Guest guest Posted June 10, 1999 Report Share Posted June 10, 1999 On Thu, 10 Jun 1999 01:48:01 jb wrote: >---- > >THE DOUBLE-CONSCIOUSNESS OF A JIVANMUKTA > >A man who stands in water up to his neck has a twofold experience. His head >is exposed to the sun. He experiences both heat and cold. Such is the >experience of a Jivanmukta. He has double consciousness. He enjoys the bliss >of Brahman (God). He also has the experience of this world. He is like a man >who knows two languages. Nice image. Illustrative for someone not really understanding what being a Jivanmukta "means". >The Jivanmukta has a >consciousness of the body in the form of a Samskara (impression in the >subconscious mind). That is the reason why he eats and drinks. Though the >instinctive mind with low desires is destroyed, the Sattvic (pure) mind does >not perish in the Jivanmukta. How will he be able to do Vyavahara or worldly >dealings without an instrument, viz., the mind? > > >----------------------> >The above is from the perspective of Advaita where ignorance plays an >important role. The allowance of ignorance to explain behavior like eating, >drinking, walking etc. is rather artificial. Yes, I cannot see how the basic physical needs like eating, drinking and breathing can be labeled ignorant, unless one labels the entire body/mind ignorant. Maybe they do ? >A different view is attained by introducing the concept of habit mind. The >requirements for habit mind are memory and a rewarding mechanism. From this >perspective, it is possible to differentiate between inborn or "hard wired" >and acquired habits. The first category concerns matters like eating and >exercise whereas the second concerns matters like smoking, drinking >alcoholics, taking drugs and fetching a stick. Yes, I see your point. >So instead of explaining the behavior of a Jivanmukta by the admission of >ignorance, one could explain it by stating that only non-harmful habits >remain. These habits aren't habits in the proper sense as they have lost >their power (no more "reward"); turning them off would require a motive but >what motive could be left to do so? What about the "motive" of simply keeping the physical body alive ? Even with a radically lowered metabolism and/or activity level, the human body needs a certain amount of food intake every day to maintain healthy functions. As I am aware of yogic adepts suspending breath and eating of "impossible" amounts of time, this can hardly be combined with activities requiring more energy than meditation. Best regards, Amanda. Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 1999 Report Share Posted June 10, 1999 > "Amanda Erhart" <mumblecat [...] > >The above is from the perspective of Advaita where ignorance plays an > >important role. The allowance of ignorance to explain behavior > like eating, > >drinking, walking etc. is rather artificial. > > Yes, I cannot see how the basic physical needs like > eating, drinking and breathing can be labeled ignorant, > unless one labels the entire body/mind ignorant. > Maybe they do ? The splitting up of mind into "higher" and "lower" brings a few problems. It is said that in a Jivanmukta the lower mind (instinctive mind) is annihilated but this picture is partially true at best. They don't call mind and body ignorant, because ignorance opposes knowledge; on attaining knowledge, ignorance disappears but the body remains and so does the mind. Therefore, it is said that body and mind are products of ignorance and the products of ignorance don't oppose knowledge. A better explanation is that body and mind have a finite capacity to experience bliss whereas the bliss of Being is infinite. So one's experience of bliss remains the same but the experience of anything else will fade. The analogy is with the ability of seeing and hearing senses to accommodate for a large dynamic range; this is why intensities are expressed on a logarithmic scale. Hearing a loud sound will drown the weaker sounds. [...] > >So instead of explaining the behavior of a Jivanmukta by the admission of > >ignorance, one could explain it by stating that only non-harmful habits > >remain. These habits aren't habits in the proper sense as they have lost > >their power (no more "reward"); turning them off would require a > motive but > >what motive could be left to do so? > > What about the "motive" of simply keeping the physical body alive ? Motive, will, no matter how it is called, it is always a result of an impression kept in memory and a perception. In the case of a Jivanmukta, this process is known and the storehouse of the past is emptied. > Even with a radically lowered metabolism and/or activity > level, the human body needs a certain amount of > food intake every day to maintain healthy functions. True, even in suspended animation there will be some use of energy. > As I am aware of yogic adepts suspending breath and > eating of "impossible" amounts of time, > this can hardly be combined with activities > requiring more energy than meditation. > > Best regards, > > Amanda. In the course of events, suspending breath will become spontaneous but only when not exercising. Breathing automatically tends to slow down at the minimum requirement. Eating isn't different; when K. was rising the amount of food was spontaneously reduced to an impossibly low quantity, just four crackers and four tomatoes a day, despite regular long walks. This phase took about a year and weight remained constant after an initial loss during the first months. There is far too little data on the physical effects to draw conclusions, apart from K. as a purifier. Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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