Guest guest Posted July 9, 1999 Report Share Posted July 9, 1999 Tim Harris writes: >>>[...]. Can one >>> that is awake >>> shake the attachment to sleep? jb writes: >>It is very rare and called "the last transformation". It means one is awake, >>literally independent of conditions imposed by the mind-body like breathing. Tim Gerchmez writes: >I would have to see some independent verification before I would even begin >to believe this. I would bet you could not come up with a single >scientifically documented case, only a case or two "documented" via hearsay >after hearsay after hearsay... Greg: Verification of what? Transformation of what? Speaking in total ignorance here of what *jb* is referring to by "last transformation," but it seems to me that whatever transforms would have to be the physical or subtle body. And neither of them is present, according to advaita vedanta, during all three states of wakefulness, dreaming and deep sleep. (More speculation) It may be that the physical body can be trained to go without sleep, jsut as there are, I've heard, bodies that go without food for years at a time (called "breatharians"). Let's say this non-sleeping thing could happen. What makes it more than a physical feat? If someone takes credit for it, then it hasn't signified "awakening" for that person. If no one takes credit for it, it seems not to have been necessary. Maybe jb can throw more light on this... Regards, --Greg is awake through the three states can't be anything particular to one of the states (like the physical body, which in adviata vedanta is said not to exist in dream and deep sleep). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 1999 Report Share Posted July 9, 1999 Greg Goode wrote: > I've heard, bodies that go without food > for years at a time (called "breatharians"). Yes, and I've heard that Elvis is still alive and that aliens regularly visit folk most likely to appear on the 'Springer' show... What's any of this have to do with spirituality? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 1999 Report Share Posted July 9, 1999 At 11:54 AM 7/9/99 -0400, David Bozzi wrote: >Greg Goode wrote: > >> I've heard, bodies that go without food >> for years at a time (called "breatharians"). > >Yes, and I've heard that Elvis is still alive and that aliens regularly visit >folk most likely to appear on the 'Springer' show... > >What's any of this have to do with spirituality? Nothing really. But I can see how it comes - one of my friends is interested in breatharianism. As Sri Atmananda said, "What we think we are, we see outside." So if I think I am a body, then what I see around me consists of bodies. Then my idea about spirituality is to improve/purify the body. Same for mind or intellect, if I think that's what I am. A friend of mine is interested in breatharianism, because he thinks it's a siddhi, and even though he likes non-dualism, he just can't help himself. There's a breatharian web page: http://reikifire.org/nf-prana.html And a sceptical one as well: http://www.hcrc.org/diction/b.html Regards, --Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 1999 Report Share Posted July 9, 1999 Greg Goode wrote: > I've heard, bodies that go without food > for years at a time (called "breatharians"). David wrote: >Yes, and I've heard that Elvis is still alive and that aliens regularly visit >folk most likely to appear on the 'Springer' show... >What's any of this have to do with spirituality? Spirituality is the knowing of self to be non-individual, the atman which can not be destroyed and requires no physical support to be. It would appear that a being who has moved past the physical into being able to manifest on the physical plane by means other than food would indeed be a spiritual matter. There are probably very few who have reached that level in an incarnation but it is just as valid as subject as any other of the intellectual brain teases that pass for spirituality. Linda --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Having difficulty getting "in synch" with list members? Try ONElist's Shared Calendar to organize events, meetings and more! ------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 1999 Report Share Posted July 9, 1999 Greg Goode wrote: > Greg Goode <goode > > At 11:54 AM 7/9/99 -0400, David Bozzi wrote: > > >Greg Goode wrote: > > > >> I've heard, bodies that go without food > >> for years at a time (called "breatharians"). > > > >Yes, and I've heard that Elvis is still alive and that aliens regularly visit > >folk most likely to appear on the 'Springer' show... > > > >What's any of this have to do with spirituality? > > Nothing really. But I can see how it comes - one of my friends is > interested in breatharianism. As Sri Atmananda said, "What we think we > are, we see outside." So if I think I am a body, then what I see around me > consists of bodies. Then my idea about spirituality is to improve/purify > the body. Same for mind or intellect, if I think that's what I am. > > A friend of mine is interested in breatharianism, because he thinks it's a > siddhi, and even though he likes non-dualism, he just can't help himself. > There's a breatharian web page: > http://reikifire.org/nf-prana.html > > And a sceptical one as well: > http://www.hcrc.org/diction/b.html > > Regards, > > --Greg If I eat, I will live until I die. If I don't eat, I will live until I die. andrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 1999 Report Share Posted July 9, 1999 << Greg: I've heard, bodies that go without food > for years at a time (called "breatharians"). >David: Yes, and I've heard that Elvis is still alive and that aliens regularly >visit folk most likely to appear on the 'Springer' show... >What's any of this have to do with spirituality? Linda: Spirituality is the knowing of self to be non-individual, the atman which can not be destroyed and requires no physical support to be. It would appear that a being who has moved past the physical into being able to manifest on the physical plane by means other than food would indeed be a spiritual matter. There are probably very few who have reached that level in an incarnation but it is just as valid as subject as any other of the intellectual brain teases that pass for spirituality. --- I've read some lives of saints. There are a few sweet stories of people for whom eating just faded away. One Indian saint that I read of didn't even drink water. Another, a catholic woman, was given one communion wafer a day. None of the saints I read about had this as a goal, did anything to achieve it, and none called themselves breatharians. The common quality was their passionate absorption in the divine. xan >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 1999 Report Share Posted July 9, 1999 > Tim Harris writes: > >>>[...]. Can one > >>> that is awake > >>> shake the attachment to sleep? > > jb writes: > >>It is very rare and called "the last transformation". It means one is awake, > >>literally independent of conditions imposed by the mind-body like breathing. > > Tim Gerchmez writes: > >I would have to see some independent verification before I would even begin > >to believe this. I would bet you could not come up with a single > >scientifically documented case, only a case or two "documented" via hearsay > >after hearsay after hearsay... Sri Nisargadatta was asked once whether he was unconscious when asleep. He answered 'Yes' but (a big but!) I am aware that I am unconscious! (He defined consciousness as depending on an object and awareness as being able to 'exist' by itself). I.O.W, he was unaware of anything outside himself yet self-aware (in a non-objective sense). Also, Ramana seemed to be in state of 'wakeful sleep' most, if not all, of the time. In fact he 'defined' the Sahaja Samadhi state as consisting of the consciousness of the waking state together with the 'unparticularized' state of deep sleep. (Jagrat-Sushupti, wakeful sleep). Regards, Jelke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 1999 Report Share Posted July 9, 1999 Linda Callanan wrote: > Spirituality is the knowing of self to be non-individual, the atman which > can not be destroyed and requires no physical support to be. It would > appear that a being who has moved past the physical into being able to > manifest on the physical plane Umm... ur... move past the physical into being able to manifest on the physical plane? > by means other than food would indeed be a > spiritual matter. There are probably very few who have reached that level > in an incarnation but it is just as valid as subject as any other of the > intellectual brain teases that pass for spirituality. Yes, I agree, as valid as 'intellectual brain teases' that pass for spirituality. Carry on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 1999 Report Share Posted July 9, 1999 Greg Goode wrote: > A friend of mine is interested in breatharianism, because he thinks it's a > siddhi, and even though he likes non-dualism, he just can't help himself. > There's a breatharian web page: > http://reikifire.org/nf-prana.html Thanks for link Greg & your sincere response. I took the liberty to quote a line from the site that fairly summarizes it's message: "Then give yourself the pleasure and the gift of not eating food for a few months or even years or however long it takes to PROVE TO YOU that this pranic force is sustaining you fully and that you really do not need to eat." I'd just say that I'm reminded of the story where Jesus is at the top of church steeple with Satan, and Satan tells Jesus to jump, for the angels will catch him, and Jesus replies, 'Thall shall not test the Lord your God." > And a sceptical one as well: > http://www.hcrc.org/diction/b.html Haven't looked at this one yet. Thanks again, David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 1999 Report Share Posted July 9, 1999 > Greg Goode <goode [...] > (More speculation) It may be that the physical body can be trained to go > without sleep, jsut as there are, I've heard, bodies that go without food > for years at a time (called "breatharians"). Let's say this non-sleeping > thing could happen. What makes it more than a physical feat? If someone > takes credit for it, then it hasn't signified "awakening" for that person. > If no one takes credit for it, it seems not to have been necessary. Maybe > jb can throw more light on this... > > Regards, > > --Greg There are a lot of siddhis and the majority is listed in the Patanjali Sutras chapter III. They can be related to K. and are an obstacle to liberation. If non sleeping is a siddhi, it is equally worthless. The most practical "workbook of realization" is by referring to K. From this perspective, K. has to rise, "unite with...", pierce the heart center (on the right) and then, has to disappear. When K. and its effects have vanished this is called "last transformation" and the analogy is that the match, causing the fire, finally burned down itself. This has several consequences and one is the disappearance of instincts like sleep. It is natural now and not a siddhi. A far more interesting side effect is that when "awake" is no longer superimposed on sleep, dreaming and the "formerly physically" being awake, the "world" looses its seemingly solid (physical) nature, just like in dream, where mind creates all the objects that can be manipulated, when the dream becomes lucid. So one doesn't have to deal with concepts, theory and speculation anymore and these crutches burn down too History only provides two examples, Hermes Trismegistus and the Buddha. Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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