Guest guest Posted July 9, 1999 Report Share Posted July 9, 1999 Message: 15 Fri, 09 Jul 1999 14:09:08 -0400 David Bozzi <david.bozzi Re: Jesus, boxes, and sacred space Gloria Lee wrote: > Now, whether it is your opinion that this action or the belief > motivating it demonstrates ego or non-ego, and whatever ego means > to you - possibly says more about you than it does about Jesus. If I know you but I don't know myself I know neither of us. That's why its called projection.. I am fond of saying that "my Jesus" is beyond needing defending, still I do it anyway, sometimes. No one knows his heart... we are only talking about ourselves, when we claim to understand him or to speak for him. I just tho't as a novel idea, we might try taking His word for it, instead of making up our own story. If someone invaded our sacred space here with ads and sales pitches, would we mind? Though I'm not a big fan of clarity as it's often too confusing for most people, I'll indulge briefly. (Ha! I do inspire you, admit it?) Ego is the sky, the sun, the rain, your brain it is the manifestation of pure power itself. Ego is our shadow, the past, the future, wounding and healing. Ego serves the pure power of divinity when it's realized that we can never know what ego is... but ego can behave like a legion of demons once we think we know what ego is... Clear enough? G: Yes. Won't fit in a box, either. > He seems to be one of those Rorshach tests, which reminds me to > mention David's Ink Blot poetry page for Xan and others new to us. > > I re-found it doing a search for Ink Blot Poetry...maybe David > would kindly repeat the URL? http://pages.cthome.net/InkBlot/ (also shamelessly promoted in the 'Organization' space of my e-mail headers) G: It doesn't get thru on mine, headers are eliminated. Thanks, I hope the people new to here will go look..its really worth reading. David has like the most untrite, unique way of making such interesting observations.. dare I call it clarity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 1999 Report Share Posted July 9, 1999 Gloria Lee wrote: > That's why its called projection.. I am fond of saying that "my > Jesus" is beyond needing defending, still I do it anyway, > sometimes. No one knows his heart... we are only talking about > ourselves, when we claim to understand him or to speak for him. I > just tho't as a novel idea, we might try taking His word for it, > instead of making up our own story. If someone invaded our sacred > space here with ads and sales pitches, would we mind? I'm no Jesus basher. Wonderful man, I'm sure. > Though I'm not a big fan of clarity as it's > often too confusing for most people, I'll indulge briefly. > > (Ha! I do inspire you, admit it?) Yes you do. I'm sure I'll get a poem out of that. Thank-you. > G: Thanks, I > hope the people new to here will go look..its really worth > reading. David has like the most untrite, unique way of making > such interesting observations.. dare I call it clarity? Thanx, I noticed your work is on Samuel's site and I do think it is fantastic (I can't write like that). Care to spill the URL? Stay Inspired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 1999 Report Share Posted July 9, 1999 Hi Glo and David, This discussion really interests me: >If I know you but I don't know myself >I know neither of us. > >That's why its called projection.. I am fond of saying that "my >Jesus" is beyond needing defending, still I do it anyway, >sometimes. No one knows his heart... we are only talking about >ourselves, when we claim to understand him or to speak for him. I >just tho't as a novel idea, we might try taking His word for it, >instead of making up our own story. Glo and David, I'm really resonating with what you're *both* saying here. The first thought that comes to mind after reading this was, "Sure, I'll take His word for it. Now, where does that Word come from? From the Gospel of Thomas? From the New Testament? Whose version of the 'Word' do we take...which Gospel writer? Which translation? How about this one: "I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: I in them and you in me." John 17:23 If we accept as true what John says He says, doesn't that then circle us back around to the original idea here of David's? If we know thru our Self that we are one, if we truly know that... then we *automatically* know our brothers and sisters. If we think we know our brothers and sisters, yet do not yet know the oneness.... we do not know anyone. Especially not Jesus. Yet, that's where people tend to keep focusing their attention....on what others are saying, what others are thinking, what splinters can be found in other's eyes, what 'holes' or inconsistencies we can find in others' beliefs and visions.... "Jesus said, 'Many are standing at the door, but it is the solitary who will enter the bridal chamber.' " Gospel of Thomas Saying #75 Melody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 1999 Report Share Posted July 9, 1999 Hi Melody, I really can not add much to what you've said other than I can't help but notice your genuine inspiration which is truly inspiring. Thank-you, David Melody wrote: > Melody <melody > > Hi Glo and David, > > This discussion really interests me: > > >If I know you but I don't know myself > >I know neither of us. > > > > >That's why its called projection.. I am fond of saying that "my > >Jesus" is beyond needing defending, still I do it anyway, > >sometimes. No one knows his heart... we are only talking about > >ourselves, when we claim to understand him or to speak for him. I > >just tho't as a novel idea, we might try taking His word for it, > >instead of making up our own story. > > Glo and David, I'm really resonating with what > you're *both* saying here. The first thought that > comes to mind after reading this was, "Sure, > I'll take His word for it. Now, where > does that Word come from? From the Gospel > of Thomas? From the New Testament? Whose > version of the 'Word' do we take...which > Gospel writer? Which translation? > > How about this one: > > "I have given them the glory that you gave > me, that they may be one as we are one: I > in them and you in me." > John 17:23 > > If we accept as true what John says He says, > doesn't that then circle us back around to > the original idea here of David's? > > If we know thru our Self that we are one, > if we truly know that... > then we *automatically* know our brothers > and sisters. If we think we know our > brothers and sisters, yet do not yet > know the oneness.... we do not know > anyone. Especially not Jesus. > > Yet, that's where people tend to keep > focusing their attention....on what others > are saying, > what others are thinking, what splinters > can be found in other's eyes, what > 'holes' or inconsistencies we can find > in others' beliefs and visions.... > > "Jesus said, 'Many are standing at the door, > but it is the solitary who will enter the > bridal chamber.' " > Gospel of Thomas > Saying #75 > > Melody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 1999 Report Share Posted July 9, 1999 Message: 20 Fri, 09 Jul 1999 18:47:21 -0500 Melody <melody Re: Jesus, boxes,sacred space Hi Glo and David, This discussion really interests me: >If I know you but I don't know myself >I know neither of us. > >That's why its called projection.. I am fond of saying that "my >Jesus" is beyond needing defending, still I do it anyway, >sometimes. No one knows his heart... we are only talking about >ourselves, when we claim to understand him or to speak for him. I >just tho't as a novel idea, we might try taking His word for it, >instead of making up our own story. Glo and David, I'm really resonating with what you're *both* saying here. The first thought that comes to mind after reading this was, "Sure, I'll take His word for it. Now, where does that Word come from? From the Gospel of Thomas? From the New Testament? Whose version of the 'Word' do we take...which Gospel writer? Which translation? Glo:I suppose people will choose whatever translations resonate with what they already want to believe, all that is way beyond the scope of my abilities, anyway. When I said "my Jesus" I was admitting I have my own projection, its even changed over the years. Isn't that what "we all" do? The wide variation in layers of meanings assigned to any ONE event, such as the temple cleansing hardly depends solely on the translation used. Defending sacred space is an understandable concept, whatever the words used to describe it. Are very different reasons for this action given in different Bible translations? I dunno, I just wrote that from memory...feel free to laugh. People trying to put Jesus in all sorts of boxes, does it prove he had ego, what's ego, no one seemed to be discussing the sacred space idea, so I threw it in. Golly day, have you ever known one man to be "seen" so differently? Is there a "fundamentalist" version of Buddhism? How about this one: "I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: I in them and you in me." John 17:23 If we accept as true what John says He says, doesn't that then circle us back around to the original idea here of David's? Glo: I came in late..just about the boxes..I'm glad you showed me this came first. If we know thru our Self that we are one, if we truly know that... then we *automatically* know our brothers and sisters. If we think we know our brothers and sisters, yet do not yet know the oneness.... we do not know anyone. Especially not Jesus. This is cool. David wrote this below or you? Yet, that's where people tend to keep focusing their attention....on what others are saying, what others are thinking, what splinters can be found in other's eyes, what 'holes' or inconsistencies we can find in others' beliefs and visions.... "Jesus said, 'Many are standing at the door, but it is the solitary who will enter the bridal chamber.' " Gospel of Thomas Saying #75 Melody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 1999 Report Share Posted July 10, 1999 I concur with David's sentiments. This is excellent stuff. I particularly resonate with the quote from St. Thomas on being solitary. And the whole context in which you placed that is exquisite. Having said that -- as we "walk our solitary being of truth," there is room for dialogue and exchange of ideas. If one sees things one way and another sees things another way -- dialogue can occur. To me, the question is, can we respect each other as "solitary ones" while we have this give and take? That seems the big challenge here. Appreciatively, Dan At 09:09 PM 7/9/99 -0400, you wrote: >David Bozzi <david.bozzi > >Hi Melody, > >I really can not add much to what you've said >other than I can't help but notice your genuine inspiration >which is truly inspiring. > >Thank-you, >David > >Melody wrote: > >> Melody <melody >> >> Hi Glo and David, >> >> This discussion really interests me: >> >> >If I know you but I don't know myself >> >I know neither of us. >> > >> >> >That's why its called projection.. I am fond of saying that "my >> >Jesus" is beyond needing defending, still I do it anyway, >> >sometimes. No one knows his heart... we are only talking about >> >ourselves, when we claim to understand him or to speak for him. I >> >just tho't as a novel idea, we might try taking His word for it, >> >instead of making up our own story. >> >> Glo and David, I'm really resonating with what >> you're *both* saying here. The first thought that >> comes to mind after reading this was, "Sure, >> I'll take His word for it. Now, where >> does that Word come from? From the Gospel >> of Thomas? From the New Testament? Whose >> version of the 'Word' do we take...which >> Gospel writer? Which translation? >> >> How about this one: >> >> "I have given them the glory that you gave >> me, that they may be one as we are one: I >> in them and you in me." >> John 17:23 >> >> If we accept as true what John says He says, >> doesn't that then circle us back around to >> the original idea here of David's? >> >> If we know thru our Self that we are one, >> if we truly know that... >> then we *automatically* know our brothers >> and sisters. If we think we know our >> brothers and sisters, yet do not yet >> know the oneness.... we do not know >> anyone. Especially not Jesus. >> >> Yet, that's where people tend to keep >> focusing their attention....on what others >> are saying, >> what others are thinking, what splinters >> can be found in other's eyes, what >> 'holes' or inconsistencies we can find >> in others' beliefs and visions.... >> >> "Jesus said, 'Many are standing at the door, >> but it is the solitary who will enter the >> bridal chamber.' " >> Gospel of Thomas >> Saying #75 >> >> Melody > > > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Congratulations KNICKS (AT) ONElist (DOT) com. Our latest ONElist of the week. > >How is ONElist changing YOUR life? Visit our homepage and let us know! > >------ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 1999 Report Share Posted July 10, 1999 Dan Berkow, PhD wrote: <snip> > If one sees things one way > and another sees things another way -- > dialogue can occur. > > To me, the question is, can we > respect each other as "solitary ones" > while we have this give and take? > That seems the big challenge here. Marcia: Looking at the conditioned in the light of the unconditioned. I see it as a circle. We are all both in the circle and outside the circle. Inside the circle is the conditioned, outside the unconditioned. The dialogue takes place inside the circle. To the extent that we can stay outside the circle we can carry on a dialogue which respects ourselves as "solitary ones". Being inside the circle is not a bad thing however but can serve as a reminder that in simultaneous time we can also be outside the circle. Friction is only a reminder that someone is identified with their position inside the circle. It is a wake up call. The key is that everyone taking part in the dialogue has to have experienced the reality of the unconditioned. Otherwise they just bounce from position to position inside the circle. Even that is okay and is actually perfect. (I am identified at the moment with my thinking abilities. I just had a close friend say my thinking was obvious. Ha Ha) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 1999 Report Share Posted July 10, 1999 At 01:25 PM 7/10/99 -0400, you wrote: >"Dan Berkow, PhD" <berkowd > >I concur with David's sentiments. >This is excellent stuff. >I particularly resonate with the >quote from St. Thomas on being >solitary. And the whole context >in which you placed that is exquisite. > >Having said that -- as we "walk our >solitary being of truth," >there is room for dialogue and >exchange of ideas. > >If one sees things one way >and another sees things another way -- >dialogue can occur. > >To me, the question is, can we >respect each other as "solitary ones" >while we have this give and take? >That seems the big challenge here. > >Appreciatively, >Dan > Thank you, Dan. I agree that it is indeed our challenge. Some days I meet that challenge better than others. :-) What's so nice about Harsha's and Jerry's place is that there is the recognition that sometimes as we walk, we fall. Not only do our walking buddies here understand this, but they are often there standing next to us, ready to give us a hand "up"... whether we ask for one, or not. I'm glad you're here. Melody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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