Guest guest Posted June 8, 1999 Report Share Posted June 8, 1999 Namaste Brothers and Sisters, Chris,et al. As we well know the world is just an appearance on the Self, projected by the Self. So bearing this in mind we must see the Atma in all beings and act appropriately. There Are duties to perform, which in itself relieves us from some decision making. So if your Dharma and duty to family and children is still unfulfilled it is necessary to complete it. However some things just cannot be fixed, and discrimination is required to distinguish between attachment and Love. the ultimate answer is saranagathi, surrender at the feet of the Lord and leave all to him. How can one rewrite the play after it is started? Adwaita can only be realised on Moksha, or at least Samadhi, all else is an illusion. Sankara did say it is real whilst you are in it,,,Chant Govinda! Love Tony, I speak from my own experience. === Keep on truckin-Chant the Gayatri! "God is formless. In order to merge in the formless God, you have to give up identification with the body." "There is only one Soul and that is God." Sai Baba. _______ Get your free @ address at Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 1999 Report Share Posted June 8, 1999 At 01:29 PM 6/8/99 -0700, Tony O'Clery wrote: Later in your message, you say: >How can one rewrite the play after it is started? This is the answer to all your other questions. Because everything is part of the play: whether duties are performed, whether anything gets fixed, whether surrender happens. Even this mail message is part of the play. Any recommendations, requirements, prescriptions, accomplishments, Samadhi, etc. are all part of the play. Nisargadatta Maharaj used to speak of us as food in the stomach, and said that the food can't change course once it's in the digestive tract (something to that effect).... > There Are duties to perform, which in >itself relieves us from some decision making. So if your Dharma and >duty to family and children is still unfulfilled it is necessary to >complete it. However some things just cannot be fixed, and >discrimination is required to distinguish between attachment and Love. > >the ultimate answer is saranagathi, surrender at the feet of the Lord >and leave all to him. How can one rewrite the play after it is started? > Adwaita can only be realised on Moksha, or at least Samadhi, all else >is an illusion. Sankara did say it is real whilst you are in it,,,Chant >Govinda! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 1999 Report Share Posted June 8, 1999 The message <19990608202925.28596.rocketmail from "Tony O'Clery" <aoclery contains these words: > Tony O'Clery <aoclery Dear as allways I appreciate your thoughts and am aware that I am an actor in His play I only wish I had a chance to read the script before I launched forth on to the stage. I appreciate that I probably had a hand in the writing of my part then promptly forgot. Speaking of which, where is my prompter lest I forget my part in the final act? Smiling broadway. i call for the understudy. Chris Sai Ram > Namaste Brothers and Sisters, Chris,et al. > As we well know the world is just an appearance on the Self, projected > by the Self. So bearing this in mind we must see the Atma in all > beings and act appropriately. There Are duties to perform, which in > itself relieves us from some decision making. So if your Dharma and > duty to family and children is still unfulfilled it is necessary to > complete it. However some things just cannot be fixed, and > discrimination is required to distinguish between attachment and Love. > the ultimate answer is saranagathi, surrender at the feet of the Lord > and leave all to him. How can one rewrite the play after it is started? > Adwaita can only be realised on Moksha, or at least Samadhi, all else > is an illusion. Sankara did say it is real whilst you are in it,,,Chant > Govinda! > Love Tony, I speak from my own experience. > === > Keep on truckin-Chant the Gayatri! > "God is formless. In order to merge in the formless God, > you have to give up identification with the body." > "There is only one Soul and that is God." Sai Baba. > _______ > > Get your free @ address at > ------ > What do lizards and rock music have in common? > > They both have communities at ONElist. Find yours today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 1999 Report Share Posted June 8, 1999 > Tony O'Clery <aoclery [...] > the ultimate answer is saranagathi, surrender at the feet of the Lord > and leave all to him. How can one rewrite the play after it is started? > Adwaita can only be realised on Moksha, or at least Samadhi, all else > is an illusion. Sankara did say it is real whilst you are in it,,,Chant > Govinda! [...] There is nothing to rewrite; rather, there is to extricate. Perception has an unconscious part that could be called automatic recorder. So all impressions are present, like the knowledge that there is no self (as being distinct from world and other selves), that self is "forced" upon one by the merciless instincts or basic feelings and one ends up identifying with and interpreting these instincts or basic feelings as something to will or to desire; this starts up the endless score of desires. If one had to put up with everything unknowingly acquired and nothing would happen, it would be impossible to ever "arrive" at Moksha. The automatic recorder noted down everything and without that, how would it be possible to recognize one's real nature? By putting up with what has been unknowingly acquired, one will be faced with the "original" feeling that caused the conditioning/automatic response; quite a lot will happen when this "deconditioning" becomes a process (Kundalini) that will even consume "virtues" and eventually this process will burn itself out, leaving absolute freedom (Moksha) linked to a living body without desire or passion. Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2002 Report Share Posted February 20, 2002 l am faced with a very difficult situation here, and l'd like feedback from anyone who feels they have something worth sharing. ln a nutshell, my energy system has grown so sensitive in recent days that l'm now apprehensive about even answering my door, my phone or leaving my home. When l returned to this list a few months ago l described how my system had become more wired and sensitive ever since getting acupuncture a year ago, and that as a result l'd asked the monks to leave here in November. Things seemed to be improving until l let a woman stay upstairs around xmas. l knew she did spiritual practice but didn't think her energy was enough to cause a problem. After 4 days l knew otherwise and had her leave by the next day (after giving her a large check), but by then the effect had taken root. Ever since then, for 2 months, l've suffered from debilitating GI gas attacks around the clock, making it extremely difficult to eat or sleep. My feeling has been that my energy system is overstimulated and that what it needs is time to cool down. The problem is, l keep having random encounters that only increase the energy rather than the reverse -- as time goes it seems to take less and less to stimulate it. And with regard to 2 most recent events this week l'm not even sure the other people had spiritual energy (so called). Dear friend Jill from the list called me over 2 weeks ago in order to try to be of help, but we both realized on the phone that we could feel each other's energy, and as a result my symptoms were exacerbated, which made me realize that phone contact could be risky for me. Jill, if you're reading this, take comfort in the fact that it was getting better last week when l had another encounter that made things worse again. (l haven't emailed you directly out of concern that even emails from you might stimulate things, altho l'm not nearly as concerned about that as other things.) Twice in the last 4 days l've had random, minimal encounters with men that have made my system go bonkers. The most recent and strongest was yesterday when l was getting a haircut. A guy walked into the barbershop, and the reaction was so strong that l told the barber l was feeling sick, paid him and walked out, even though he wasn't finished. With both this guy and another guy on Friday, l don't know anything about them, whether they had strong spiritual energy from meditation, etc or whether it was something else that caused the reactions. lt's getting to the point where just going anyplace where there are people stimulates the energy and feels like a risky venture in which l pray l don't run into anyone that triggers a major reaction like the two l've just had. l don't know what the effect of these recent encounters will be on my system, beyond the havoc l've felt so far, but if history is any guide the debilitating effects could last for a long time. So l'm feeling very confused and apprehensive about this. Do l have to virtually seal myself off, not answering the phone or the door to strangers, hiring someone to go out and buy groceries for me, hoping that at some point in the future it will be safe to leave here and reconnect with the outside world? l told someone the other day that l'm likely headed for either a breakthrough or a final demise, or both. But that probly won't happen either. l'm not optimistic that there's anything l can actually *do*, but l thought someone on the list might have insight into this based on past experience. love, jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2002 Report Share Posted February 20, 2002 Hi Jerry, Once i came across a Rosicrucian writing, stating that active K. and acupuncture treatments are a recipe for disaster, with the potential to disrupt the chakra system. It was meant as a serious warning as no knowledge regarding curing was (is?) known. I don't know if that applies to you, as obviously the warning is for those where K. awakening is the first sign of 'awakening'. When K. is secondary, after apperception, no harm can be done. Peace, Jan On 2/20/02 at 5:47 PM GCWein1111 (AT) aol (DOT) com wrote: Dear Harsha and Friends, l am faced with a very difficult situation here, and l'd like feedback from anyone who feels they have something worth sharing. ln a nutshell, my energy system has grown so sensitive in recent days that l'm now apprehensive about even answering my door, my phone or leaving my home. When l returned to this list a few months ago l described how my system had become more wired and sensitive ever since getting acupuncture a year ago, and that as a result l'd asked the monks to leave here in November. Things seemed to be improving until l let a woman stay upstairs around xmas. l knew she did spiritual practice but didn't think her energy was enough to cause a problem. After 4 days l knew otherwise and had her leave by the next day (after giving her a large check), but by then the effect had taken root. Ever since then, for 2 months, l've suffered from debilitating GI gas attacks around the clock, making it extremely difficult to eat or sleep. My feeling has been that my energy system is overstimulated and that what it needs is time to cool down. The problem is, l keep having random encounters that only increase the energy rather than the reverse -- as time goes it seems to take less and less to stimulate it. And with regard to 2 most recent events this week l'm not even sure the other people had spiritual energy (so called). Dear friend Jill from the list called me over 2 weeks ago in order to try to be of help, but we both realized on the phone that we could feel each other's energy, and as a result my symptoms were exacerbated, which made me realize that phone contact could be risky for me. Jill, if you're reading this, take comfort in the fact that it was getting better last week when l had another encounter that made things worse again. (l haven't emailed you directly out of concern that even emails from you might stimulate things, altho l'm not nearly as concerned about that as other things.) Twice in the last 4 days l've had random, minimal encounters with men that have made my system go bonkers. The most recent and strongest was yesterday when l was getting a haircut. A guy walked into the barbershop, and the reaction was so strong that l told the barber l was feeling sick, paid him and walked out, even though he wasn't finished. With both this guy and another guy on Friday, l don't know anything about them, whether they had strong spiritual energy from meditation, etc or whether it was something else that caused the reactions. lt's getting to the point where just going anyplace where there are people stimulates the energy and feels like a risky venture in which l pray l don't run into anyone that triggers a major reaction like the two l've just had. l don't know what the effect of these recent encounters will be on my system, beyond the havoc l've felt so far, but if history is any guide the debilitating effects could last for a long time. So l'm feeling very confused and apprehensive about this. Do l have to virtually seal myself off, not answering the phone or the door to strangers, hiring someone to go out and buy groceries for me, hoping that at some point in the future it will be safe to leave here and reconnect with the outside world? l told someone the other day that l'm likely headed for either a breakthrough or a final demise, or both. But that probly won't happen either. l'm not optimistic that there's anything l can actually *do*, but l thought someone on the list might have insight into this based on past experience. love, jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2002 Report Share Posted February 20, 2002 10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue;font-weight:bold">Dear Jerry, Tahoma;color:blue;font-weight:bold"> Tahoma;color:blue;font-weight:bold">I am really sorry to hear what you are going through and feel at a loss on what to say. It seems like when the energy is stimulated (for whatever reason), you do not feel well and perhaps a sense of anxiety and panic overcomes you and you feel you have to leave the situation immediately to get relief. Anxiety and panic affect the energy and vice versa and it can become a circle. Tahoma;color:blue;font-weight:bold"> Tahoma;color:blue;font-weight:bold">One natural method that some use is to simply stay with the unpleasant feeling and gradually increase the time of staying with that feeling of panic. I am not a psychologist but there is an actual name for that technique. Tahoma;color:blue;font-weight:bold"> Tahoma;color:blue;font-weight:bold">Perhaps you can describe the symptoms in more detail. Tahoma;color:blue;font-weight:bold"> Tahoma;color:blue;font-weight:bold">Although I don’t know what to advise you, I send you my love and friendship. Tahoma;color:blue;font-weight:bold"> Tahoma;color:blue;font-weight:bold">Love Tahoma;color:blue;font-weight:bold">Harsha Tahoma;color:blue;font-weight:bold"> -----Original Message----- GCWein1111 (AT) aol (DOT) com [GCWein1111 (AT) aol (DOT) com] Wednesday, February 20, 2002 5:47 PM Re: What To Do? Dear Harsha and Friends, l am faced with a very difficult situation here, and l'd like feedback from anyone who feels they have something worth sharing. ln a nutshell, my energy system has grown so sensitive in recent days that l'm now apprehensive about even answering my door, my phone or leaving my home. When l returned to this list a few months ago l described how my system had become more wired and sensitive ever since getting acupuncture a year ago, and that as a result l'd asked the monks to leave here in November. Things seemed to be improving until l let a woman stay upstairs around xmas. l knew she did spiritual practice but didn't think her energy was enough to cause a problem. After 4 days l knew otherwise and had her leave by the next day (after giving her a large check), but by then the effect had taken root. Ever since then, for 2 months, l've suffered from debilitating GI gas attacks around the clock, making it extremely difficult to eat or sleep. My feeling has been that my energy system is overstimulated and that what it needs is time to cool down. The problem is, l keep having random encounters that only increase the energy rather than the reverse -- as time goes it seems to take less and less to stimulate it. And with regard to 2 most recent events this week l'm not even sure the other people had spiritual energy (so called). Dear friend Jill from the list called me over 2 weeks ago in order to try to be of help, but we both realized on the phone that we could feel each other's energy, and as a result my symptoms were exacerbated, which made me realize that phone contact could be risky for me. Jill, if you're reading this, take comfort in the fact that it was getting better last week when l had another encounter that made things worse again. (l haven't emailed you directly out of concern that even emails from you might stimulate things, altho l'm not nearly as concerned about that as other things.) Twice in the last 4 days l've had random, minimal encounters with men that have made my system go bonkers. The most recent and strongest was yesterday when l was getting a haircut. A guy walked into the barbershop, and the reaction was so strong that l told the barber l was feeling sick, paid him and walked out, even though he wasn't finished. With both this guy and another guy on Friday, l don't know anything about them, whether they had strong spiritual energy from meditation, etc or whether it was something else that caused the reactions. lt's getting to the point where just going anyplace where there are people stimulates the energy and feels like a risky venture in which l pray l don't run into anyone that triggers a major reaction like the two l've just had. l don't know what the effect of these recent encounters will be on my system, beyond the havoc l've felt so far, but if history is any guide the debilitating effects could last for a long time. So l'm feeling very confused and apprehensive about this. Do l have to virtually seal myself off, not answering the phone or the door to strangers, hiring someone to go out and buy groceries for me, hoping that at some point in the future it will be safe to leave here and reconnect with the outside world? l told someone the other day that l'm likely headed for either a breakthrough or a final demise, or both. But that probly won't happen either. l'm not optimistic that there's anything l can actually *do*, but l thought someone on the list might have insight into this based on past experience. love, jerry yes"> mso-color-alt:windowtext"> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2002 Report Share Posted February 20, 2002 , GCWein1111@a... wrote: > Dear Harsha and Friends, Dear Jerry, Like all your friends here, I feel deeply for what you're going through. I have no answers that could help, just my love and concern for you. I read a book by Irena Tweedie called "Daughter of Fire," and she went through similar devastating experiences when K arose. She did something like Harshaji spoke of. She let it run the gamut with her. She had nothing to do, nowhere to go to alleviate the suffering, so she just endured, like you are, for a long, for a looong time. She felt she was dying, being burnt to a crisp. What a thing to go through! You are a brave and valiant pilgrim! I wonder why some go through such devastation and others, like Jan, do not. What's the deal with that? I have a strange occurence that happens to me whenever I see someone get physically or emotionally wounded. My spine feels like it's splitting open with fire. It's excruciating. Thank God it lifts within a minute of happening. Dear Jerrysan, if only you could shift it to all your friends to share with you. Perhaps in some small measure you are by sharing it with us here. I feel for you and hope that soon, someway this finds a lifting into freedom from having to endure something so difficult. Peace to you my friend. Love, Mazie > > l am faced with a very difficult situation here, and l'd like feedback > from anyone who feels they have something worth sharing. ln a nutshell, my > energy system has grown so sensitive in recent days that l'm now apprehensive > about even answering my door, my phone or leaving my home. > > When l returned to this list a few months ago l described how my system > had become more wired and sensitive ever since getting acupuncture a year > ago, and that as a result l'd asked the monks to leave here in November. > Things seemed to be improving until l let a woman stay upstairs around xmas. > l knew she did spiritual practice but didn't think her energy was enough to > cause a problem. After 4 days l knew otherwise and had her leave by the next > day (after giving her a large check), but by then the effect had taken root. > Ever since then, for 2 months, l've suffered from debilitating GI gas attacks > around the clock, making it extremely difficult to eat or sleep. > > My feeling has been that my energy system is overstimulated and that > what it needs is time to cool down. The problem is, l keep having random > encounters that only increase the energy rather than the reverse -- as time > goes it seems to take less and less to stimulate it. And with regard to 2 > most recent events this week l'm not even sure the other people had spiritual > energy (so called). > > Dear friend Jill from the list called me over 2 weeks ago in order to > try to be of help, but we both realized on the phone that we could feel each > other's energy, and as a result my symptoms were exacerbated, which made me > realize that phone contact could be risky for me. Jill, if you're reading > this, take comfort in the fact that it was getting better last week when l > had another encounter that made things worse again. (l haven't emailed you > directly out of concern that even emails from you might stimulate things, > altho l'm not nearly as concerned about that as other things.) > > Twice in the last 4 days l've had random, minimal encounters with men > that have made my system go bonkers. The most recent and strongest was > yesterday when l was getting a haircut. A guy walked into the barbershop, and > the reaction was so strong that l told the barber l was feeling sick, paid > him and walked out, even though he wasn't finished. With both this guy and > another guy on Friday, l don't know anything about them, whether they had > strong spiritual energy from meditation, etc or whether it was something else > that caused the reactions. lt's getting to the point where just going > anyplace where there are people stimulates the energy and feels like a risky > venture in which l pray l don't run into anyone that triggers a major > reaction like the two l've just had. > > l don't know what the effect of these recent encounters will be on my > system, beyond the havoc l've felt so far, but if history is any guide the > debilitating effects could last for a long time. > > So l'm feeling very confused and apprehensive about this. Do l have > to virtually seal myself off, not answering the phone or the door to > strangers, hiring someone to go out and buy groceries for me, hoping that at > some point in the future it will be safe to leave here and reconnect with the > outside world? l told someone the other day that l'm likely headed for > either a breakthrough or a final demise, or both. But that probly won't > happen either. l'm not optimistic that there's anything l can actually *do*, > but l thought someone on the list might have insight into this based on past > experience. > > love, > jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2002 Report Share Posted February 20, 2002 Harsha wrote: 0 DocumentEmail 10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue;font-weight:bold">Dear Jerry, Tahoma;color:blue;font-weight:bold"> Tahoma;color:blue;font-weight:bold">I am really sorry to hear what you are going through and feel at a loss on what to say. It seems like when the energy is stimulated (for whatever reason), you do not feel well and perhaps a sense of anxiety and panic overcomes you and you feel you have to leave the situation immediately to get relief. Anxiety and panic affect the energy and vice versa and it can become a circle. Tahoma;color:blue;font-weight:bold"> Tahoma;color:blue;font-weight:bold">One natural method that some use is to simply stay with the unpleasant feeling and gradually increase the time of staying with that feeling of panic. I am not a psychologist but there is an actual name for that technique. Tahoma;color:blue;font-weight:bold"> Tahoma;color:blue;font-weight:bold">Perhaps you can describe the symptoms in more detail. Tahoma;color:blue;font-weight:bold"> Tahoma;color:blue;font-weight:bold">Although I don’t know what to advise you, I send you my love and friendship. Tahoma;color:blue;font-weight:bold"> Tahoma;color:blue;font-weight:bold">Love Tahoma;color:blue;font-weight:bold">Harsha Harsha, Jerry sounds like he's in a lot of pain, pardon my ignorance but what is kundalini and how does it cause this. Sounds like something to be avoided at all costs. Thanks Mace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2002 Report Share Posted February 20, 2002 Dear Mazie, There is a simple reason why i didn't have any problems with K., but instead, lots of joy and laughter. I wasn't a seeker and unfamiliar with anything spiritual. When i caused an action to fail, the realization dawned that not only i was to blame for that, but that there was nothing giving unconditional happiness, just fleeting pleasures and their inseparable mates, pains. So the decision to leave life was easy but i was restored to it, much to my dismay as it interrupted an NDE of the most sublime peace i (at that time) had met. That knowledge, plus the results of the reflections leading to the decision to leave life, by themselves caused a deconditioning resulting in apperception. Not having been 'filled up' by belief systems made it awesome. Reflecting deeply on the incomprehensibility of the event hence ignoring interfering feelings, led to a K. awakening. Knowing to have taken leave of life already, transformed whatever could be interpreted as 'scary' as if by magic into entertainment, causing roars of laughter. Hence, no 'blocks' whatsoever to the life-force. Only much later i came across the Kathopanishad which was a nice summary of the essentials: apperception (Self-realization) first, then the sacred fire (K.): The 2 essential boons bestowed by Lord Yama, and the sequence matters a lot. Love, Jan On 2/21/02 at 2:35 AM mazie_l wrote: º, GCWein1111@a... wrote: º> Dear Harsha and Friends, º ºDear Jerry, º ºLike all your friends here, I feel deeply for what you're going ºthrough. I have no answers that could help, just my love and concern ºfor you. I read a book by Irena Tweedie called "Daughter of Fire," ºand she went through similar devastating experiences when K arose. ºShe did something like Harshaji spoke of. She let it run the gamut ºwith her. She had nothing to do, nowhere to go to alleviate the ºsuffering, so she just endured, like you are, for a long, for a ºlooong time. She felt she was dying, being burnt to a crisp. What a ºthing to go through! You are a brave and valiant pilgrim! I wonder ºwhy some go through such devastation and others, like Jan, do not. ºWhat's the deal with that? I have a strange occurence that happens to ºme whenever I see someone get physically or emotionally wounded. My ºspine feels like it's splitting open with fire. It's excruciating. ºThank God it lifts within a minute of happening. Dear Jerrysan, if ºonly you could shift it to all your friends to share with you. ºPerhaps in some small measure you are by sharing it with us here. ºI feel for you and hope that soon, someway this finds a lifting into ºfreedom from having to endure something so difficult. Peace to you my ºfriend. º ºLove, ºMazie º º> º> l am faced with a very difficult situation here, and l'd like ºfeedback º> from anyone who feels they have something worth sharing. ln a ºnutshell, my º> energy system has grown so sensitive in recent days that l'm now ºapprehensive º> about even answering my door, my phone or leaving my home. º> º> When l returned to this list a few months ago l described how ºmy system º> had become more wired and sensitive ever since getting acupuncture ºa year º> ago, and that as a result l'd asked the monks to leave here in ºNovember. º> Things seemed to be improving until l let a woman stay upstairs ºaround xmas. º> l knew she did spiritual practice but didn't think her energy was ºenough to º> cause a problem. After 4 days l knew otherwise and had her leave by ºthe next º> day (after giving her a large check), but by then the effect had ºtaken root. º> Ever since then, for 2 months, l've suffered from debilitating GI ºgas attacks º> around the clock, making it extremely difficult to eat or sleep. º> º> My feeling has been that my energy system is overstimulated ºand that º> what it needs is time to cool down. The problem is, l keep having ºrandom º> encounters that only increase the energy rather than the reverse -- ºas time º> goes it seems to take less and less to stimulate it. And with ºregard to 2 º> most recent events this week l'm not even sure the other people had ºspiritual º> energy (so called). º> º> Dear friend Jill from the list called me over 2 weeks ago in ºorder to º> try to be of help, but we both realized on the phone that we could ºfeel each º> other's energy, and as a result my symptoms were exacerbated, which ºmade me º> realize that phone contact could be risky for me. Jill, if you're ºreading º> this, take comfort in the fact that it was getting better last week ºwhen l º> had another encounter that made things worse again. (l haven't ºemailed you º> directly out of concern that even emails from you might stimulate ºthings, º> altho l'm not nearly as concerned about that as other things.) º> º> Twice in the last 4 days l've had random, minimal encounters ºwith men º> that have made my system go bonkers. The most recent and strongest ºwas º> yesterday when l was getting a haircut. A guy walked into the ºbarbershop, and º> the reaction was so strong that l told the barber l was feeling ºsick, paid º> him and walked out, even though he wasn't finished. With both this ºguy and º> another guy on Friday, l don't know anything about them, whether ºthey had º> strong spiritual energy from meditation, etc or whether it was ºsomething else º> that caused the reactions. lt's getting to the point where just ºgoing º> anyplace where there are people stimulates the energy and feels ºlike a risky º> venture in which l pray l don't run into anyone that triggers a ºmajor º> reaction like the two l've just had. º> º> l don't know what the effect of these recent encounters will ºbe on my º> system, beyond the havoc l've felt so far, but if history is any ºguide the º> debilitating effects could last for a long time. º> º> So l'm feeling very confused and apprehensive about this. ºDo l have º> to virtually seal myself off, not answering the phone or the door ºto º> strangers, hiring someone to go out and buy groceries for me, ºhoping that at º> some point in the future it will be safe to leave here and ºreconnect with the º> outside world? l told someone the other day that l'm likely headed ºfor º> either a breakthrough or a final demise, or both. But that probly ºwon't º> happen either. l'm not optimistic that there's anything l can ºactually *do*, º> but l thought someone on the list might have insight into this ºbased on past º> experience. º> º> love, º> jerry º º º º/join º º º º º ºAll paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, ºperceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and ºsubside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not ºdifferent than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the ºnature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. ºIt is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the ºFinality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of ºSelf-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome ºall to a. º º º ºYour use of is subject to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2002 Report Share Posted February 21, 2002 Dear Jerry: This problem of yours sounds quite devastating. But it sounds like a reaction of the body-mind. It may be possible to use a form of self hypnosis to conquer the symptoms. I am not a clinician but I do have personal experience in eliminating unwanted tendencies in myself. If you are interested this is one of the techniques I use. What I do is dwell in my heart and bring to mind the experience or feeling that I want to eliminate. I visualize pulling it from my being with great deliberation, force, and thoroughness, pulling out all its tentacles, balling it up, and hurling it with every ounce of emotionally energy I have (sometimes grunting or yelling when I throw it). It breaks out of the earth's gravitational pull, out into the solar system where I imagine it to whip around the planets to pick up momentum getting faster and faster until my attention cannot handle the stress and I focus tightly on it as it shoots into the sun. It explodes and an enormous wind from the explosion passes through me blowing the residual ash of the tendency out of me. A sigh comes when this is completed. Then I mentally recall the thing I just destroyed and believe that it is gone. Then I forget about it (this is crucial to believing it is gone). The main ingredient is to believe it works. Believe that the tendency is gone and forget about it. If the fear it will happen again comes back do the technique again. It takes me about five minutes to do it each time. For me it operates like magic. If it holds off the attack at all the first time it will probably work better the next and so on. If it is possible to do this or something similar at the onset of the feeling, the successful completion of the technique will overcome whatever reaction your system was about to have. I used this to erase great fatigue, and eliminate samskaras. I never tried to eliminate disease or physical illness. I wish I could tell you how much this has helped me in the last three years. I suppose the technique came out of my belief that in the mental world what one REALLY believes is happening to oneself is what happens. I have enjoyed your posts greatly since you came back to this list. Take care and get well. Love, Bobby G. > Dear Harsha and Friends, > > l am faced with a very difficult situation here, and l'd like feedback > from anyone who feels they have something worth sharing. ln a nutshell, my > energy system has grown so sensitive in recent days that l'm now apprehensive > about even answering my door, my phone or leaving my home. > > When l returned to this list a few months ago l described how my system > had become more wired and sensitive ever since getting acupuncture a year > ago, and that as a result l'd asked the monks to leave here in November. > Things seemed to be improving until l let a woman stay upstairs around xmas. > l knew she did spiritual practice but didn't think her energy was enough to > cause a problem. After 4 days l knew otherwise and had her leave by the next > day (after giving her a large check), but by then the effect had taken root. > Ever since then, for 2 months, l've suffered from debilitating GI gas attacks > around the clock, making it extremely difficult to eat or sleep. > > My feeling has been that my energy system is overstimulated and that > what it needs is time to cool down. The problem is, l keep having random > encounters that only increase the energy rather than the reverse -- as time > goes it seems to take less and less to stimulate it. And with regard to 2 > most recent events this week l'm not even sure the other people had spiritual > energy (so called). > > Dear friend Jill from the list called me over 2 weeks ago in order to > try to be of help, but we both realized on the phone that we could feel each > other's energy, and as a result my symptoms were exacerbated, which made me > realize that phone contact could be risky for me. Jill, if you're reading > this, take comfort in the fact that it was getting better last week when l > had another encounter that made things worse again. (l haven't emailed you > directly out of concern that even emails from you might stimulate things, > altho l'm not nearly as concerned about that as other things.) > > Twice in the last 4 days l've had random, minimal encounters with men > that have made my system go bonkers. The most recent and strongest was > yesterday when l was getting a haircut. A guy walked into the barbershop, and > the reaction was so strong that l told the barber l was feeling sick, paid > him and walked out, even though he wasn't finished. With both this guy and > another guy on Friday, l don't know anything about them, whether they had > strong spiritual energy from meditation, etc or whether it was something else > that caused the reactions. lt's getting to the point where just going > anyplace where there are people stimulates the energy and feels like a risky > venture in which l pray l don't run into anyone that triggers a major > reaction like the two l've just had. > > l don't know what the effect of these recent encounters will be on my > system, beyond the havoc l've felt so far, but if history is any guide the > debilitating effects could last for a long time. > > So l'm feeling very confused and apprehensive about this. Do l have > to virtually seal myself off, not answering the phone or the door to > strangers, hiring someone to go out and buy groceries for me, hoping that at > some point in the future it will be safe to leave here and reconnect with the > outside world? l told someone the other day that l'm likely headed for > either a breakthrough or a final demise, or both. But that probly won't > happen either. l'm not optimistic that there's anything l can actually *do*, > but l thought someone on the list might have insight into this based on past > experience. > > love, > jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2002 Report Share Posted February 21, 2002 Once i came across a Rosicrucian writing, stating that active K. and acupuncture treatments are a recipe for disaster, with the potential to disrupt the chakra system. Hi Jan, Why is it we always get these warnings when it's too late? God knows, my reaction so far qualifies as a huge disaster -- total disruption of the chakra system sounds like what's happened -- but l'm still hoping it's something else. l think it depends a great deal on the skill of the acupuncturist and on what is done. l'd had acupuncture previously with very little effect, but the guy last year stuck needles in everywhere, much more than l'd expected, which made me feel uneasy from the beginning. l realized afterward that this guy didn't have nearly enough skill to work with someone in my situation. l needed some Chinese master , not a western neophyte. love, jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2002 Report Share Posted February 21, 2002 Jerry -- I, too, feel so sad that you have to go through this and somewhat helpless to give you any advice because I know how many avenues you've already tried. On the outside chance you haven't gone this route, you might consider seeing a specialist in environmental medicine. These physicians are experts on how the body attempts to defend itself against external toxins (including food), often to the great misery of the owner of the body. They are extremely knowledgeable about both the immune system and about the gastrointestinal system (especially good vs. bad bacteria) and often have good results with intractable problems like CFS and autoimmune diseases where other forms of medicine fail. I saw such a specialist in Santa Fe who helped me enormously with life-long arthritis and I could give you his name if you like -- he'd likely know somebody in your area. Love, Holly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2002 Report Share Posted February 21, 2002 , "texasbg2000" <bgbbyg@a...> wrote: > I wish I could tell you how much this has helped me in the last > three years. I suppose the technique came out of my belief that in > the mental world what one REALLY believes is happening to oneself > is what happens. That's true -- and also why, when (through surrender) beliefs drop off, "nothing is happening" anymore. "Oneself" is also a belief, the "external" world is a collection of beliefs and imaginings. It isn't possible to "get rid of" beliefs -- and disbelief isn't the answer either :-). Beyond that is surrender, the 'golden key'. No hope or hopelessness required. Namaste, Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2002 Report Share Posted February 21, 2002 Dear Jerry: This problem of yours sounds quite devastating. But it sounds like a reaction of the body-mind. It may be possible to use a form of self hypnosis to conquer the symptoms. Dear Bobby G, Thank you for your comments and best wishes. Your technique sounds quite extraordinary and it's wonderful that you've been able to use it so successfully. Regarding my situation, l do not feel that it is a body- mind reaction, but rather that it is very much an energy thing that is having consequences in the body. l also don't believe there's anything that can be done with the conscious mind to correct it. ln addition to my own experience, l've had this confirmed to me by highly gifted teachers, intuitives and healers whose opinions l respect. l also am extremely cautious and limited in performing any kind of visualization or exercise, as these invariably have the effect of overly stimulating the energy. l may keep your post anyway, as your technique could be useful in the future for other purposes. love, jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2002 Report Share Posted February 21, 2002 Jerry -- I, too, feel so sad that you have to go through this and somewhat helpless to give you any advice because I know how many avenues you've already tried. On the outside chance you haven't gone this route, you might consider seeing a specialist in environmental medicine. These physicians are experts on how the body attempts to defend itself against external toxins (including food), often to the great misery of the owner of the body. They are extremely knowledgeable about both the immune system and about the gastrointestinal system (especially good vs. bad bacteria) and often have good results with intractable problems like CFS and autoimmune diseases where other forms of medicine fail. I saw such a specialist in Santa Fe who helped me enormously with life-long arthritis and I could give you his name if you like -- he'd likely know somebody in your area. Love, Holly Hi Holly, Thank you so much for your expression of concern. Doubt if l'll consult an environmental specialist though. Don't be offended. First, l just don't think it is relevant to my problem. Equally important, in recent years l've avoided doctors like the plague. lt never used to be that way -- l come from a family of doctors and nearly became one myself. But my situation is so off the chart now that, as you know, very few doctors could begin to fathom any of it. The other thing is that the energy has changed my system such that there is hardly any drug or medicine l can take anymore, and without drugs doctors are usually left with nothing to do. Fortunately, my best friend here is a doctor (he and l went through premed together eons ago) -- he's been so helpful, just being there and giving me feedback and advice every time l think l'm about to die from this shit. He agrees l have no business seeing a doctor. The guy who performed the acupuncture on me last year was himself an excellent doctor -- he also told me l shouldn't go near a doctor, but then he also told me he could help me with acupuncture..... Like you said, l've tried so many things. And virtually every single one of them only made me worse. lt is helpful to hear words of support from you and the others. love, jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2002 Report Share Posted February 21, 2002 Dear Tim: >"Oneself" is also a belief, > the "external" world is a collection of beliefs and imaginings. Exactly. That would be the observer and the observed. As "Oneself" is a belief the act of observing must be a belief. It is the interactions of the beliefs that can be dealt with in the mind by the belief that it can be done. The belief it can't be done is self defeating. > > It isn't possible to "get rid of" beliefs -- and disbelief isn't the answer either :-). This shoots a hole in religion AND atheism. >Beyond that is surrender, the 'golden key'. No hope or hopelessness required. The grace is always there for surrender. I wonder if the referent for the word surrender is understood at the moment of surrender. > Namaste, > Tim Love Bobby G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2002 Report Share Posted February 21, 2002 Dear Jerrysan, I am so sorry that you have to suffer so much. Like all of the other friends here, I would love to help, but unfortunately I do not feel really qualified to give any advice because I have never had any such problems with K. All I can do is tell you about some of the traditions of my own path; perhaps you might find at least some of it helpful. Paramahansa Yogananda placed great importance on a healthful and vegetarian diet. He spoke highly of the vibratory power of raw food such as spinach leaves, fruits, nuts, avocados, etc., and said that yogis would find a raw food diet beneficial, and should follow it religiously. He used to say that the nerves must be strong and healthy to stand the divine currents, or else there would be a severe danger of burnout. The "Energization Exercises" and some breathing exercises he taught also serve that same purpose. One other point that is stressed on the Kriya path - the divine currents have to run in the proper channels. They can do much harm when they don't. You have probably read Gopi Krishna's books where this phenomenon is described. Some of his symptoms were quite similar to yours. Here is something you might try - many times a day, if found helpful. Take an ice cube, hold it with a pair of tongs or a thick glove, and run that ice cube from the base of the spine, along your spine and skull, over the forehead to the point between the eyebrows. Repeat several times. This might help to keep the energy in check. Lastly, there is the power of prayer. As you are no doubt aware, devotion and love for God raises the vibrations of the nadis and chakras to a higher level, making them better able to withstand these energies. Well, dear Jerrysan, that's all I can think of at the moment. My prayers and sincerest good wishes for you well-being go to you. In loving friendship, Michael Hi Michael, Thank you for these comments which are sincerely appreciated. After a long, difficult and frustrating journey on the k path, l have been forced to conclude there is no such thing as an expert whose advice is appropriate for everyone, so you're in good company. Your modesty does you credit. Because of the effect of the energy on my stomach for many years now, l have been forced to eat primarily cooked foods -- my system can't handle raw foods. But just to show you how opinions differ, a reknowned swami from Rishikesh who's supposed to be quite an expert on k told me years ago that the diet he prescribed for his k yogis consisted almost totally of cooked foods and he advised against a raw foods diet. l don't know who's right other than what has been appropriate for me. Aside from that, l've been on an extremely healthy vegetarian diet for 25 years now, although the effects of k have prevented me from following my former diet as l'd like to. l got a lengthy consultation with this swami, and overall his diagnosis made sense to me. He said l had a healthy rising through Sushumna -- that this had occurred in a past life and that l was born with a classic throat chakra blockage -- that the spiritual practice l did in my 40's activated the previously risen k. He said that l never would have had problems but for the fact that l'd gotten poor guidance from the teachers l'd seen, and he said that with time my problems should resolve themselves, so long as l avoided doing anything further to worsen the problem. Unfortunately, l think the acupuncture did just that. Thank you for your prayers. Light but fervent prayer is about all l feel l can do myself. love, jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2002 Report Share Posted February 21, 2002 fewtch wrote: > > , "texasbg2000" <bgbbyg@a...> wrote: > > > I wish I could tell you how much this has helped me in the last > > three years. I suppose the technique came out of my belief that in > > the mental world what one REALLY believes is happening to oneself > > is what happens. > > That's true -- and also why, when (through surrender) beliefs drop > off, "nothing is happening" anymore. "Oneself" is also a belief, > the "external" world is a collection of beliefs and imaginings. > > It isn't possible to "get rid of" beliefs -- and disbelief isn't the > answer either :-). Beyond that is surrender, the 'golden key'. No > hope or hopelessness required. > > Namaste, > > Tim > I don't remember who once said "reality is what doesn't go away when you stop believing in it." andrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2002 Report Share Posted February 21, 2002 On Thu, 21 Feb 2002 18:02:23 -0400 andrew macnab <a.macnab writes: > fewtch wrote: > > > > , "texasbg2000" <bgbbyg@a...> wrote: > > > > > I wish I could tell you how much this has helped me in the last > > > three years. I suppose the technique came out of my belief that > in > > > the mental world what one REALLY believes is happening to > oneself > > > is what happens. > > > > That's true -- and also why, when (through surrender) beliefs > drop > > off, "nothing is happening" anymore. "Oneself" is also a belief, > > the "external" world is a collection of beliefs and imaginings. > > > > It isn't possible to "get rid of" beliefs -- and disbelief isn't > the > > answer either :-). Beyond that is surrender, the 'golden key'. > No > > hope or hopelessness required. > > > > Namaste, > > > > Tim > > > > I don't remember who once said "reality is what doesn't go away when > you stop believing in it." > Eccentric science fiction genius Phillip K. Dick. Ironically, Dick was apparently mentally ill -- his personal demons never quite went away. R.I.P. http://come.to/realization http://www.atman.net/realization http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucemrg.htm http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucsong.htm ______________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2002 Report Share Posted February 21, 2002 On 2/21/02 at 12:17 PM GCWein1111 (AT) aol (DOT) com wrote: In a message dated 2/20/02 4:36:27 PM Pacific Standard Time, janb (AT) axarnet (DOT) com writes: Once i came across a Rosicrucian writing, stating that activeK. and acupuncture treatments are a recipe for disaster,with the potential to disrupt the chakra system. Hi Jan, Why is it we always get these warnings when it's too late? God knows, my reaction so far qualifies as a huge disaster -- total disruption of the chakra system sounds like what's happened -- but l'm still hoping it's something else. l think it depends a great deal on the skill of the acupuncturist and on what is done. l'd had acupuncture previously with very little effect, but the guy last year stuck needles in everywhere, much more than l'd expected, which made me feel uneasy from the beginning. l realized afterward that this guy didn't have nearly enough skill to work with someone in my situation. l needed some Chinese master , not a western neophyte. Hi Jerry, Quite often, it isn't too late but a warning to be more cautious (aware). A phenomenon not mentioned in 'ordinary' acupuncture practice is the possibility of transferring what are called 'auric components' from the healer to the patient. Hence the requirement to be selective regarding the choice of healers. And indeed it is likely, the third center is most involved as it is notorious for making trouble. That moods strongly influence both appetite and digestion is well known too. The mind-body has strong powers of recuperation but they only reveal when triggered. For the body that is called fasting and for the mind, self-surrender although a borderline between the two can't be drawn. Perhaps you can find an acupuncturist with knowledge of K., as such a one could know how to deal with your problem by experience.. Peace, Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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