybody would like to

>cross-post/publish the points of this article anywhere

>

>

>------

>Give back to your community through "Grow to Give."

>http://www.ONElist.com

>See homepage for details.

 

_________________

You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.

Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html

or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

[Guest guest]

> "Once upon a

> time all beings went to the GOD's court and requested his permission for a

> longer life. He granted movement to animals and multiplicity to the plants.

> He ordered the animals to escape with the help of the movement.

 

Was not movement given to *catch* also?

> A tiger can kill only

> an old deer, a deer that is young can always run and escape a tiger.

 

Lions in their cunningness work together as a team to catch pretty much anything

they want.

 

Spiders with their webs catch lightning quick flies

 

and so on ...

> We as humans are

> not supposed to kill. If one starts killing a living being for food, at one

> point of time he might not even hesitate to kill a human because the act of

> killing is the same.

 

Then why do not butchers and farmers begin to kill people?

 

David

(knows it's just a story : ) )

[Guest guest]

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----

Van: David Bozzi <david.bozzi

Aan: < >

Datum: donderdag 27 mei 1999 18:08

Onderwerp: Re: Eating only what can't run away

 

 

|David Bozzi <david.bozzi

|

|> "Once upon a

|> time all beings went to the GOD's court and requested his permission for

a

|> longer life. He granted movement to animals and multiplicity to the

plants.

|> He ordered the animals to escape with the help of the movement.

|

|Was not movement given to *catch* also?

|

|> A tiger can kill only

|> an old deer, a deer that is young can always run and escape a tiger.

|

|Lions in their cunningness work together as a team to catch pretty much

anything

|they want.

|

|Spiders with their webs catch lightning quick flies

|

|and so on ...

|

|> We as humans are

|> not supposed to kill. If one starts killing a living being for food, at

one

|> point of time he might not even hesitate to kill a human because the act

of

|> killing is the same.

|

|Then why do not butchers and farmers begin to kill people?

|

|David

|(knows it's just a story : ) )

|

 

 

Because it is forbidden by law ! They do not want to go to prison as they

want to be able to 'move' around

just joking !

However, it is very sad how people treat animals. Animals (as well as little

children) do remind us of our innocence,

at least that's the effect they have on me. But why make any distintion at

all. Let's not divide life.

It's all in this very very tricky mind.

 

bi

Hans

[Guest guest]

Gloria;

Really a very interesting way of seeing it. Thanks, I would like to post it to

the heart list, let me know if you mind.

 

Harsha (Dr. Harsh K. Luthar) wrote:

> "Harsha (Dr. Harsh K. Luthar)" <hluthar

>

> Harsha: Madhavaji, your view that we should not eat what can run away from

> us seems very interesting and is a good philosophical defense of being a

> vegetarian. I will forward this to two lists where a discussion on diet has

> taken place. One question for you. Would eggs be included in your vegetarian

> diet as they cannot run away? There are many vegetarians who do not eat eggs

> and some do. Your views on the matter are appreciated.

>

> "Madhava K. Turumella" <madhava

>

> Dear Sadanandaji / Prov. Krishnamurthyji:

>

> Thank you both for the excellent and thought provoking articles on

> vegetarianism.

> I am a vegetarian. I also would like to present my view points on this

> subject.

> My definition of vegetarianism: "I DO NOT EAT ANYTHING THAT CAN MOVE ON THIS

> EARTH". Movement is provided to them because they wanted to escape from

> their predator. I have never come across any animal that has willingly

> offered itself to be killed for food. Animals, birds, fish etc. can move.

> Given a chance they will always escape from harm. How could we take any

> life, when it wants to live?

> Long back when I was very young, I questioned my late grand father on why

> our family is vegetarian. My grand father told me a story. "Once upon a

> time all beings went to the GOD's court and requested his permission for a

> longer life. He granted movement to animals and multiplicity to the plants.

> He ordered the animals to escape with the help of the movement. He also told

> animals, if they can't move he can't give guarantee for their life. He told

> the plants to keep their life by giving leaves and grains to others. We

> believe in God's law, that is why we are vegetarians. A tiger can kill only

> an old deer, a deer that is young can always run and escape a tiger. These

> are all the acts of God to keep the ecological balance. We as humans are

> not supposed to kill. If one starts killing a living being for food, at one

> point of time he might not even hesitate to kill a human because the act of

> killing is the same. Taking life is easy, but giving life is impossible".

> I am a human and I do eat in order to live. For that, I eat leaves of

> plants and live on plant related products. Then one might question, "even

> plants have got life! how could you kill plants?". My answer is: "NO! I

> don't *kill* plants to eat. I eat the leaves of the plants." Consider the

> following points:

> * Cut one of the legs of any animal... It will live for its rest of the

> life as handicapped. It can never grow that leg again!... Cut the branch

> of a tree... it not only grows that branch again but also many more

> branches. So loosing a branch is never really considered as harming the

> life of the plant! Also plants have got plenty of leaves, taking a few will

> not really harm them.

> * Rice, wheat and other grain plants have got limited life. They got a life

> cycle of a couple of months, after which we harvest the grains and eat them.

> Even If we don't harvest, the plant will anyway die. So, it is not that you

> are killing them.

>

> Sincere Regards,

> Madhava

> P.S: I am writing a paper on vegitarianism based on the above points. So I

> would request you to inform me, in case anybody would like to

> cross-post/publish the points of this article anywhere

>

> ------

> What do lizards and rock music have in common?

>

> They both have communities at ONElist. Find yours today!

[Guest guest]

> "Harsha (Dr. Harsh K. Luthar)" <hluthar

>

>

> Harsha: Madhavaji, your view that we should not eat what can run away from

> us seems very interesting and is a good philosophical defense of being a

> vegetarian. I will forward this to two lists where a discussion

> on diet has

> taken place. One question for you. Would eggs be included in your

> vegetarian

> diet as they cannot run away? There are many vegetarians who do

> not eat eggs

> and some do. Your views on the matter are appreciated.

[...]

 

What truly amazes is that so few are willing to take the necessary

experiments to find out for oneself what one's optimum diet has to consist

of. There are many theories with followers but where is experiential data

and on what is that based? Considering the issue top-down, one is spirit

linked to a body (or bodies). These bodies have to function properly which

means for the physical one, abundant energy and the absence of disease and

bodily conditions that will influence the mind. Not having had any cold or

flue or other disease since ten years, my experiments were rather successful

 

Jan

[Guest guest]

Hans Deunhouwer wrote:

> |Then why do not butchers and farmers begin to kill people?

> |

> |David

> |(knows it's just a story : ) )

> |

>

> Because it is forbidden by law ! They do not want to go to prison as they

> want to be able to 'move' around

> just joking !

 

: )

> However, it is very sad how people treat animals.

 

And other people. (like Barbara Streisand for example)

> Animals (as well as little

> children) do remind us of our innocence,

> at least that's the effect they have on me. But why make any distintion at

> all. Let's not divide life.

 

Then don't eat veggies & fruits as they are alive as well.

In the world of dualism we've no choice to feed on life.

There's no way around this. We are after all *alive*. : )

Our very essence is life.

> It's all in this very very tricky mind.

 

I liken life to awareness. It is the same.

So let us remember, in truth, life cannot be taken or divided.

(thank god)

Only form.

 

Whether one eats meat or not has nothing to do spiritual awareness.

I have come across some very militant vegetarians

and some truly awe-inspiring consumers of the flesh.

 

Blessings to All

(regardless of what you put in your trap)

[Guest guest]

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----

Van: David Bozzi <david.bozzi

Aan: < >

Datum: vrijdag 28 mei 1999 3:22

Onderwerp: Re: Eating only what can't run away

 

 

|David Bozzi <david.bozzi

|

|Hans Deunhouwer wrote:

|

|> |Then why do not butchers and farmers begin to kill people?

|> |

|> |David

|> |(knows it's just a story : ) )

|> |

|>

|> Because it is forbidden by law ! They do not want to go to prison as they

|> want to be able to 'move' around

|> just joking !

|

|: )

|

|> However, it is very sad how people treat animals.

|

|And other people. (like Barbara Streisand for example)

 

goes without saying !

 

|

|> Animals (as well as little

|> children) do remind us of our innocence,

|> at least that's the effect they have on me. But why make any distintion

at

|> all. Let's not divide life.

|

|Then don't eat veggies & fruits as they are alive as well.

|In the world of dualism we've no choice to feed on life.

|There's no way around this. We are after all *alive*. : )

|Our very essence is life.

 

i follow my heart . i can eat fruit or veggies without any problem, but

i could not kill an animal.

the more so because of the way they are raised. and also when they are

born, they are predestined

to be killed. they have no choice, no chance. the same goes for certain

groups of people.

 

|

|> It's all in this very very tricky mind.

|

|I liken life to awareness. It is the same.

|So let us remember, in truth, life cannot be taken or divided.

|(thank god)

|Only form.

 

the ignorant mind can easily create any division it chooses and act

accordingly.

life is one but i would not dare say however that to eat veggies or

fruit is the same as killing a person or an animal.

 

|

|Whether one eats meat or not has nothing to do spiritual awareness.

|I have come across some very militant vegetarians

|and some truly awe-inspiring consumers of the flesh.

 

i do not feel a vegetarian at all. i am just a person who chooses not to

eat meat because it it very

easy to live without.

 

|

|Blessings to All

|(regardless of what you put in your trap)

|

|

|

|------

|Looking for a new hobby? Want to make a new friend?

|

|Come join one of over 150,000 e-mail communities at ONElist!

|

[Guest guest]

Hans Deunhouwer wrote:

> life is one but i would not dare say however that to eat veggies or

> fruit is the same as killing a person or an animal.

>From your perspective or that of the murdered vegetable?

 

Also is killing a person the same as killing an animal?

 

David,

(just wondering)

[Guest guest]

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----

Van: David Bozzi <david.bozzi

Aan: < >

Datum: vrijdag 28 mei 1999 17:53

Onderwerp: Re: Eating only what can't run away

 

 

|David Bozzi <david.bozzi

|

|Hans Deunhouwer wrote:

|

|> life is one but i would not dare say however that to eat veggies or

|> fruit is the same as killing a person or an animal.

|

|From your perspective or that of the murdered vegetable?

 

when you sit down at the table to eat and your host says :

ì will be back in a minute. i just have to kill somebody to eat.

 

would this be the same as :

i will be back in just a minute i have to pick some fruits and veggies

to eat.

 

|Also is killing a person the same as killing an animal?

 

to me there is no difference, although on planet earth the consequences

of killing a human being or an animal are different.

 

there are tribes that ask the animal they are about to kill for forgiveness.

we put them in cages their whole life destroying their natural needs and at

the end we kill them rudelesly without any pity at all almost like a piece

of machinery.

 

|

|David,

|(just wondering)

|

|

|

|

|

|------

|Campaign 2000 is here!

|

|Discuss your thoughts; get informed at ONElist. See our homepage.

|

[Guest guest]

I would invite you to try an experiment that I have tried on a number of

occasions that might help

understand this ...

 

Place yourself in the consciousness of a big cat ... lion, jaguar etc... as it

stalks and then kills

its prey.

 

you might find that the cat is aware of the consciousness of the prey that has

given up its

lifeforce to provide food for the cat ...

 

the essence is in taking only what is necessary for survival ... consciously ...

 

the plant, the animal we eat is then, in essence, an aspect of us undergoing

transmutation

 

Christopher Wynter

Hobart, Tasmania

wynter

http://www.anunda.com

___________________

[Guest guest]

Thank you Hans for sincerely responding to my indulgent wondering.

I appreciate that.

 

Hans Deunhouwer wrote:

> when you sit down at the table to eat and your host says :

> ì will be back in a minute. i just have to kill somebody to eat.

 

Barbara Streisand?

> would this be the same as :

> i will be back in just a minute i have to pick some fruits and veggies

> to eat.

 

Depending on who is asked (me, Barbara, or the vegetable)

the answer would vary.

> |Also is killing a person the same as killing an animal?

>

> to me there is no difference, although on planet earth the consequences

> of killing a human being or an animal are different.

> there are tribes that ask the animal they are about to kill for forgiveness.

> we put them in cages their whole life destroying their natural needs and at

> the end we kill them rudelesly without any pity at all almost like a piece

> of machinery.

 

Yes, animals are treated with cruelty. And the level of awareness regarding a

tribe like

the one you cite seems to indicate a higher level of awareness on these matters.

 

But here's my point...

 

We all agree Life is one.

 

But it doesn't end there. We draw distinctions and then justify our distinctions

to

tailor our filtered perspective. That's fine. We all do this. But it's important

to

realize that we do this and not overlook that.

 

To those who believe to kill a person is different or worse than killing an

animal or

a plant or a micro organism this isn't the case for all parties mentioned. Don't

believe me? Try hitting an elephant or petting an elephant calf while it's

parents are

around. You will soon discover that elephants do not agree that to kill a person

is

worse than killing say, an elephant.

 

So what's the deal here?

 

Life is one and our filtered perspectives really don't mean much beyond that.

 

That's all I'd like to point out.

 

I certainly don't wish to kill anyone's perspective.

 

Egos and their inherent perspectives are just as defensive as animals, plants,

(many plants have defenses & some are carnivorous) micro organisms, etc.

 

Life is one and this perspective must die also.

 

Blessings.

[Guest guest]

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----

Van: David Bozzi <david.bozzi

Aan: < >

Datum: vrijdag 28 mei 1999 18:42

Onderwerp: Re: Eating only what can't run away

 

 

|

|But here's my point...

|

|We all agree Life is one.

|

|But it doesn't end there. We draw distinctions and then justify our

distinctions to

|tailor our filtered perspective. That's fine. We all do this. But it's

important to

|realize that we do this and not overlook that.

 

agreed.

|

|To those who believe to kill a person is different or worse than killing an

animal or

|a plant or a micro organism this isn't the case for all parties mentioned.

Don't

|believe me? Try hitting an elephant or petting an elephant calf while it's

parents are

|around. You will soon discover that elephants do not agree that to kill a

person is

|worse than killing say, an elephant.

|

|So what's the deal here?

|

|Life is one and our filtered perspectives really don't mean much beyond

that.

 

agreed.

 

 

|Life is one and this perspective must die also.

 

'life is one' is both true and false.

if it were only true, then who i am talking to ?

 

in one of your previous mailings you said that 'it all depend on your

intend'.

i agree.

 

how can you lie if you do not know the truth ?

 

Bi

hans

[Guest guest]

David Bozzi wrote:

> >From your perspective or that of the murdered vegetable?

>

> Also is killing a person the same as killing an animal?

>

 

Marcia:

 

I have been following this thread on eating and so forth.

Last night I found I was feeling kind of guilty eating tofu.

And I was wondering if it could run away or not. :-)

 

Seriously though, plants grow towards and away from

light and water. In their world they may even be running.

Who knows?

 

How do we really know where to draw the line? I agree

that eating meat is much more unbalanced in terms of

the earth's economy and it doesn't feel good to eat meat.

But maybe in the history of the earth eating meat was

necessary and now it isn't and is actually a burden now.

Something which adds to gravity rather than subtracting.

 

I guess my question is why make it a religious thing?

Anthropologically all sorts of things have taken on religious

connotations when the real basis was evolutionary necessity.

 

I am totally uneducated and have not studied the masters

on this issue so excuse my ignorance. I am not meaning to

be offensive or anything. Just wondering if the emperor

really has on clothes or not. :-)

[Guest guest]

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----

Van: Marcia Paul <jacpa

Aan: < >

Datum: vrijdag 28 mei 1999 19:02

Onderwerp: Re: Eating only what can't run away

 

 

|Marcia Paul <jacpa

 

 

|Marcia:

|

|I have been following this thread on eating and so forth.

|Last night I found I was feeling kind of guilty eating tofu.

|And I was wondering if it could run away or not. :-)

 

it must have run away, because i just found it on my plate

 

|

|How do we really know where to draw the line? I agree

|that eating meat is much more unbalanced in terms of

|the earth's economy and it doesn't feel good to eat meat.

|But maybe in the history of the earth eating meat was

|necessary and now it isn't and is actually a burden now.

|Something which adds to gravity rather than subtracting.

 

this sounds good to me.

 

|

|I guess my question is why make it a religious thing?

 

 

i used to blame people for eating meat. but then i realised

this issue is much and much broader.

the issue is : are you aware of what your are doing ?

if not, there is nobody there to be blamed.

 

 

have fun.

 

Bi

Hans

[Guest guest]

The Dalai Llama eats meat occasionally. Seems that meat is am important

staple in Tibet, there not being lots of plant food. There are some

American Buddhists who are trying to get him to take up vegetarianism....

 

--Greg

 

At 10:01 AM 5/28/99 -0700, Marcia Paul wrote:

>Marcia Paul <jacpa

>

>

>

>David Bozzi wrote:

>

>> >From your perspective or that of the murdered vegetable?

>>

>> Also is killing a person the same as killing an animal?

>>

>

>Marcia:

>

>I have been following this thread on eating and so forth.

>Last night I found I was feeling kind of guilty eating tofu.

>And I was wondering if it could run away or not. :-)

>

>Seriously though, plants grow towards and away from

>light and water. In their world they may even be running.

>Who knows?

>

>How do we really know where to draw the line? I agree

>that eating meat is much more unbalanced in terms of

>the earth's economy and it doesn't feel good to eat meat.

>But maybe in the history of the earth eating meat was

>necessary and now it isn't and is actually a burden now.

>Something which adds to gravity rather than subtracting.

>

>I guess my question is why make it a religious thing?

>Anthropologically all sorts of things have taken on religious

>connotations when the real basis was evolutionary necessity.

[Guest guest]

David Bozzi <david.bozzi

 

To those who believe to kill a person is different or worse than killing an

animal or

a plant or a micro organism this isn't the case for all parties mentioned.

Don't

believe me? Try hitting an elephant or petting an elephant calf while it's

parents are

around. You will soon discover that elephants do not agree that to kill a

person is

worse than killing say, an elephant.

 

So what's the deal here?

 

Harsha: I guess the deal dear David is that there are no micro organisms,

plants, fruits, animals, or elephants on this list to represent themselves.

We are more or less limited to the Human perspective. It is not wrong to

hold a human perspective, especially if you are in a human body. It is

fortunate for us that you can put forth a perspective from the fruits and

vegetables point of view (although you are clearly not a fruit or a

vegetable :--). Your argument (perhaps tongue in cheek) about eating, if

taken to its logical conclusion appears to be too rigid and absolutist. You

do a wonderful job of advocating for plants and fruits with intelligence and

energy. But common sense suggests that there are levels of violence and we

should not equate picking fruits with killing animals. We cannot eat and

breathe without doing some violence. Mahatma Gandhi used to say that since

violence is built into nature, we must aim to limit or minimize violence. In

my conditioned view, it seems that it is less violent to pick fruits and

vegetables to eat than to kill animals to eat. A plant based diet seems less

violent to me. Perhaps becoming a complete fruitarian overcomes the issue of

cauliflowers feeling pain as well as pointed out by both Jan and Sue. In any

case, the main issue here is sensitivity to life and awareness of life all

around us. Life feeds on life. Being in Awareness and in gratitude for what

we consume and for those who provide for us by giving themselves up to us

(fruits, plants, etc.) is helpful. Ultimately, the hunter is the prey. We

are all prey to the Absolute. Upon being consumed by the Absolute, the

Realization Dawns that I am the Absolute.

[Guest guest]

Harsha (Dr. Harsh K. Luthar) wrote:

> We cannot eat and

> breathe without doing some violence. Mahatma Gandhi used to say that since

> violence is built into nature, we must aim to limit or minimize violence.

 

The laws of creation and destruction are integral in our world. We cannot

eliminatedestruction and violence. It is a law of our world. Our challenge is

to find the

balance between creation and destruction, peace and violence, building and

destroying

to maintain and preserve life.

 

Regards,

Sue

http://www.adelaide.net.au/~smacrae

[Guest guest]

Message: 10

Thu, 27 May 1999 11:30:00 -0400

Bruce Morgen <editor

Re: Eating only what can't run away

 

Ok lets play to the end of this logic

 

What if after x generations we turn into plants and stop moving from

eating only what can't run away. Guess we will be eating ourselves

then... Guess it comes up to accept that i am eating myself already...

 

Playing,

Antoine

[Guest guest]

> Antoine <carrea

>

> Message: 10

> Thu, 27 May 1999 11:30:00 -0400

> Bruce Morgen <editor

> Re: Eating only what can't run away

>

> Ok lets play to the end of this logic

>

> What if after x generations we turn into plants and stop moving from

> eating only what can't run away. Guess we will be eating ourselves

> then... Guess it comes up to accept that i am eating myself already...

>

> Playing,

> Antoine

 

A tropical rain forest is an ecosystem that forms a closed loop; the soil is

very poor and only due to recycling of what has died, the rain forest can

exist. This was thought to be true until it was found that winds are

transporting fertile soil from the Sahara to South-America. So even full

recycling won't do.

 

The body has the capacity for recycling waste too. This is particularly true

for fruitarians as their need for protein is very low. So in a certain

sense, everyone is eating oneself already and the more efficient this

happens, the less will be the requirement for food.

 

Jan

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/29/99 5:30:01 AM, kvy9 writes:

 

<<The body has the capacity for recycling waste too. This is particularly true

for fruitarians as their need for protein is very low. So in a certain

sense, everyone is eating oneself already and the more efficient this

happens, the less will be the requirement for food.

>>

 

Let's take it to another leap and consider that breatharians can and do

exist, that perhaps it's the quality of energy one circulates that runs the

body, and not food. It is said that within the heart chakra there is a

brilliant light. It's the door to All That Is, and thru this door comes the

energy which creates and regenerates our entire system. Ideally this

"spiritual subtle energy body" resides within the entire physicality, and

someday when we feel safe enough to BE one with All That Is, then there will

be nothing "outside" of us that is necessary to run this amplifier of Spirit.

 

Oops, forgot to introduce myself. I've been lurking for a few days, my name

is Cherie. I live on an island outside of Seattle, WA and practice Holistic

Therapy. Spirituality has always been my focus, I'm a mystic by nature.

Namaste,

Cherie

[Guest guest]

> SEEABIRD

[...]

> Let's take it to another leap and consider that breatharians can and do

> exist, that perhaps it's the quality of energy one circulates

> that runs the

> body, and not food. [...]

 

Apart from recycling, there is a small practical problem. Hair, nails and

skin do grow, irrespective of one's feeding habit - they will continue to

grow when fasting and it means a constant loss of matter. So a breatharian

would have to convert energy into matter and if m=E/c^2, even a milligram of

hair / nails / dandruff equals an awful lot of energy. Perhaps a biologist

knows the amount of matter that irrevocably gets lost by these growth

processes. Unless, a breatharian does away with growing hair, nails and

skin, which would make it all the more astonishing because usually, even

after death they keep growing for a while... The side-effect for Western men

would be never having to shave again which is rather appealing

 

Jan

[Guest guest]

>

>"jb" <kvy9

>

> > SEEABIRD

>[...]

> > Let's take it to another leap and consider that breatharians can and do

> > exist, that perhaps it's the quality of energy one circulates

> > that runs the

> > body, and not food. [...]

>

>Apart from recycling, there is a small practical problem. Hair, nails and

>skin do grow, irrespective of one's feeding habit - they will continue to

>grow when fasting and it means a constant loss of matter. So a breatharian

>would have to convert energy into matter and if m=E/c^2, even a milligram

>of

>hair / nails / dandruff equals an awful lot of energy. Perhaps a biologist

>knows the amount of matter that irrevocably gets lost by these growth

>processes. Unless, a breatharian does away with growing hair, nails and

>skin, which would make it all the more astonishing because usually, even

>after death they keep growing for a while... The side-effect for Western

>men

>would be never having to shave again which is rather appealing

>

 

Suppose, there is certain DNA changes in breatharians which allows them to

synthesize amino acids, the basic units of protein, form air which contains

all the essential elements, even trace minerals, as you can have Sahara

dusts blown to South America. Suppose, they can also utilize the cosmic

energy for life functions.

 

Just some random thoughts.

 

Namaste,

 

Sam.

 

PS: I have met persons who claim to total fast from a few days, weeks,

months, and even 5 years! Of course I am a skeptic, but I cannot see their

motive to fabricate.

 

 

_____________

Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

[Guest guest]

Again, more random questions...

 

What if their DNA gets some genes similar to what plants have? Is it true

that all our energy and stuff inside us comes from plants?

 

Namaste,

 

Sam.

>Tim Gerchmez <fewtch

>

>

>Re: Eating only what can't run away

>Sun, 30 May 1999 13:35:32 -0700

>

>Tim Gerchmez <fewtch

>

>At 01:13 PM 5/30/99 PDT, you wrote:

>

> >Suppose, there is certain DNA changes in breatharians which allows them

>to

> >synthesize amino acids, the basic units of protein, form air which

>contains

> >all the essential elements, even trace minerals, as you can have Sahara

> >dusts blown to South America. Suppose, they can also utilize the cosmic

> >energy for life functions.

>

>I think this is far too "shallow" a view (no insult intended). On the

>atomic level, every "element" consists simply of a number of varying

>protons, neutrons and electrons (Matter = Energy/C2). So does DNA and

>other amino acids. It makes more sense that what might go on in a

>breatharian is happening at the atomic level, not at the level of elements.

> And that what atoms are is not understood at all by the scientific world

>(nobody has determined what the "smallest particle) "in" an atom might be.

>

> >Just some random thoughts.

>

>Ditto :-)

>

> >Namaste,

> >

> >Sam.

>

>With Love,

>

>Tim

>

>-----

>Visit The Core of the WWW at:

>http://www.eskimo.com/~fewtch/ND/index.html

>Music, Poetry, Writings on Nondual Spiritual Topics.

>

>Tim's Windows and DOS Shareware/Freeware is at:

>http://www.eskimo.com/~fewtch/shareware.html

>

>------

>Where do some of the Internet's largest email lists reside?

>

>At ONElist - the most scalable and reliable service on the Internet.

 

 

_____________

Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

[Guest guest]

Message: 2

Sat, 29 May 1999 13:29:50 +0100

"jb" <kvy9

Re: Eating only what can't run away

 

Antoine:

> What if after x generations we turn into plants and stop moving from

> eating only what can't run away. Guess we will be eating ourselves

> then... Guess it comes up to accept that i am eating myself already...

 

Jan:

<< A tropical rain forest is an ecosystem that forms a closed loop; the

soil is very poor and only due to recycling of what has died, the rain

forest can exist. This was thought to be true until it was found that

winds are transporting fertile soil from the Sahara to South-America. So

even full recycling won't do. >>

 

And what about the sun, and stellar energies, and even more subtle

energies, influence on the ecosystem of the tropical rain forest... Also

some do see forest as hair on the skin of the planet where the planet

becomes one eco-system, the tropical rain forest is just hair for the

planet, in that perspective. Human come in as ants or parasites in this

system for the planet.

 

The concept of food is an interesting concept, for it seems to point to

what limits a system from the outside of it.

 

<< The body has the capacity for recycling waste too. This is

particularly true for fruitarians as their need for protein is very

low. So in a certain sense, everyone is eating oneself already and the

more efficient this

happens, the less will be the requirement for food. >>

 

Like one could say that the sun is eating rocks, turning them over eons

on this planet into what we call life moving process. The work of bees

making honey from the work of plants making flower from the work of the

sun shining on the leaves of plants, and so on...

 

Cherie:

<< Let's take it to another leap and consider that breatharians can and

do exist, that perhaps it's the quality of energy one circulates that

runs the body, and not food. >>

 

Jan:

<< Apart from recycling, there is a small practical problem. Hair, nails

and skin do grow, irrespective of one's feeding habit - they will

continue to grow when fasting and it means a constant loss of matter. So

a breatharian would have to convert energy into matter and if m=E/c^2,

even a milligram of hair / nails / dandruff equals an awful lot of

energy. >>

 

I don't see a problem here, on one side we could only breath air and the

other only eat rock, so we could have the possibility to accelerate the

process of conversion of rocks into air in nature, as a micro-organism.

That is staying in this conceptual framework of a eating relation with

this world.

 

I only see a trap in such thinking, it's maintaining the habit of

thinking that there is a difference in substance between rocks, life

flesh, and air, when it may as well be all the same stuff. To take an

analogy, do we tend to think that water eats water, when a river flows

into the sea? What makes us think differently when i eat a juicy steak,

a tomato, a rock or simply breath? The river sides of our river that cut

us from the Sea are still real solid on some levels of manifestation.

 

Antoine