Guest guest Posted June 9, 1999 Report Share Posted June 9, 1999 > > I am afraid that your comments regarding Shankara and Vedanta are extremely > > innaccurate and not at all well-reasoned. > > > > Madhya > > Jelke: Not being a scholar in the subject, that may very well be! At > least as far as accuracy goes. As for 'not well-reasoned' I didn't know > I did much reasoning. Just stated my opinion which is practically the > same as that of Ramana Maharshi. (His, however, is not opinion but based > on personal experience; that's why I trust him!) > > Regards, > Jelke. > Harsha: Thanks Jelke. I had to smile. Ramana Maharshi is the great sage of Arunachala. He is the master of masters before whom even great yogis bowed. To feel closeness to Him, to understand Him, to trust Him, shows great spiritual maturity and depth of understanding. One who is in fullness of awareness and clarity will always put his finger on the heart of the problem. Self Realization has nothing to do with scholarly authority or authority based on spiritual lineage, etc. Clever logic and beautiful words are fine and might be useful. But they are of no use in becoming silent. Meditation and Samadhi are wonderful and yet can lead to an imagined spiritual superiority and hierarchy. To Recognize One's Own Self is Simple as there is nothing apart from it. Recognizing It, Abiding in It, Being That is the True Practice. How one comes to it does not matter. However one comes to it, one has to leave it behind. The boat used to cross the river is of no use after the river is crossed. Upon crossing the river, the boat, the rider, and the river as well disappear into the Self. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 14, 1999 Report Share Posted June 14, 1999 Hello everyone and thanks for being here. This is a Sangha and we welcome and embrace people of all spiritual traditions and Religions. We have people from Hinduism, Jainism, Buddhism, Taoism, Christianity, Judaism, Sufism, and many other belief systems (and non-belief systems) represented. Within this diversity, there is unity as we are all interested in the nature of truth and the mystery of perception and the perceiver. Who is it that perceives? What is perceived? Over a quarter of century ago in a philosophy class I learned that Kant, a great German philosopher had reasoned that the "Thing in itself" can never be known. Kant argued that we can never truly know what we are perceiving in essence as the mind itself has built in categories which determine how perceptions take place. His conclusion was that we are limited to knowing only perceptions. The great nondual traditions focus on the nature of perception and the nature of the perceiver. The great master of masters, Ramana Maharshi, before whom the yogis and tantrics bowed, has said again and again to find out who the perceiver is. Who is the "I" that looks out and "sees". There lies the eternal clue which leads to the Eternal Realization or Recognition. So my dear and wonderful friends, what do you perceive? How do you perceive? Who perceives? Love to all Harsha Harsha: Ramana Maharshi taught mostly in Silence. When he spoke, what he said was specific to each person. Here he speaks to Paul Brunton. 13. Realization: Q: If 'I' am always here and now, why don't I feel it? M: That's is the point! Who says that it is not felt? Does the real 'I' say it or the false 'I'? Examine it. You will find it is the wrong 'I'. The wrong 'I' is the obstruction. It has to be removed in order that the true 'I' might not be hidden. The feeling, 'I have not realized,' is the obstruction to realization. In fact, you are already realized; there is nothing to realize. If there were, it would have to be something new, not existing so far, that would occur sometime in the future. What has birth will also die. If realization were not eternal it would not be worth having. Therefore, what we seek is not that which must happen afresh. It is only that which is eternal and which is not known, due to obstructions, that is what we seek. Ignorance is the obstruction. Remove it, and all will be well. The ignorance is identical with the 'I'-thought. Find its source and it will vanish. The 'I'-thought is like a spirit which is not palpable, and it rises up simultaneously with the body, flourishes on it and disappears with it. The body-consciousness is the wrong 'I'. Give it up! This is done by seeking the source of the 'I'. The body does not say 'I am'. It is you who says, 'I am the body.' Find out who this 'I' is. Seeking its source, it will vanish. Q: What is to be our sadhana? M: The sahaja of siddha! Sahaja is the original state so that sadhana amounts to the removal of obstacles for the realization of this abiding truth. By repeated practice one can become accustomed to turning inwards and finding the Self. One must always and constantly make an effort, until one has permanently realized. Once the effort ceases, the state becomes natural and the Supreme takes possession of the person with an unbroken current. Until it has become permanently natural and your habitual state, know that you have not realized the Self, only glimpsed it. The soul that realizes the Self may still be connected with a working body, senses, and mind, without identifying itself with that body. There can be satisfaction only when you reach the source, otherwise there will be restlessness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 14, 1999 Report Share Posted June 14, 1999 On Mon, 14 Jun 1999, Harsha (Dr. Harsh K. Luthar) wrote: > Realization or Recognition. So my dear and wonderful friends, what do you > perceive? How do you perceive? Who perceives? When Dogen came back from china, he found he had horizontal eyes and a vertical nose. (In Buddhism, seeing directly and being able to demonstrate the unexplainable is paramount at times. So these strange statements in Zen buddhism are actually very profound things because they can point directly to that which is non dual non differentiated, limitless and empty of concept and form, yet at the same time *is* concept and form) --janpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 14, 1999 Report Share Posted June 14, 1999 At 09:35 AM 6/14/99 -0500, Debora A. Orf wrote: >On Mon, 14 Jun 1999, Harsha (Dr. Harsh K. Luthar) wrote: >> Realization or Recognition. So my dear and wonderful friends, what do you >> perceive? How do you perceive? Who perceives? > > >When Dogen came back from china, he found he had horizontal eyes and a >vertical nose. >(In Buddhism, seeing directly and being able to demonstrate the >unexplainable is paramount at times. So these strange statements in Zen >buddhism are actually very profound things because they can point directly >to that which is non dual non differentiated, limitless and empty of >concept and form, yet at the same time *is* concept and form) This is wonderful, thanks!!! --Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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