Guest guest Posted June 9, 1999 Report Share Posted June 9, 1999 >From a post by Harsha-- Harsha: Thanks Jelke. I had to smile. Ramana Maharshi is the great sage of Arunachala. He is the master of masters before whom even great yogis bowed. To feel closeness to Him, to understand Him, to trust Him, shows great spiritual maturity and depth of understanding. One who is in fullness of awareness and clarity will always put his finger on the heart of the problem. Self Realization has nothing to do with scholarly authority or authority based on spiritual lineage, etc. Clever logic and beautiful words are fine and might be useful. But they are of no use in becoming silent. Meditation and Samadhi are wonderful and yet can lead to an imagined spiritual superiority and hierarchy. To Recognize One's Own Self is Simple as there is nothing apart from it. Recognizing It, Abiding in It, Being That is the True Practice. How one comes to it does not matter. However one comes to it, one has to leave it behind. The boat used to cross the river is of no use after the river is crossed. Upon crossing the river, the boat, the rider, and the river as well disappear into the Self. Friends-- Ah, Harshaji, I, too had to smile reading your words. And with love and honor I say, "Harsha dear, you are mistaken." And, what is more, you dishonor those who have experienced 'Truth' through meditation and yoga just as surely as you claim that this is possible following the words of your Sage. With passion and devotion equal to yours, my friend, I say that the finest and surest way to experience Silence is to begin sitting. Alone. And experience Self. Nine years ago, I was alcoholic and deeply depressed. I had no money or means of getting help for my physical and emotional afflictions. So I began to practice. Every day. I did asanas. I danced and sang alone in my room. I meditated. I quit drinking. Slowly, Mother Kundalini healed my body and mind. And then She set to work on my soul. She led every step. Her Voice told me everything to do. And today, I enjoy life in a way that I could never have imagined possible. The mind no longer torments. Emotions have lost their claws. The Moment of life has become so bright, so colorful, so fragrant! And It has only just begun! Your Sage of Arunchala is He to whom you ever refer our friends. I may today be only a waitress, and possess no degrees; I may have been a prostitute and a neglectful parent, but the flower of my devotion is One-Pointed. Arrogance may appear among all devotees, all persons, enlightened or no. Meditation breeds such arrogance no more than Jnana. In my humble view, I must say that the reverse is true. Those in my life whom God has transformed through practice and devotion have nearly to a person reflected Her own Face and Her own Personality. Baba Hari Dass, who lived and meditated for 12 years in a cave alone, radiates marvelous love and peace. Harsha, dear. What you have said above is "Truth" as you see it. You are offering Your testimony. You are showing Your devotion to your master, Ramana. Your heart is so full of the joy of your own 'rebirth' that you want others to share the very means that saved you--the teachings of Your Master. I, too, share the teachings of my Mistress, of my Master. Tibetan Buddhist Teacher Lobsang Gyatso expresses very well what Mother Kundalini has taught me: "...as you meditate, applying the mind again and again and again, the clarity of awareness increases more and more and more." Milarepa spoke: "This non-thought, this radiant and transparent experience, Is but the feeling of dhyana (absorption). With this good foundation One should pray further to the Three (Jewels), And penetrate to Reality by deep thinking and contemplation. He thus can tie the non-ego Wisdom With the beneficial life-rope of deep dhyana. With the power of kindness and compassion, And with altruistic vow of the Bodhi-Heart, He can see direct and clear The truth of the Enlightened Path, On which nothing can be seen, yet all is clearly visioned." >From my Shaivite Master, Swami Lakshmanjoo--who even from beyond this world--awakened my Heart: "When the outgoing breath, which travels from the center of the eyebrows to external twelve finger spaces is over, and the incoming breath has yet to begin, there is an automatic pause which a yogi realizes and where he remains one-pointed.... When, while he is doing this practice, he realizes the Sun of Supreme Knowledge, and when his ignorance is ended and he becomes a realized soul, then no matter whatever he does he is soaked in God Consciousness everywhere and has attained eternal Samadhi. When his breath has automatically stopped completely at that time he is just like a rock and then he beholds the union of limited being in unlimited being." And, if my friends will forgive me, one final poem of my own: between, Grace abiding Husband, your Voice arrives round midnight in tones soft as jasmine blooming, flowing in, tides of silence Beloved, I feel you in the suckling pinch of our baby¹s hungry kiss, river of stillness flowing away, O Lover, you are the milk that swells my aching mother¹s breasts between... Emptiness Ah, Moment! your newborn eyes are adrift in Grace... My Testimony (abbreviated version) by Madhya Nandi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 9, 1999 Report Share Posted June 9, 1999 >"Madhya Nandi" <madhya > > One Good Testimony Deserves Another! >Tue, 08 Jun 1999 23:47:48 -0700 > >..... > >Nine years ago, I was alcoholic and deeply depressed. I had no money or >means of getting help for my physical and emotional afflictions. So I >began to practice. Every day. I did asanas. I danced and sang alone in >my >room. I meditated. > >I quit drinking. Slowly, Mother Kundalini healed my body and mind. And >then She set to work on my soul. She led every step. Her Voice told me >everything to do. And today, I enjoy life in a way that I could never have >imagined possible. The mind no longer torments. Emotions have lost their >claws. The Moment of life has become so bright, so colorful, so fragrant! >And It has only just begun! > >Your Sage of Arunchala is He to whom you ever refer our friends. > >I may today be only a waitress, and possess no degrees; I may have been a >prostitute and a neglectful parent, but the flower of my devotion is >One-Pointed. >.... > Dear Madhya, Thanks you! I am deeply touched. Namaste, Sam. _____________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 9, 1999 Report Share Posted June 9, 1999 Dear Madhya, At 11:47 PM 6/8/99 -0700, you wrote: <excerpt>Ah, Harshaji, I, too had to smile reading your words. And with love and honor I say, "Harsha dear, you are mistaken." And, what is more, you dishonor those who have experienced 'Truth' through meditation and yoga just as surely as you claim that this is possible following the words of your Sage. </excerpt><<<<<<<< Madhya, I must ask you, from what authority do you speak? Has someone sanctioned you as a realized sage? Since you seem to value authority yourself, I must ask, what are your qualifications for making the statements you have? You are looking at a mountain from one side, seeing it, and believing you are seeing the mountain as it is (a common mistake). Those looking from another side or angle see a completely different mountain. Truth is nondual and cannot be put into words - it can only be pointed to. All nondual truths as communicated or interpreted are filtered through the mind, and every mind is different. Thus, you and Harsha are both "right." Tim ----- Messenge me live with Messenger - For info go to http://messenger./ Visit The Core of the WWW at: http://www.eskimo.com/~fewtch/ND/index.html Music, Poetry, Writings on Nondual Spiritual Topics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 9, 1999 Report Share Posted June 9, 1999 Madhya Nandi wrote: > I may today be only a waitress, and possess no degrees; I may have > been a prostitute and a neglectful parent, but the flower of my > devotion is One-Pointed. Your are so beautiful Madhya, you shine like a star in my heart. Thank you so much for your words. Humbly, Antoine > Husband, > your Voice arrives round > midnight in tones soft as > jasmine blooming, > > flowing in, > tides of silence > > Beloved, > I feel you in > the suckling pinch > of our baby¹s hungry kiss, > > river of stillness > flowing away, > > O Lover, > you are the milk > that swells my aching > mother¹s breasts > between... > Emptiness > > Ah, Moment! your newborn > eyes are adrift in Grace... > > > > My Testimony (abbreviated version) > > by > > Madhya Nandi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 9, 1999 Report Share Posted June 9, 1999 Harsha wrote: <excerpt>However one comes to it, one has to leave it behind. The boat used to cross the river is of no use after the river is crossed. Upon crossing the river, the boat, the rider, and the river as well disappear into the Self. </excerpt>Greg: This is agreed upon by virtually all teachers in the non-dual traditions. <excerpt>Madhya Nandi wrote: Ah, Harshaji, I, too had to smile reading your words. And with love and </excerpt>honor I say, "Harsha dear, you are mistaken." <excerpt> </excerpt>Greg: Would you say he's mistaken about the above quote? Madhya: <excerpt> And, what is more, you dishonor those who have experienced 'Truth' through meditation and yoga just as surely as you claim that this is possible following the words of your Sage. </excerpt> Greg: How can anything BUT Truth be experienced?? Are you saying that there is anything other than Truth? What and where would it be? Madhya: <excerpt>Arrogance may appear among all devotees, all persons, enlightened or no. Meditation breeds such arrogance no more than Jnana. In my humble view, I must say that the reverse is true. </excerpt> Greg: Totally agree - among arrogant spiritual practitioners, the most arrogant tend to be those trying to practice Jnana; NOT bhakti, karma, hatha, raja or any of the other margas. In fact, in my experience, the most arrogant of the Jnana practitioners tend to be the ones who never practiced karma or bhakti yoga. Orthodox advaita vedanta holds these two to be pre-requisites for the study/practice of Vedanta. Madhya: I may today be only a waitress, and possess no degrees; I may have been a prostitute and a neglectful parent, but the flower of my devotion is One-Pointed. Greg: A girlfriend who I was with for 3 years had been a prostitute. I loved her dearly, and we were together when I started to become interested in non-dualism. We broke up several years ago, and to this day we are friends. She now teaches ballroom dancing. These things, profession, etc., are clothing and have nothing to do with understanding or devotion. Thank you for sharing so much about your life and loves! --Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 9, 1999 Report Share Posted June 9, 1999 Gloria: There is no right or wrong way, instead, however it comes about, is the perfect way for each very individual soul/spirit. When we speak it is very easy to put out through words that this or that is the,,,normal, blessed, perfect way. I don't believe it is what is intended at all, but rather the zeal of the sharing. We live in a period of openess when people are coming back in after many lives of preparation, so really all of the thought forms about how it will happen are pretty obsolete. Many have finished the preparation stage and literally come in to wake up, so it happens without assistance other then from spirit Christed beings. This is not as rare as it may have been in history, it will be experienced more and more. Madhya Nandi wrote: > > >From a post by Harsha-- > > Harsha: Thanks Jelke. I had to smile. Ramana Maharshi is the great > sage of > Arunachala. He is the master of masters before whom even great yogis > bowed. To > feel closeness to Him, to understand Him, to trust Him, shows great > spiritual > maturity and depth of understanding. One who is in fullness of > awareness and > clarity will always put his finger on the heart of the problem. Self > Realization > has nothing to do with scholarly authority or authority based on > spiritual > lineage, etc. Clever logic and beautiful words are fine and might be > useful. But > they are of no use in becoming silent. Meditation and Samadhi are > wonderful and > yet can lead to an imagined spiritual superiority and hierarchy. To > Recognize > One's Own Self is Simple as there is nothing apart from it. > Recognizing It, > Abiding in It, Being That is the True Practice. How one comes to it > does not > matter. However one comes to it, one has to leave it behind. The boat > used to > cross the river is of no use after the river is crossed. Upon crossing > the river, > the boat, the rider, and the river as well disappear into the Self. > > > > Friends-- > > Ah, Harshaji, I, too had to smile reading your words. And with love > and > honor I say, "Harsha dear, you are mistaken." And, what is more, you > dishonor those who have experienced 'Truth' through meditation and > yoga > just as surely as you claim that this is possible following the words > of your Sage. > > With passion and devotion equal to yours, my friend, I say that the > finest > and surest way to experience Silence is to begin sitting. Alone. And > > experience Self. > > Nine years ago, I was alcoholic and deeply depressed. I had no money > or > means of getting help for my physical and emotional afflictions. So I > > began to practice. Every day. I did asanas. I danced and sang alone > in my room. I meditated. > > I quit drinking. Slowly, Mother Kundalini healed my body and mind. > And > then She set to work on my soul. She led every step. Her Voice told > me > everything to do. And today, I enjoy life in a way that I could never > have > imagined possible. The mind no longer torments. Emotions have lost > their > claws. The Moment of life has become so bright, so colorful, so > fragrant! And It has only just begun! > > Your Sage of Arunchala is He to whom you ever refer our friends. > > I may today be only a waitress, and possess no degrees; I may have > been a prostitute and a neglectful parent, but the flower of my > devotion is One-Pointed. > > Arrogance may appear among all devotees, all persons, enlightened or > no. > Meditation breeds such arrogance no more than Jnana. In my humble > view, I > must say that the reverse is true. Those in my life whom God has > transformed through practice and devotion have nearly to a person > reflected > Her own Face and Her own Personality. Baba Hari Dass, who lived and > meditated for 12 years in a cave alone, radiates marvelous love and > peace. > > Harsha, dear. What you have said above is "Truth" as you see it. You > are > offering Your testimony. You are showing Your devotion to your > master, > Ramana. Your heart is so full of the joy of your own 'rebirth' that > you > want others to share the very means that saved you--the teachings of > Your Master. > > I, too, share the teachings of my Mistress, of my Master. Tibetan > Buddhist > Teacher Lobsang Gyatso expresses very well what Mother Kundalini has > taught me: > > "...as you meditate, applying the mind again and again and again, the > clarity of awareness increases more and more and more." > > Milarepa spoke: > > "This non-thought, this radiant and transparent experience, > Is but the feeling of dhyana (absorption). > With this good foundation > One should pray further to the Three (Jewels), > And penetrate to Reality by deep thinking and contemplation. > He thus can tie the non-ego Wisdom > With the beneficial life-rope of deep dhyana. > With the power of kindness and compassion, > And with altruistic vow of the Bodhi-Heart, > He can see direct and clear > The truth of the Enlightened Path, > On which nothing can be seen, yet all is clearly visioned." > > > >From my Shaivite Master, Swami Lakshmanjoo--who even from beyond > this world--awakened my Heart: > > "When the outgoing breath, which travels from the center of the > eyebrows to > external twelve finger spaces is over, and the incoming breath has yet > to > begin, there is an automatic pause which a yogi realizes and where he > remains one-pointed.... When, while he is doing this practice, he > realizes > the Sun of Supreme Knowledge, and when his ignorance is ended and he > becomes a realized soul, then no matter whatever he does he is soaked > in > God Consciousness everywhere and has attained eternal Samadhi. When > his > breath has automatically stopped completely at that time he is just > like a > rock and then he beholds the union of limited being in unlimited > being." > > And, if my friends will forgive me, one final poem of my own: > > > > between, Grace abiding > > > > > Husband, > your Voice arrives round > midnight in tones soft as > jasmine blooming, > > flowing in, > tides of silence > > > Beloved, > I feel you in > the suckling pinch > of our baby1s hungry kiss, > > river of stillness > flowing away, > > > O Lover, > you are the milk > that swells my aching > mother1s breasts > between... > Emptiness > > > Ah, Moment! your newborn > eyes are adrift in Grace... > > > > > > My Testimony (abbreviated version) > > by > > Madhya Nandi > > > > > > > > > -- Enter The Silence to know God...and...accept life as the teacher. Gloria Joy Greco e-mail me at:lodpress visit my homepage & internet retreat at: http://users.intercomm.com/larryn/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 9, 1999 Report Share Posted June 9, 1999 On Wed, 09 Jun 1999 08:47:50 -0700 lodpress <lodpress writes: >lodpress <lodpress > >Gloria: >There is no right or wrong way, instead, however it comes about, is >the perfect way for each very individual soul/spirit. Exactly, thank you. >When we speak it is >very easy to put out through words that this or that is the,,,normal, >blessed, perfect way. I don't believe it is what is intended at all, >but >rather the zeal of the sharing. Yes, and the more grateful we are for the perceived "success" of what we have done (or, more accurately, what has occurred in the course of our particular incarnation), the more zealous and confident our advocacy tends to be. >We live in a period of openess when >people are coming back in after many lives of preparation, so really >all of the thought forms about how it will happen are pretty obsolete. ....or perhaps as useful or even essential as they have ever been -- it all depends on the perceptual state and propensities of the particular incarnation at issue. Moreover, a "pure" bhakta or jnana is really rather rare, ones course of life is often a unique combination or juxtaposition of approaches and demeanors. >Many >have finished the preparation stage and literally come in to wake up, Yes, an interesting possibility indeed! >so >it happens without assistance other then from spirit Christed beings. ....or it may happen with the help of any number of unexpected and unlikely catalysts! Sometimes it is the state of suffering from which we feel delivered that is our actual and essential teacher. :-) >This is not as rare as it may have been in history, it will be >experienced more and more. > Prophecy noted and joyously contemplated, many thanks to you for your expression, Gloria. [testimonies snipped] > >-- >Enter The Silence to know God...and...accept life as the teacher. > >Gloria Joy Greco >e-mail me at:lodpress visit my homepage & internet >retreat >at: >http://users.intercomm.com/larryn/ > http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucemrg.htm http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucsong.htm m(_ _)m _ _________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 9, 1999 Report Share Posted June 9, 1999 One Good Testimony Deserves Another!----Original Message----- Madhya Nandi [madhya] Wednesday, June 09, 1999 2:48 AM One Good Testimony Deserves Another! From a post by Harsha-- Harsha: Thanks Jelke. I had to smile. Ramana Maharshi is the great sage of Arunachala. He is the master of masters before whom even great yogis bowed. To feel closeness to Him, to understand Him, to trust Him, shows great spiritual maturity and depth of understanding. One who is in fullness of awareness and clarity will always put his finger on the heart of the problem. Self Realization has nothing to do with scholarly authority or authority based on spiritual lineage, etc. Clever logic and beautiful words are fine and might be useful. But they are of no use in becoming silent. Meditation and Samadhi are wonderful and yet can lead to an imagined spiritual superiority and hierarchy. To Recognize One's Own Self is Simple as there is nothing apart from it. Recognizing It, Abiding in It, Being That is the True Practice. How one comes to it does not matter. However one comes to it, one has to leave it behind. The boat used to cross the river is of no use after the river is crossed. Upon crossing the river, the boat, the rider, and the river as well disappear into the Self. Madhya wrote: Friends-- Ah, Harshaji, I, too had to smile reading your words. And with love and honor I say, "Harsha dear, you are mistaken." And, what is more, you dishonor those who have experienced 'Truth' through meditation and yoga just as surely as you claim that this is possible following the words of your Sage. Harsha: Madhyaji, Thanks for sharing. Where are the contradictions and differences between the words of the Sage of Arunachala and the practice of Yoga and Meditation? Honoring a Great Sage does not imply that others are dishonored. Self-Awareness, Contemplation, Prayer, Meditation, Yoga, Pranayama, etc., are indeed natural to all spiritual paths. All paths traveled with sincerity lead to the Self. Self is beyond all paths. That is the Truth. Honoring the Truth, all are honored. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 9, 1999 Report Share Posted June 9, 1999 Harsha: Madhyaji, Thanks for sharing. Where are the contradictions and differences between the words of the Sage of Arunachala and the practice of Yoga and Meditation? Honoring a Great Sage does not imply that others are dishonored. Self-Awareness, Contemplation, Prayer, Meditation, Yoga, Pranayama, etc., are indeed natural to all spiritual paths. All paths traveled with sincerity lead to the Self. Self is beyond all paths. That is the Truth. Honoring the Truth, all are honored. Harshaji, had you said this to begin with... but you offered some rather sweeping generalized criticsms regarding meditation/samadhi and those who find Experience in that manner. That was the substance of my disagreement. Please, Harsha, you must allow that the quality of 'Self' that you refer to is not 'the' universal expression of the enlightenment experience. Many other varieties and subtleties of expression exist. These too, are Truth. Thus one might exclaim: Enlightenment IS the path, not BEYOND the path. Madhya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 9, 1999 Report Share Posted June 9, 1999 Re: One Good Testimony Deserves Another! Harsha: Madhyaji, Thanks for sharing. Where are the contradictions and differences between the words of the Sage of Arunachala and the practice of Yoga and Meditation? Honoring a Great Sage does not imply that others are dishonored. Self-Awareness, Contemplation, Prayer, Meditation, Yoga, Pranayama, etc., are indeed natural to all spiritual paths. All paths traveled with sincerity lead to the Self. Self is beyond all paths. That is the Truth. Honoring the Truth, all are honored. Harshaji, had you said this to begin with... but you offered some rather sweeping generalized criticsms regarding meditation/samadhi and those who find Experience in that manner. That was the substance of my disagreement. Please, Harsha, you must allow that the quality of 'Self' that you refer to is not 'the' universal expression of the enlightenment experience. Many other varieties and subtleties of expression exist. These too, are Truth. Thus one might exclaim: Enlightenment IS the path, not BEYOND the path. Madhya Harsha: No one in particular was criticized Madhyaji but I stated the nondual perspective plainly as my own truth, in every sense of the word. If my way of expression did not suit you, that is fine. One should always follow the truth of one's own heart without reservation. I am just an ordinary person and that is the truth also. What comes through me is conditioned by my background, experience, personality, etc. You can take that into account when you interpret what is said here. I practiced Yoga since childhood. My own path took me through Meditation and many different types of Samadhis. At times, I have written about Kundalini Shakti, different states and Nirvikalpa Samadhi from my experience. I have also known many individuals who are intimately familiar with many different Samadhi states. Certainly, deep Meditation leading to Samadhi might be useful in many ways. The state of mind or the mood one is in prior to meditation has an influence on what type of Samadhi is experienced. Experiences in the supersensual and superconscious realm simply broaden the awareness of different aspects and realms of consciousness. They can also lead to an imagined hierarchy and the feeling of spiritual superiority. In such a frame of mind, the total surrender, which is simply a total and a complete surrender without the intent to surrender, is difficult. It is with the total letting go, that the total flow of the Self into It Self is Recognized. So the sages say do not hold on to anything (not even meditative or Samadhi experiences). Letting everything go, See what remains. And then let that go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 11, 1999 Report Share Posted June 11, 1999 Greg Goode wrote: > A girlfriend who I was with for 3 years had been a prostitute. Yeah, me too. 'Cept I didn't know 'till I got the bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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