Guest guest Posted July 4, 1999 Report Share Posted July 4, 1999 Jim: << Additionally, I would like to ask about the value of or need for a teacher and how this interfaces with the 9 to 5 lifestyle I currently lead? >> --- A truly clear teacher can be exquisitely valuable. Whether you as an individual "need" one or not, who's to say. You could check out some of the teachers through the internet (search on 'satsang') or through the many books available now. The "right" one(s) would attract you with little doubt. For me the discriminating factor is, does the teaching say you can know your true self here and now. These days growing in awakening does not require changing your lifestyle. Many people are deeply involved in Self rediscovery while having jobs, families, etc. Xan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 1999 Report Share Posted July 4, 1999 Linda: << If you have doubts about someone you should listen to those doubts carefully. >> --- Yes, and you should also listen to your heart's desire - carefully. Xan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 1999 Report Share Posted July 4, 1999 Hello all, I am a relative newcomer to the list, I have been following the various conversations for a month or so and have been moved many times by the exchanges. I don't ascribe to any particular path, I just sort of allow it to pull me around. I have to say that I have only just begun to understand much of what I have read. Something I read a few days ago made me quite uncomfortable when I read it and I would like to know what some of you have to say about it, I feel I may be missing something. It goes like this: From purity arises dislike of ones own body and noncontact with others. (or) saucat sva-anga-jugupsa parair asamsargah. I can't read the latter section and can only guess about the translation. It comes from an online source. It is the Sadhana Pada part 40. I imagine there are more accurate terms for all of this but I don't know what they are, please forgive me. Additionally, I would like to ask about the value of or need for a teacher and how this interfaces with the 9 to 5 lifestyle I currently lead? Ok, so that last one might be a bit much, but I would be grateful for your input. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 1999 Report Share Posted July 4, 1999 > << If you have doubts about someone you should listen to those doubts > carefully. >> Hi Linda... I understand you saying this. This would be listening to your inner self (?), that gut feeling, intuitions - trusting yourself. Ah heck, I teach this stuff too. But your statement made me really think. (ohhh nooooo) Looking at doubt from another angle, I may have doubts come up about myself, and I've found -- once through much contemplation -- by really looking at the doubt as the content, along with the form, it is nothing but fear. Once the doubt/fear is finally let go of and/or surrendered, I realized there was no reason to doubt myself in the first place. Which makes me think that looking... really looking... at the doubt that comes up within us about another would be the way to go (if one is ready for that!), instead of looking at what the doubt is about, and playing out our role from that fearful angle. To me, it seems like a good first step to trusting ourself (by listening to the thoughts/feelings of doubt about another).... but to finally let go of ALL doubt as fear, whether it is about you or me, would be the next step to truly trusting another as ourself. Hey I'm just thinking out loud again here. Does this make sense to anyone? (Doubting myself again?) LOL Love, xxxtg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 1999 Report Share Posted July 4, 1999 Hello Jim: Welcome. There are some who are very knowledgeable in Sanskrit that might be able to give you an answer based on a literal translation. What is very important is detachment and discrimination. As one's mind becomes 'purified' a detachment from the physical does take place but that is different from 'dislike'. My understanding of 'purified' is freedom from greed, anger, lust, etc. those qualities that disturb the focus of the mind on the reality of the soul. IMO 'dislike' could be easily taken as detachment or an understanding that one is not the physical body. A teacher can be helpful and at certain points important. However, you should take your time and try your best to follow the inner self as a true teacher will take you to the inner self anyway. The old saying about when the student is ready the teacher will appear holds true but life itself is a wonderful teacher and one must be careful in choosing a physical teacher. It has been said that the Kali Yuga would produce many false teachers in the guise of spirituality and that is very true. If you have doubts about someone you should listen to those doubts carefully. As for the 9 to 5 lifestyle if you were meant to be learning in an environment outside of the mundane world God, Grace, Guru would have or will arrange that. Namaste, Linda > I am a relative newcomer to the list, I have been following the various >conversations for a month or so and have been moved many times by the >exchanges. I don't ascribe to any particular path, I just sort of allow >it to pull me around. I have to say that I have only just begun to >understand much of what I have read. Something I read a few days ago >made me quite uncomfortable when I read it and I would like to know what >some of you have to say about it, I feel I may be missing something. It >goes like this: > From purity arises dislike of ones own body and noncontact with others. >(or) saucat sva-anga-jugupsa parair asamsargah. > I can't read the latter section and can only guess about the >translation. It comes from an online source. It is the Sadhana Pada part >40. I imagine there are more accurate terms for all of this but I don't >know what they are, please forgive me. Additionally, I would like to ask >about the value of or need for a teacher and how this interfaces with >the 9 to 5 lifestyle I currently lead? Ok, so that last one might be a bit much, but I would be grateful for your input. Jim --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Looking for a new hobby? Want to make a new friend? Come join one of 180,000 e-mail communities at ONElist! ------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 1999 Report Share Posted July 5, 1999 Jim Scroggins wrote: > Something I read a few days ago > made me quite uncomfortable when I read it and I would like to know what > some of you have to say about it, I feel I may be missing something. It > goes like this: > > From purity arises dislike of ones own body and noncontact with others. To me it sounds a bit like something a Puritan zealot might say. But more importantly (for you) what does your uncomfortableness have to say? Perhaps wisdom is within, yes? > I would like to ask > about the value of or need for a teacher and how this interfaces with > the 9 to 5 lifestyle I currently lead? There's one true teacher that lies within all of us. Some feel the need to project this outward and experience a student/master relationship. Others do not. Some view each experience, intuition, sense or vibe as manifestations of the true inner teacher. To each their own... Blessings, David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 1999 Report Share Posted July 5, 1999 << noncontact with others >> --- I would see this not as avoidance of contact with others but the enjoyment of times of solitude and the opportunity for absorbing oneself in silence. There's nothing like lots of time alone for seeing the activities of the mind that veil the truth, and in the watching letting them fade away. The intimacy of this deepening awareness of Self is unmatched in any human relationships. Xan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 1999 Report Share Posted July 5, 1999 Linda Callanan wrote: > > "Linda Callanan" <shastra > > Hello Jim: > > Welcome. There are some who are very knowledgeable in Sanskrit that might > be able to give you an answer based on a literal translation. What is very > important is detachment and discrimination. As one's mind becomes > 'purified' a detachment from the physical does take place but that is > different from 'dislike'. My understanding of 'purified' is freedom from > greed, anger, lust, etc. those qualities that disturb the focus of the mind > on the reality of the soul. IMO 'dislike' could be easily taken as > detachment or an understanding that one is not the physical body. > > A teacher can be helpful and at certain points important. However, you > should take your time and try your best to follow the inner self as a true > teacher will take you to the inner self anyway. The old saying about when > the student is ready the teacher will appear holds true but life itself is a > wonderful teacher and one must be careful in choosing a physical teacher. > It has been said that the Kali Yuga would produce many false teachers in the > guise of spirituality and that is very true. If you have doubts about > someone you should listen to those doubts carefully. As for the 9 to 5 > lifestyle if you were meant to be learning in an environment outside of the > mundane world God, Grace, Guru would have or will arrange that. > > Namaste, > Linda > Thank you for responding, I find the notion of 'detatchment' easier to swallow than 'dislike', although the 'noncontact with others' part I still don't understand, it seems counter to the concept of satsangh. As for choosing a teacher, I have never spent much time looking, I have found that my own curiosities lead me to the answers I'm looking for most of the time and so far... I have relied on them almost exclusively. There are indeed many wonderfull oportunities for learning in life's everyday events. Thanks again, Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 1999 Report Share Posted July 5, 1999 > Jim Scroggins wrote: > > > Something I read a few days ago > > made me quite uncomfortable when I read it and I would like to know what > > some of you have to say about it, I feel I may be missing something. It > > goes like this: > > > > From purity arises dislike of ones own body and noncontact with others. (or) saucat sva-anga-jugupsa parair asamsargah. David Bozzi: > To me it sounds a bit like something a Puritan zealot might say. > But more importantly (for you) what does your uncomfortableness have to say? > Perhaps wisdom is within, yes? Jim: I agree, there is something to be learned from this feeling I've gotten from that passage, otherwise, it would not have caused a reaction. I like my body and enjoy contact with others, so my discomfort flows from fear of losing something I suppose. I would still like to know if anybody disagrees with the translation, seeing as how I can't read the sanskrit, and translations are notoriously incomplete. Peace, Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 1999 Report Share Posted July 5, 1999 LeTeegee wrote: > Once the doubt/fear is finally let go of and/or surrendered, I realized there was no > reason to doubt myself in the first place. You sure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 1999 Report Share Posted July 5, 1999 Hi xxxtg: I certainly understand seeing doubt as fear and then looking within at the fear. It was that approach that led to a great amount of challenge in my life with a specific person. Rather than really look at the person I kept bringing it back to myself and while it was a worthwhile exercise for it did uncover lots of 'sludge' within which is always good. However, it is a good practice to be able to look at others at the same time as you look at yourself. A high price was paid for not listening to the knot in my stomach or the headache that often followed encounters with this person. Funny thing is that what I feared losing the most I lost anyway with the added addition of not quite trusting my own judgement anymore. So now there are new fears and doubts added to the mix. Just me thinking out loud. Thanks for the input. Linda >I understand you saying this. This would be listening to your inner self >(?), that gut feeling, intuitions - trusting yourself. Ah heck, I teach >this stuff too. >But your statement made me really think. (ohhh nooooo) >Looking at doubt from another angle, I may have doubts come up about myself, >and I've found -- once through much contemplation -- by really looking at the >doubt as the content, along with the form, it is nothing but fear. Once the >doubt/fear is finally let go of and/or surrendered, I realized there was no >reason to doubt myself in the first place. >Which makes me think that looking... really looking... at the doubt that >comes up within us about another would be the way to go (if one is ready for >that!), instead of looking at what the doubt is about, and playing out our >role from that fearful angle. >To me, it seems like a good first step to trusting ourself (by listening to >the thoughts/feelings of doubt about another).... but to finally let go of >ALL doubt as fear, whether it is about you or me, would be the next step to >truly trusting another as ourself. >Hey I'm just thinking out loud again here. Does this make sense to anyone? >Doubting myself again?) LOL Love, xxxtg --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Attention ONElist list owners! /info/news.html Check out the new "DEFAULT MODERATED STATUS" option. ------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 1999 Report Share Posted July 5, 1999 In a message dated 7/5/99 1:20:48 PM Mountain Daylight Time, shastra writes: << Which makes me think that looking... really looking... at the doubt that >comes up within us about another would be the way to go (if one is ready >for that!), instead of looking at what the doubt is about, and playing out our >role from that fearful angle. >> --- Looking at doubt itself and not at what is being doubted takes us back to origins. Could we say that the original moment of forgetting what we are was Doubt? In that case, is doubt an activity and attitude I would want to encourage in myself? Discrimination does not have the same energy. It can allow us to go toward truth and away from distortion and confusion. It can also watch for doubt and turn away from it when it appears. I find that by giving everything to Silence, It directs and leads, and eliminates any possible usefulness of mental discrimination, as well as doubt. Xan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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