Guest guest Posted June 4, 1999 Report Share Posted June 4, 1999 On Fri, 4 Jun 1999 20:44:56 EDT HarshaIMTM writes: >HarshaIMTM > >Forwarding from without my response. Comments welcome. > Madhya expresses the orthodox viewpoint with great confidence and at great length -- watch out, Gene Poole, you have a serious rival when it comes to pure word count! :-) While I am not inclined to refute or refine this articulate and historically well supported presentation in detail, I agree with a great deal of it and disagree with a number of the Madhya's key assumptions. I'm sure what she writes reflects her own experience accurately, but it is a great (albeit very common) error to generalize ones personal experience into generalities encompassing human spiritual experience in its entirety, regardless of how much support one can glean from the writings of Famous Dead Guys[tm]. That said, one of my favorite Famous Dead Guys[tm] said the following on his breaking free of an orthodoxy, imposed upon him by well intentioned others, seventy years ago in Holland: "I maintain that truth is a pathless land, and you cannot approach it by any path whatsoever, by any religion, by any sect." I would add that the relationship of so-called spiritual practices to the great truth that is variously called "enlightenment,realization," "God," etc. is emphatically not causal -- nothing one can do can summon this occurence and any and all yogas and meditation regimes are strictly non-deterministic with respect to the profound perceptual shift to which Madhya points. This does not mean that one should abandon formal practice or that it has no value -- it just means that this best any practice can do is to facilitate conditions that may or may not be somewhat conducive to an event that is strictly a matter of grace. Practice or not as is the propensity of your particular incarnation, but do so without expectation of any particular outcome. As always, the dynamic that nurtures awareness is the spontaneous absence of intent, the moment of surrender -- what precedes that moment temporally, the course of ones life, is the real definition of "path," all else is mere detail. >"Madhya Nandi" <madhya > >Happy Friday Satsanghers! > > >On occasion, a well-intentioned Satsangher will post seeking wisdom >regarding the nature of mystical/spiritual Realization. Often as not, >the >poster will be treated to a perspective which claims 'there's nothing >to do! > You're already there. Just accept that you are Enlightened, that you >are >'liberated' and you will become That. Becoming That, you will see >that you >were There all the time." > >Who does not wish to be told that absolute freedom, joy, bliss, etc., >can be >so easily attained? Perspectives making the above claims, while >sincere, >are misguided and in fact, may accomplish more harm than good. > >Recently, we enjoyed a brief flurry of exchanges regarding the >question of >'turya' or the fourth state of consciousness. It was intimated by >some >posters that the question of a fourth state, or indeed, of any 'state' >of >consciousness, was essentially unimportant. All that one need do is >realize >that one is already there! Just accept that you are already there >and >you'll actually be there! There are no 'states' of consciousness, >some >posters claim, just look around you and accept "the fact" that you are >not >this and this and this, and you'll see your "true" self. > >Again, nothing could be more misguided and misinformed. > >Enlightenment cannot be experienced by mere 'negation.' Why? >Because >Enlightenment requires a complete transformation of consciousness. >THE >CHARACTER OF THIS 'COMPLETE TRANSFORMATION' OF CONSCIOUSNESS IS SUCH >THAT >THE AWAKENED PERSON RECOGNIZES THAT WHILE EVERYTHING HAS CHANGED, >NOTHING >HAS CHANGED. > >What does this mean? Being 'Awake' is a substantively different >experience >of consciousness. The experience of time and space are completely >transformed. The awakened person experiences, in the midst of the >flow of >temporal events, utter and complete timelessness. This >'non-temporality' >becomes part of the structure of experienced consciousness. >Experiencing >'no-duration' means that in the structure of one's consciousness, >there is >the awareness that time does not move at all. The experience of >duration >includes a quality of recognizing that all the 'time' that one has >every >experienced has occurred in a single, motionless instant. One is able >to >bring to mind any memory, any image from one's past and recognize a >quality >of that experience that is EXACTLY the same--and realize that >temporal >experience includes both duration and non-duration. > >This is not the content of ordinary consciousness. Non-awakened >consciousness experiences only the flow of time and not the absolute >awareness of non-duration. > >The experience of spatiality also transforms with Awakening. The >non-awakened consciousness experiences all movement as motion from one >place >to another. You get up to go to the bathroom and your awareness is >moving >from one room to another. You leave your home and get into your car >to go >to work and your awareness is of a linear journey from this place to >that >place to another place. The awakened consciousness, however, >experiences >spatiality very differently. Every place where the awakened person >stands >is apprehended as being exactly the same location where one has always >been >throughout all of one's spatial experience. All locations, no matter >how >distant or foreign, are experienced as precisely the same place. A >'familiarity' inheres in the experience of spatiality. The nature of >this >'familiarity' is the experience of never moving--of being always in >one >familiar place that is absolutely the same. Thus the awakened >consciousness >both comprehends the datum of being in another location--as always >before--and, additionally recognizes a quality of spatiality that is >'non-spatial' or non-different, if you will. > >The restructuring of awakened consciousness includes further >characteristics. Because the enlightened consciousness perceives all >time--past and future-- as exactly the same as the present, that >consciousness behaves altogether differently from the person who >experiences >the flow of time. > >Persons who experience life in the context of a linear, time and >space-bound >consciousness, form and define self-identity by forming attachments to >all >the events that occur within this context and behave by virtue of >that >experience. The awakened consciousness is not bound by a strictly >linear >and narrative spatio-temporal reference for events that occur. The >awakened consciousness releases all attachments to past events and >ceases to >identify with these experiences. The reason this occurs is because >the >structure of ongoing awareness has transformed. When this happens, >attachments naturally fall away. The 'emotion/feeling' based >mechanism for >behaving is exchanged and a new dynamicity for behaving arises. The >nature >of awakened behavior arises from a complete union with the present >moment. >Behavior changes from its former narrative-based performance to an >increasingly immediate and spontaneous 'Moment' based behavior. > >An example: I am waiting tables. A customer criticizes me for being >too >slow and delivering a cold meal. A common reaction is to feel >defensive or >angry or resentful. The nonawakened personality will react to this >situation by virtue of the accumulated tensions from previous >experiences. >He or she might internalize the tension, or lash out at the customer, >or >even choose to return kindness for injury. But no matter the >behavior, the >tension of experiences accumulates when the personality is under the >sole >dominion of the narrative, cumulative form of consciousness. The >structural >result of awakening consciousness is the experience of >nondifferentiated >time and space. The effect of this transformation of consciousness is >the >release of accumulated tensions. The awakened personality no longer >experiences or behaves as before awakening. Rather, no matter the >actual >character of the awakened waiter's response, that response will arise >and >disappear instantly. This means that her actions in a given set of >circumstances will not be conditioned or determined by a personality >that >behaves as a result of accumulated tensions or emotional attachments, >prejudices and so forth. Neither will the behavior arrive from an >experiene >of consciousness determined by existential concerns determined by >attachments to the narrative flow of time from the past and into the >future. > >None of these 'transformations' of consciousness signal more than >'recognizing consciousness for precisely what it is.' Nothing is >added to >or subtracted from the nature of consciousness as such. However, the >event >of awakening to 'what always already is' only occurs as one transforms >one's >experience of consciousness. Thus, awakening or enlightenment, must >always >be BOTH a transformative journey AND a recognition that through >transformation one recognizes that consciousness is exactly as it >always >was. The necessary paradox is that the latter cannot occur without >the >former. > >The experience of 'turya', or the fourth state of consciousness is >this very >transformation. Although turya is always present in all states of >consciousness, one can only transform consciousness through meditation >and >sadhana until gradually the positive qualities of turya permanently >condition and illumine the experience of consciousness. This is a >STRUCTURAL transformation of consciousness because the event of >conditioning >and illuminence, the restructuring of consciousness to recognize what >was >not previously recognized, automatically retools and reorients the >context >of BEHAVIOR. > >One can indeed experience glimpses of the absolute, immutable >'transcendent' >aspect of consciousness. However, these glimpses can never be >sufficient in >and of themselves to accomplish enlightenment. More often than not, >the >hopeful recipient of such an experience, builds a wall of attachment >around >the experience and consequently, prohibits the possibility for real >spiritual growth. This amounts to little more than 'enlightenment by >wishful thinking.' > >Persons who suggest that no practices or transformation need occur to >'become enlightened or self-realized' are peddling little more than >snake-oil. All the major mystical/spiritual traditions present >spiritual >attainment as a journey of transformation leading toward a new, >structurally >reintegrated personality. Such traditions include all the branches >of >Buddhism, the Sufi orders, Christian mysticism and most Hindu >traditions. >It is virtually impossible to name a single great Teacher, Sage or >Saint, >who did not journey toward enlightenment and experience as a result, >a >completely new structure of Experience. Teachers who advocate no >practice >or sadhana at all in order to experience Awakening are in the extreme >minority. > >Work and discipline are always a hard sell. Aspirants do not wish to >hear >the sacrifices and the surrendering that must occur on the path of >Self-Realization. Westerners in particular, are influenced by >Christian >traditions based on the simple acceptance of Jesus as the Savior for >salvation. Americans often come to eastern spirituality unaware of >the >quality of commitment and effort involved in spiritual transformation >and >enlightenment. > >The reward for effort and transformation is very great. In time, >work >becomes pleasure, and pleasure becomes Self-Realization. Gautama >Buddha, >Abhinavagupta, Ramana Maharshi and the Dalai Lama--among many >others--have >lit the torch for us to follow. Let us walk in their footsteps--as >our own >circumstances allow and engender--and work together toward the only >peace >this planet can effectively experience: the transformation of behavior >and >the performance of enlightenment. http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucemrg.htm http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucsong.htm m(_ _)m _ _________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 1999 Report Share Posted June 5, 1999 Bruce-- One good viewpoint deserves another. I can dig it. Madhya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 1999 Report Share Posted June 5, 1999 On Fri, 04 Jun 1999 21:30:20 -0700 "Madhya Nandi" <madhya writes: >"Madhya Nandi" <madhya > >Bruce-- > > >One good viewpoint deserves another. > >I can dig it. > Most joyously dug! The appreciation is mutual. It is purely wondrous that Harshacharya has created a satsangh where a dedicated yogini and an accidental spiritual anarchist can discover the most profound possible commonality while respecting the divergent courses of life that preceded their meeting on the holy ground of being. Baba Nam Kevalem. > >Madhya > Much love -- Bruce http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucemrg.htm http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucsong.htm m(_ _)m _ _________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 1999 Report Share Posted June 5, 1999 If my therapy practice has been any indicator, lots of people, maybe even the majority, have had glimpses of truth. The transformation seems to be about recognizing what one has seen and learning how to see all the time. I happen to believe the transformation is propelled by grace as well. The effort, at least for me, has been in surrender. Holly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 1999 Report Share Posted June 5, 1999 "Holly N. Barrett, Ph.D." wrote: > If my therapy practice has been any indicator, lots of people, maybe > even the majority, have had glimpses of truth. I somehow sense that the type of person who seeks professional help would represent a class of folk who are more prone to 'glimpses'. Perhaps it is the 'glimpses' that cause the conflict leading to the urge to seek help? (integrate) > The transformation seems to be about recognizing what one has seen and > learning how to see > all the time. I think we all too often glamorize mystical experience, if that is indeed what you are referring to. There are those who never have experienced so-called mystical states yet with their kindness & humility have teach what spiritual maturity is truly about. > I happen to believe the transformation is propelled by > grace as well. Ultimately that's all there is. > The effort, at least for me, has been in surrender. The struggle with the love for struggle. Struggle Gracefully, David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 1999 Report Share Posted June 5, 1999 You wrote: > >DAVID BOZZI <david.bozzi > >"Holly N. Barrett, Ph.D." wrote: > >> If my therapy practice has been any indicator, lots of people, maybe >> even the majority, have had glimpses of truth. > >I somehow sense that the type of person who seeks professional help would >represent >a class of folk who are more prone to 'glimpses'. Perhaps it is the >'glimpses' that cause >the conflict leading to the urge to seek help? (integrate) You're absolutely right about this. Those who fit well and excel in the pedestrian world don't tend to come into therapy until midlife when the whisper of mortality throws them into panic. > >I think we all too often glamorize mystical experience, if that is indeed >what you are referring to. Yes, I agree. I don't believe Grace is stingy with opportunities to wake up, we just disbelieve our experience. Your good point about spiritually mature non-mystics reminds me of the Jewish midrash of the 36 righteous people who are on earth at any give time to keep the universe intact -- any one of us could be one and not know it. Holly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.