[NondualitySalon] Absolute Certainty

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/19/1999 10:23:25 AM Atlantic Daylight Time,

jl writes:

 

<< by far the most effective relief organization in

the U.S.. No one even comes close to it in respect to clarity

of mission, ability to innovate, measurable results,

dedication and putting money to maximum use...One in

every four participants in its alcohol rehab program reports

total sobriety, good social adjustment and steady employment

six months after finishing...Last year 5 million individuals,

mostly single-parent families, were placed in transitional

housing by the Salvation Army. After placement, the Army

helps them find work and permanent housing. They know how

to work with the poorest of the poor and the meanest of the

mean."

 

When I read this, it brought tears to my eyes. I remembered my

mother's stories of her orphan youth on the streets of New York

City, recalling the unfailing care she received from the Salvation

Army. She says this organization probably saved her life and gave

her more hope than anything on earth, at that time.

 

So -- how do our ideas become action? Is it important? Is self-work

enough? Will personal transformation sort of "automatically" osmose

into practically applied compassions? Where does one's ND "work" find

fruition in broader humanity? What is truth?

 

JL

>>

 

Thank you John for mentioning this and your sharing from the heart. Probably

everyone is doing the best that they can given their conditioning and

circumstances. How people express their truth will always vary. A diamond has

many facets which all reflect the same light in many different colors

according to their uniqueness. Ramana Maharshi never strayed away from

Arunachala after he got there. Ramakrishna Paramhansa stayed more or less in

the same place. His student Vivekananda preached his gospel even here in the

U.S. Mahatma Gandhi became an advocate for the poor and the downtrodden and

was a champion for the philosophy of nonviolence. My teacher in 1942, (around

the age of 20 and deeply disappointed in life and wanting to know the truth

eternal) told Gandhiji that he was leaving the nonviolence movement to become

a Jain monk and asked for parting advice. The Mahatma understood the nature

of that aspiration. He smiled at the young man and said, "Always live in the

light of truth." The Jaina tradition, the religion of my teacher, focuses a

great deal on social service and the philosophy of nonviolence. The Jaina and

Hindu religions, although somewhat different are intertwined. Lord Krishna's

cousin was one of the Jain Tirthankaras. A list that I started, ACOWPAL

(Ahimsa Council of World Peace and Love) is struggling to survive and grow. I

would like to invite you all to join, especially if you are interested in

nonviolence and its practical manifestations. The list is not very active. I

am not that interested in it being active in terms of frequency of posts. But

it would be nice to have a presence there of people interested in exploring

the notion of Ahimsa. Thanks. Love you all.........

Click below to join ..................................Harsha

 

 

<A

HREF="//ACOWPAL">/subscri

be/ACOWPAL

</A>

[Guest guest]

Jerry's post :

 

Perhaps that's the genius of Ramana. Because inwardly inquiring 'Who am

I?' may be the one real act of compassion and responsibility that there

is. It's so many things wrapped into one.

 

It seems that in nonduality dealings we're always playing on the edge of

annihilation. Those who fear it (and fearing it is cool), send others to

the edge for them in the forms of historical or legendary characters or

Gurus or scholars; they don't go too close to the edge themselves. Or

they point to others floating in the void beyond the edge.

 

Harsha: Thanks for your thought Jerry. To go beyond the edge, you would have

to find the edge. Now where is the edge? Assuming the existence of an edge

is another condition, an imaginary boundary, in order to

sustain------------what? I am not saying

you should not compromise. It is just that there are no compromises. It is

not that I reject all doctrines, it is only that I see all doctrines as they

are and the cause of their existence. I swallow that cause. Here is the

earlier quote from the Mountain Path.

 

All doctrines are made by the ego and for the ego. The ego flourishes on

them. But on the Maharshi's path the very existence of the ego is denied

right from the start, both that of the teacher and that of the taught.

"There is no ego. If there were you would have to admit of two selves in

you. Therefore there is no ignorance. If you enquire into the Self,

ignorance, which is already non-existent, will be found not to exist and you

will say that it has fled."*

 

Here is what Antoine said:

 

One of my great teacher's who initiated me told me, in meditations we did

side to side while i was 21: "Look for Nothing in you until there is Nothing

looking".

 

Antoine

[Guest guest]

"Harsha (Dr. Harsh K. Luthar)" wrote:

> Those who fear it (and fearing it is cool),

 

There is the healthy fear that we call 'respect' and then there is the fear we

feel when our hate gets the best of us... one of them forces us to act... the

other is the act it 'self'.....

 

Gentle Peace.

 

Tim Harris

[Guest guest]

Jerry wrote:

 

Perhaps that's the genius of Ramana. Because inwardly inquiring 'Who am

I?' may be the one real act of compassion and responsibility that there

is. It's so many things wrapped into one.

 

It seems that in nonduality dealings we're always playing on the edge of

annihilation. Those who fear it (and fearing it is cool), send others to

the edge for them in the forms of historical or legendary characters or

Gurus or scholars; they don't go too close to the edge themselves. Or

they point to others floating in the void beyond the edge.

 

Harsha wrote:

 

Thanks for your thought Jerry. To go beyond the edge, you would have

to find the edge. Now where is the edge?

 

Jerry writes:

 

It lies in the sense that there is an edge. It is imaginary.

 

 

Harsha:

 

Assuming the existence of an edge is another condition, an imaginary

boundary, in order to

sustain------------what?

 

 

Jerry:

 

In order to sustain the imagination. Isn't that what we're doing here?

Dealing with imaginations of finer and finer substance until there is

only the atmosphere in which imagination exists?

 

 

Harsha:

 

I am not saying you should not compromise. It is just that there are no

compromises. It is not that I reject all doctrines, it is only that I

see all doctrines as they are and the cause of their existence. I

swallow that cause. Here is the earlier quote from the Mountain Path.

 

All doctrines are made by the ego and for the ego. The ego flourishes on

them. But on the Maharshi's path the very existence of the ego is denied

right from the start, both that of the teacher and that of the taught.

"There is no ego. If there were you would have to admit of two selves in

you. Therefore there is no ignorance. If you enquire into the Self,

ignorance, which is already non-existent, will be found not to exist and

you will say that it has fled."*

 

Here is what Antoine said:

 

One of my great teacher's who initiated me told me, in meditations we d

side to side while i was 21: "Look for Nothing in you until there is

Nothing looking".

 

Jerry:

 

Well, yes, what I said might be right for someone. Someone might be able

to identify with it. What I said arises out of a local interactions and

nuances. Whereas what you and Antoine and Ramana are saying are

fundamental anywhere and anyplace and hold up in all times.

[Guest guest]

> Here is what Antoine said:

>

> One of my great teacher's who initiated me told me, in meditations we d

> side to side while i was 21: "Look for Nothing in you until there is

> Nothing looking".

>

> Jerry:

>

> Well, yes, what I said might be right for someone. Someone might be able

> to identify with it. What I said arises out of a local interactions and

> nuances. Whereas what you and Antoine and Ramana are saying are

> fundamental anywhere and anyplace and hold up in all times.

 

Hello Jerry,

 

I don't know if "looking for nothing until there is nothing looking" is

a fundamental anywhere and anyplace that holds up in all times. I would

project, saying it is so, that all places and times have a common aspect

to my experience or knowledge. But it sure did pop up a tornado within

the local interaction and nuances of myself the very first times i tried

such a formula of transmutation into nothing from an initial

perspective.

 

This "nothing" left "looking" may still have a substance, for all i

know, that only a deeper essence, i have no way of knowing or

identifying to, could grasp. In other words, this "nothinglooking"

"atnothing" that "feels" like Totality to me, may be no other than

an

arrow flying from the local interaction to something that cannot be

grasped.

 

There is a deep Joy in realizing the we are that arrow, or movement of

nothing looking for nothing.

 

Enjoy,

 

Antoine