Guest guest Posted June 17, 1999 Report Share Posted June 17, 1999 At 07:19 PM 6/17/99 EDT, you wrote: >PhamDLuan > > >Suzanne's example speaks to us of the importance of integration—of the >personal and the transpersonal, the psychological and the spiritual—and >raises questions about the relationship between dissociation—in which >parts of thtranspersonal, the psychological and the spiritual—and raises >questions about the relationship between dissociation—in which parts of >the psyche split off from one another—and genuine," > >—Stephan Bodian >Fairfax, California April 1998 Melody: I'm still crying from having read this. On one level I have always felt this to be true for those of us who have childhood, or wartime, trauma issues. And on the other hand, it puts right in front of me, a lingering fear waiting to be faced. Most of us learn to 'split off', so as not to be present for the abuse or trauma. Of literally hundreds of incidents, I can only remember being 'present' for two of them. This shakes me so much now because these past few weeks I have become aware of the times I'm not present. And not just 'not being awake', but not being present at all it seems....having absolutely no memory of a certain activity. Twice this week I had very short nightmares... dreaming someone had broken into my home, and were coming towards me....and then I wake up. It feels very much related somehow, and timely. (I've had maybe only 3 other nightmares my entire life, so having 2 this week is indeed significant.) On one hand what Suzanne experienced confirms my own sensings. But on the other....and I'm glad I have become 'shame'-less.....I'm am afraid. Afraid I won't 'gather up' all of me in time. In time for what? I'm not sure. What part of me? I don't know that either. This is just what the fear says. I touched upon this a bit with one of my posts a few days ago, but this thread here seemed to totally blow down the door. I realize this may not be the least bit logical or rational. But I could surely use some help right now. I offer this here because I am clear that not only will someone have the words I'm ready to hear, but that this may 'speak to' someone else, as well. Melody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 1999 Report Share Posted June 17, 1999 Melody wrote: > (I've had maybe only 3 other nightmares my > entire life, so having 2 this week is indeed > significant.) Perhaps you've many, many nightmares that you've simply not remembered and the true significance is your remembering them. Perhaps you are ripe for integration and reclaiming a larger part of yourself... > On one hand what Suzanne experienced confirms > my own sensings. But on the other....and I'm > glad I have become 'shame'-less.....I'm am > afraid. Afraid I won't 'gather up' all of me > in time. In time for what? I'm not sure. > What part of me? I don't know that either. > This is just what the fear says. It may be easier to comprehend this as an expansion of your ego boundary as opposed to chopping it all up into parts. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 1999 Report Share Posted June 17, 1999 Melody wrote: <snip> > On one hand what Suzanne experienced confirms > my own sensings. But on the other....and I'm > glad I have become 'shame'-less.....I'm am > afraid. Afraid I won't 'gather up' all of me > in time. In time for what? I'm not sure. > What part of me? I don't know that either. > This is just what the fear says. Marcia: I really have no way to relate to your experience. But when I read what you write I say to myself that what needs to happen is that you need to let go of all of it. Not gather it up. I relate to the fear you speak of as the fear of realizing my own nothingness. I suspect that the fear is intensified in your case because what you are clinging to you had to cling to for dear life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 1999 Report Share Posted June 17, 1999 Melody wrote: > > On one hand what Suzanne experienced confirms > > my own sensings. But on the other....and I'm > > glad I have become 'shame'-less.....I'm am > > afraid. Afraid I won't 'gather up' all of me > > in time. In time for what? I'm not sure. > > What part of me? I don't know that either. > > This is just what the fear says. > Marcia: > > I really have no way to relate to your experience. > But when I read what you write I say to myself > that what needs to happen is that you need to let > go of all of it. Not gather it up. I relate to the > fear you speak of as the fear of realizing my own > nothingness. I suspect that the fear is intensified > in your case because what you are clinging to you > had to cling to for dear life. What kind of support system would that letting-go require? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 1999 Report Share Posted June 17, 1999 Melody wrote: > Melody: > I'm still crying from having read this. On > one level I have always felt this to be > true for those of us who have childhood, > or wartime, trauma issues. And on the other > hand, it puts right in front of me, a lingering > fear waiting to be faced. > > Most of us learn to 'split off', so as not > to be present for the abuse or trauma. > > Of literally hundreds of incidents, I can only remember being 'present' for > two of them. > > This shakes me so much now because these past > few weeks I have become aware of the times I'm > not present. And not just 'not being awake', but > not being present at all it seems....having > absolutely no memory of a certain activity. Gloria: You don't want to let your thoughts and emotions run off with you. Suzanne was going through something which was both physical and spiritual. No doubt she was shown spiritually what was coming down and was making the adjustments. > > > Twice this week I had very short nightmares... > dreaming someone had broken into my home, and > were coming towards me....and then I wake up. GG These dreams are usually connected to something going on in your life where you were receiving projections coming at you. Usually as soon as you begin to look you will see what it is referring to. These are not always negative but rather symbolic. It can also mean you have let in to your conscious mind thoughts, ideas...that are negative. I would need to know more about you and your life to help you understand the cause and effect. Life is cause and effect, however, you don't want to give energy to anything that would cause fear or anxiety. Just breathe and turn your life to 'thy will and not mine." > > > It feels very much related somehow, and timely. > (I've had maybe only 3 other nightmares my > entire life, so having 2 this week is indeed > significant.) GG > > > On one hand what Suzanne experienced confirms > my own sensings. But on the other....and I'm > glad I have become 'shame'-less.....I'm am > afraid. Afraid I won't 'gather up' all of me > in time. In time for what? I'm not sure. > What part of me? I don't know that either. > This is just what the fear says. > > I touched upon this a bit with one of my > posts a few days ago, but this thread here > seemed to totally blow down the door. > > I realize this may not be the least bit logical > or rational. But I could surely use some > help right now. > > I offer this here because I am clear that > not only will someone have the words I'm > ready to hear, but that this may 'speak to' > someone else, as well. > > Melody > > > > > ------ > With more than 20 million e-mails exchanged daily... > > ...ONElist is home to the liveliest discussions on the Internet! -- Enter The Silence to know God...and...accept life as the teacher. Gloria Joy Greco e-mail me at:lodpress visit my homepage & internet retreat at: http://users.intercomm.com/larryn/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 18, 1999 Report Share Posted June 18, 1999 Melody wrote: > Melody: > Most of us learn to 'split off', so as not > to be present for the abuse or trauma. > > Of literally hundreds of incidents, I can only remember being 'present' for > two of them. Melody, your name brings confort to my heart like a sweet melody does. Some look at confort into balance, an orchestrated balance like the stars in the sky, when things go to fast or polarise to much, to fast, in a way to brake the melody, they crytalise. An illusion of contact is lost until the melody sings again. Others like me, find their confort in polarities. They run into one polarity until it's to the point to vanish, to explode, to find another to run into. I'm a ping pong ball Can't say it's always conforthing, depends on the racquet i bounce on. Others find confort in this new particule physicist found: Physicists have just announced the discovery of a particle with no features or characteristics whatsoever. They say they're everywhere. So i guess they find confort everywhere. Antoine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 18, 1999 Report Share Posted June 18, 1999 > Melody <melody [...] > Melody: > I'm still crying from having read this. On > one level I have always felt this to be > true for those of us who have childhood, > or wartime, trauma issues. And on the other > hand, it puts right in front of me, a lingering > fear waiting to be faced. > > Most of us learn to 'split off', so as not > to be present for the abuse or trauma. One won't go far with a trauma. Sooner or later is has to be faced. By not addressing it, it works like a slow poison. It affects one's entire life. Because one has gotten accustomed to live with it, the burden can only be felt when it is gone. > Of literally hundreds of incidents, I can only remember being > 'present' for > two of them. > > This shakes me so much now because these past > few weeks I have become aware of the times I'm > not present. And not just 'not being awake', but > not being present at all it seems....having > absolutely no memory of a certain activity. Having no memory of an activity isn't a problem at all. Many activities are habits that are executed automatically. Who would remember the number of times to have pulled the brake on a trip with the car? > Twice this week I had very short nightmares... > dreaming someone had broken into my home, and > were coming towards me....and then I wake up. > > It feels very much related somehow, and timely. > (I've had maybe only 3 other nightmares my > entire life, so having 2 this week is indeed > significant.) I know three reasons for nightmares: trauma, heavy meal before sleeping and predicting in relation to sadhana. > On one hand what Suzanne experienced confirms > my own sensings. But on the other....and I'm > glad I have become 'shame'-less.....I'm am > afraid. Afraid I won't 'gather up' all of me > in time. In time for what? I'm not sure. > What part of me? I don't know that either. > This is just what the fear says. If so, the fear could be called "precursor of the fear of death". The lesson from this fear is always, to accept fears and deal with them properly. > I touched upon this a bit with one of my > posts a few days ago, but this thread here > seemed to totally blow down the door. The message is always that as a personality, one only lives once whereas the Impersonal is immortal. > I realize this may not be the least bit logical > or rational. But I could surely use some > help right now. But it is rational. Spiritual life isn't for cowards and this means one has to face all fears and traumas. One cannot run or fight them and one cannot hide from them - one has to face them. Grace means, you'll receive a reminder now and then to do just that. > I offer this here because I am clear that > not only will someone have the words I'm > ready to hear, but that this may 'speak to' > someone else, as well. > > Melody Abuse is widespread so traumas are likely. But the worst trauma is caused by the process of dying itself. In a sadhana, clearing traumas and other fears should have priority. Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 18, 1999 Report Share Posted June 18, 1999 Dear Jan, At 12:02 PM 6/18/99 +0100, jb wrote: > >I know three reasons for nightmares: trauma, heavy meal before sleeping and >predicting in relation to sadhana. > Would you explain what is meant by "predicting in relation to sadhana"? Thanks, Jill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 18, 1999 Report Share Posted June 18, 1999 > Jill Eggers <eggers > > Dear Jan, > > At 12:02 PM 6/18/99 +0100, jb wrote: > > > >I know three reasons for nightmares: trauma, heavy meal before > sleeping and > >predicting in relation to sadhana. > > > > Would you explain what is meant by "predicting in relation to sadhana"? > Thanks, > > Jill For instance, a dream / nightmare of being robbed or mugged could indicate one has attachments and unless one is prepared to detach, "something" will happen that forces detachment. Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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