Sirius A and Sirius B

[Guest guest]

As with each satsangh i have entered, please accept my most humble

thanks! I am present here not only with many beautiful personages, but

most significantly - with the living presence of divine love.

Thank you all for holding this 'coming togetherness".

 

Thought I would pass this little story forward.

Harsha, do you see any hindu correlation's with this

oral Maori teaching?

 

Some five years ago, visiting America the first time

from New Zealand, came a man on a walkabout,

who went by "Mackie". He was accompanied by an elderly

british patron. Forget her name.

 

I came to meet with Mackie, by chance. He found the name

a few Kansas Citians were calling me at that time, 'Dogstar' very

signifigant, and proceeded to tell me about his walk about.

 

He related being brought up by maternal Grandmothers and being taught

his people's art of 'star watching'. He said the Maori

tribes' role for its proper relation to earth community, was

"Time Keeping". Some kind of very old astrology, with built in alarm

features, i.e.: Mackie. I guess no snooze?:)

 

His childhood training was for a walkabout to

america, when he had grown to be a man.. The Info he was to be

sharing consisted of the current earth centric "conjunction" of the

bi-polar relationship of Sirius A and Sirius B. As the two stars align

on an axis directly with Earth, It was said to him that an

opening with-in human conscience became possible.

 

He explained this by drawing, (in the dirt, in front of the house)

our symbol for infinity (Erin, my wife, interjects>Mobius Strip...)

and showed that the opposing forces (A and B) of the Sirius system, had

a

focus, "the point in-between", he said. He said the present alignment,

Earth:

about 1990-2010, created a "transparency" of the veil between worlds.

 

He said it was know, that at anytime a person could within themselves

"See",

but that the Guide Star, or Dogstar constellation, gave this "vision" to

all

peoples of Earth during this period of time.

 

This so-called 'planetary awaking/awareness' he spoke of,

I was understanding more in terms

of 'Conscious Mind's' ability to see past a veil

into 'Subconscious Mind'; to glimpse

motivations, underpinnings, etc.,

with clarity.

 

It would allow within each of us,

a very clear picture of what we

were choosing at this time.

 

BTW- the Maori's Star chart shows this occurrance happening once

every 90,000 years, and Mackie spoke of this 'enlightening focus'

in terms of the Markers of succeeding Ages.

 

If interested, I would write more on Mackie's visit to Kansas City.

 

My heart does peel in joy to be with you, here. Much Love,

 

Dogstar:)(:

Eric Laing, Kansas City, Missouri

[Guest guest]

Hello Eric,

 

Welcome!

>Thought I would pass this little story forward.

>Harsha, do you see any hindu correlation's with this

>oral Maori teaching?

 

This is fascinating!

>

>Some five years ago, visiting America the first time

>from New Zealand, came a man on a walkabout,

>who went by "Mackie". He was accompanied by an elderly

>british patron. Forget her name.

>

>I came to meet with Mackie, by chance. He found the name

>a few Kansas Citians were calling me at that time, 'Dogstar'

 

How does it happen that you are called "Dogstar"?

>very

>signifigant, and proceeded to tell me about his walk about.

>

>He related being brought up by maternal Grandmothers and being taught

>his people's art of 'star watching'. He said the Maori

>tribes' role for its proper relation to earth community, was

>"Time Keeping". Some kind of very old astrology, with built in alarm

>features, i.e.: Mackie. I guess no snooze?:)

>

>His childhood training was for a walkabout to

>america, when he had grown to be a man.. The Info he was to be

>sharing consisted of the current earth centric "conjunction" of the

>bi-polar relationship of Sirius A and Sirius B. As the two stars align

>on an axis directly with Earth, It was said to him that an

>opening with-in human conscience became possible.

 

Sirius was the great star of the ancient Egyptians; they called it Sothis,

a name for Isis. Their calendar was based on the heliacal rising of Sirius

once a year. And it seems that the initiates believed that at the end of

their development, they would go to Sirius.

 

There is a good deal of material on Sirius in the DK/Alice A. Bailey books.

It is said to stand in a special relationship with the Earth, functioning

somewhat as a higher center. Bailey came from the Theosophist tradition

and broke with Blavatsky... you might find more on Sirius in Blavatsky's

books. Her material is supposed to have come from sources in India and

Tibet, but I'm not sure anyone can find it now. There was one of those

stories about rishis in a cave with secret ancient writings... so secret

that no one else can go and study them.

>He explained this by drawing, (in the dirt, in front of the house)

>our symbol for infinity (Erin, my wife, interjects>Mobius Strip...)

>and showed that the opposing forces (A and B) of the Sirius system, had

>a

>focus, "the point in-between", he said.

 

This rings a bell... a book I read. I checked the web - here's a capsule

version:

>Dogon: An African Tribe Who Knew The Stars

>

>In the '50's two french anthropologists, Germain Dieterlen and Marcel

>Griaule, spent some years among the Dogons. They published an article on

>the experience in "Journal de la société des Africanistes" called "Un

>System Soudanais de Sirius". In the 60's Robert K.G. Temple got to know

>the article, which he used as a base for his book, "The Sirius Mystery".

>What was it all about? Well, the fact is that the Dogon showed an

>impossible knowledge about the stars and the planets. The Dogon had a

>ceremony called Sigui: the priests of the tribe, wearing masks, performed

>a complex ritual dance. It was a renewal ceremony, based on the apparent

>movement of Sirius, known as the dog star, located in the "Canis Major"

>constellation, a little below Orion. The amazing disclosure about the

>Dogon tribe was that they knew of much more than Sirius, which was the

>base of this ritual ceremony; they knew the existence of Sirius B, a white

>dwarf of extreme density belonging to the Sirius system as a twin star of

>Sirius A, and back then mostly unknown and barely visible with a very

>powerful telescope. In fact, it was not until 1970 that Sirius B was

>photographed for the first time by Irving Lindenblad. Marcel Griaule had

>been told the secret religious knowledge of the Dogon, after a proper

>ritual preparation. The Dogon claimed they had known about Sirius B, which

>they called the Digitary star, by fish-like beings called Nommo, who came

>from Sirius thousands of years before. Their ritual masks, hundreds of

>years old, are all about the Sirius cult. Further more, the Dogon knew the

>Moon is dry and dead, they knew the Saturn rings and the Jupiter moons.

>-snip-

- http://cristalweb.com/ethno/dogon.html

 

The Dogon actually speak of two companions of Sirius:

>The Dogon name for Sirius B (Po Tolo) consists of the word for star (tolo)

>and "po," the name of the smallest seed known to them. By this name they

>describe the star's smallness - it is, they say, "the smallest thing there

>is." They also claim that it is "the heaviest star," and white. The Dogon

>thus attribute to Sirius B its three principle properties as a white

>dwarf: small, heavy, white.

>

>They go on to say that it has an elliptical orbit, with Sirius A at one

>foci of the ellipse (as it is), that the orbital period is 50 years (the

>actual figure is 50.04 +/- 0.09 years), and that the star rotates on its

>own axis (it does). The Dogon also describe a third star in the Sirius

>system, called "Emme Ya" ("Sorghum Female"). In orbit around this star,

>they say, is a single satellite. To date, Emme Ya has not been identified

>by astronomers.

- http://emerald.oz.net/jz/sphinxv.html

 

 

I found the article by Dieterlen and Griaule fascinating and credible...

it is a work of science. The chief arguments against the Dogons having

this information from ancient times involve the possibility that someone

passed on to them, at any time from the 1890s onward, the prevailing

speculations about Sirius... and that they then incorporated them into

their religion and corpus of transmitted knowledge.

 

Temple's book seemed worthless to me. It's another von Danniken-type of

book, using far-fetched bases for drawing extravagant conclusions about

ancient astronauts. The one reason to buy this book is that it includes in

an appendix the entire Dieterlen-Griaule article in English translation.

 

Here's some more from James Oberg, in _UFOs and Outer Space Mysteries_,

Donning Press, 1982, Chapter Six, found excerpted here:

http://www.patriarchy.com/~sheaffer/texts/dogon.html

>snip<

>These fascinating Dogon legends speak of Jupiter's four moons and Saturn's

>rings, which were not seen by human beings until the invention of the

>telescope. They speak of the star Sirius and of a pair of invisible

>companions. One of them circles Sirius every fifty years, the legends

>declare, and is made of a metal that is the heaviest thing in the

>universe. Astronomers have discovered that such an object (called

>"Sirius-B") does exist but only the most sophisticated and sensitive

>instruments - unavailable, of course, to the Dogons - can detect it.

>

>The planets circle the sun, the tribesmen believe (and astronomy

>confirms), in elliptical orbits. And planets with different kinds of

>people on them circle six other stars in the sky - so the legends have it.

>

>snip<

>Strangely, ancient records explicitly list Sirius as one of six "red

>stars." The other five are still seen as red but from the time

>of Arab astronomers to the present day Sirius has been blue-white.

>

>snip<

>Sirius figures prominently in the Dogon myths. The tribe has a periodic

>Sirius festival called the "Segui" ceremony; each

>celebration lasts several years (the last was in 1968-72.) The interval

>between ceremonies may be forty, fifty or sixty years.

>

>Through the carbon dating of old ritual masks researchers have established

>the antiquity of the Segui ceremonies. Such

>criteria suggest that these periodic festivals have been going on for at

>least 600 years and possibly much longer.

>

>long snip giving all the arguments against the ancient knowledge and

>against the book<

>

>Nevertheless the Sumerian Oannes myths [Oannes was the fish-man who came

>from the sea, bringing writing and the arts of civilization], first

>described by Sagan and Shklovskiy in Intelligent Life in the Universe in

>1966, are as intriguing as ever. In a recent book, The Once and Future

>Star (Hawthorn Books, 1977), George Michanowsky identifies "Oannes" as a

>Hellenized version of the Sumerian name Ea; he theorizes that the myths

>may refer to a gigantic supernova. Modern astronomers have discovered the

>remains of the supernova Vela-X in a constellation which would have been

>visible in the low southern sky from Sumer.

>

>The mystery of the ancient "red" Sirius also remains baffling. Some

>astronomers speculate that the white dwarf Sirius B might have been a

>flaming red giant only 2000 years ago although current astrophysical

>theories decree that any such transformation in less than 100,000 years is

>impossible. Other ancient astronomical records make no mention of Sirius

>being red.

>

>Meanwhile the Dogon myths continue to baffle investigators. The obviously

>advanced astronomical knowledge must have come from somewhere, but is it

>an ancient bequest or a modern graft? Although Temple fails to prove its

>antiquity, the evidence for the recent acquisition of the information is

>still entirely circumstantial.

>

>Dogon descriptions of Jupiter, Saturn and Sirius remind one of Jonathan

>Swift's uncanny description of the two undiscovered moons of Mars. But

>that isn't the only parallel. Swift appears to have taken the idea of two

>close (although not necessarily small) moons of Mars from Voltaire's novel

>Micromegos in which an extraterrestrial visitor tells earthmen about the

>undiscovered Martian moons. And from what star system does the visitor

>come? You guessed it - Sirius!

>

>In 1977 two radio astronomers were interested enough in the Sirius mystery

>to direct their telescopes at the star system in hopes of picking up any

>artificial radio signals. None were detected, -snip-

>

>So where does this leave the mysteries of Sirius? The antiquity of the

>Dogon astronomy is not so obvious as ancient astronaut enthusiasts claim

>but neither has it been disproved. The ancient records are filled with

>unanswered astronomical questions - including the "red Sirius" and the

>possible Sumerian Ea-Oannes references to the spectacular Vela-X

>supernova. The Dogon myths may or may not be related to these other

>putties (or even to Kepler's supernova, which has been seriously

>suggested.) It seems likely that we will never know for sure.

>

>Whatever their place in the search for extraterrestrial contact, the Dogon

>myths are certainly odd. The Stone Age storytellers speak by their

>campfires of other people on other planets and of other mysteries. Our

>mysteries may be different but our questions are the same and we are no

>wiser.

>From the emerald.oz.net site:

>ASTRONOMY AND ASTROPHYSICS. (Volume 299, 1995) pp. 621-628. - In 1995, two

>French Astronomers published the results of years of study, stating that a

>small, red-dwarf star seems to exist in the Sirius star system. They have

>detected a perturbation in the orbit that cannot be explained by any other

>means. Article was received, October 11, 1994, and accepted for

>publication on November 8, 1994.

 

>If interested, I would write more on Mackie's visit to Kansas City.

 

I'd be interested!

 

Love,

Dharma

[Guest guest]

Dharma wrote: ( or is it FischerKing?...

 

Eric wrote:

> >

> >I came to meet with Mackie, by chance. He found the name

> >a few Kansas Citians were calling me at that time, 'Dogstar'

>

> How does it happen that you are called "Dogstar"?

 

.........A local, Lee Veal, 'Genesha', said that name kept comming to him.

Despite mymultiple dog-like habits, I tried on the monkier - mostly because it

made me unconfortable

 

> >Dogon: An African Tribe Who Knew The Stars

 

..........See also Mayan Surfers, and my friend from the Maoris. Austrailian

Aboriginal's supposedlyalso star walk, i.e. Astronaut John Glenn's assistance by

them in The Right Stuff movie.

> The Dogon actually speak of two companions of Sirius:

>

>

> >Strangely, ancient records explicitly list Sirius as one of six "red

> >stars." The other five are still seen as red but from the time

> >of Arab astronomers to the present day Sirius has been blue-white.

>

> >

> >The mystery of the ancient "red" Sirius also remains baffling. Some

> >astronomers speculate that the white dwarf Sirius B might have been a

> >flaming red giant only 2000 years ago although current astrophysical

> >theories decree that any such transformation in less than 100,000 years is

> >impossible. Other ancient astronomical records make no mention of Sirius

> >being red.

 

........I have a kids book titled "Star Grazers" that tells of a young shedard

whose flockcomes under threat by a great red star named Lupus (the wolf) while

his sheep are

grazing on the stars. The Dogstar, Sirus, comes to their aid.

> >In 1977 two radio astronomers were interested enough in the Sirius mystery

> >to direct their telescopes at the star system in hopes of picking up any

> >artificial radio signals. None were detected, -snip-

>

 

.........Ah! the limits of Science to modern Man:)

> >Whatever their place in the search for extraterrestrial contact, the Dogon

> >myths are certainly odd. The Stone Age storytellers speak by their

> >campfires of other people on other planets and of other mysteries. Our

> >mysteries may be different but our questions are the same and we are no

> >wiser.

 

.........Well put, Dharma

> >If interested, I would write more on Mackie's visit to Kansas City.

>

> I'd be interested!

>

> Love,

> Dharma

>

 

.........Gladly, Dharma. However the rest of the story of Mackie is less about

astronomy, and more about his mystical walk about. Will add more later.

 

Like: his reoccuring nightmares of a terrible 'snake' river he saw on the New

Zealand News. It was the flooding of the Missouri river in 1991-1992. While

Mackie was in KC in 1995, Genesha and I took him to one of our favorite places,

the confluence of the Kaw and the Missouri rivers. The Kaw is on the 40th

parralell, flows eastward, the Missouri divides Kansas and Missouri, flowing

south. Around here we think of this area as the

terminal morane (sp?), where the last ice age's glaciers stopped at their

southern most point. Interesting geophysical energy here.

 

Light up ALL! It may very well be odd, to Be here Now,

 

in Love,

Eric

[Guest guest]

Dharma:

 

Superbly put together thank you. My understanding is that the Dogon's had

caves which showed these relationships between Sirius A and B and that they

are very ancient drawings. I will write to Ed, who's a professor in Arizona,

and ask him if he remembers where he sourced this info.

 

Thank you for illuminating information.

 

L*L*L

Rainbo

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 08/31/1999 6:55:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

fisher1 writes:

 

<<

I really doubt this. Such explicit ancient drawings would be definite

proof. James Oberg is a science writer with an excellent reputation... he

is very thorough, and I think if there were such evidence, he would have

known about it.

 

Love,

Dharma

>>

Hiya Dharma!

 

Ed says he will upload the photographs and send this week. He's a Ph.D.

chemist, I don't think he's easily led astray, the caves were apparently

shown only to a few. But let's see, and be open-minded and take a look. I

wonder if he's done carbon datings. Will ask.

 

Love and Light,

Rainbo

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 08/31/1999 7:55:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

carrea writes:

 

<< I often wondered in my young physics mind, how i would notice a change

overnight in the basics laws of physics. Let's say a change in the value

of Pi. Everything would change with it, so i would not be able to detect

it's change or effect. Unless i am in a world where Pi does not exist

but can look to one where it's existence is projected, represented and

interpreted.

 

A comet passing,

 

Antoine

>>

Or, the experience of it itself ... well said, I wondered sometimes in

studies and said to a professor of chemistry that it could all be a myth of

our own invention, he laughed and said "yes, that is quite possible."

 

A black hole still

 

Annette

[Guest guest]

Hi Annette,

>Superbly put together thank you. My understanding is that the Dogon's had

>caves which showed these relationships between Sirius A and B and that they

>are very ancient drawings.

 

I really doubt this. Such explicit ancient drawings would be definite

proof. James Oberg is a science writer with an excellent reputation... he

is very thorough, and I think if there were such evidence, he would have

known about it.

 

Love,

Dharma

[Guest guest]

Hi Annette,

> I really doubt this. Such explicit ancient drawings would be definite

> proof. James Oberg is a science writer with an excellent reputation... he

> is very thorough, and I think if there were such evidence, he would have

> known about it.

>

>Ed says he will upload the photographs and send this week. He's a Ph.D.

>chemist, I don't think he's easily led astray, the caves were apparently

>shown only to a few. But let's see, and be open-minded and take a look. I

>wonder if he's done carbon datings. Will ask.

 

The question would be whether the drawings clearly represent Sirius... or

whether they are simply something that could later be interpreted as

representing Sirius.

 

Love,

Dharma

[Guest guest]

> The question would be whether the drawings clearly represent Sirius... or

> whether they are simply something that could later be interpreted as

> representing Sirius.

>

> Love,

> Dharma

 

I often wondered in my young physics mind, how i would notice a change

overnight in the basics laws of physics. Let's say a change in the value

of Pi. Everything would change with it, so i would not be able to detect

it's change or effect. Unless i am in a world where Pi does not exist

but can look to one where it's existence is projected, represented and

interpreted.

 

A comet passing,

 

Antoine

[Guest guest]

Hi Antoine!

>> The question would be whether the drawings clearly represent Sirius... or

>> whether they are simply something that could later be interpreted as

>> representing Sirius.

>I often wondered in my young physics mind, how i would notice a change

>overnight in the basics laws of physics. Let's say a change in the value

>of Pi. Everything would change with it, so i would not be able to detect

>it's change or effect. Unless i am in a world where Pi does not exist

>but can look to one where it's existence is projected, represented and

>interpreted.

 

Ah, the stuff of science fiction! I ask myself, what would the world

look like if the value of Pi were different... but unfortunately I'm not

enough of a physicist or mathematician to even begin to imagine that. )

 

Love,

Dharma

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/31/99 5:30:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time, fisher1

writes:

 

<< I often wondered in my young physics mind, how i would notice a change

>overnight in the basics laws of physics. Let's say a change in the value

>of Pi. Everything would change with it, so i would not be able to detect

>it's change or effect. Unless i am in a world where Pi does not exist

>but can look to one where it's existence is projected, represented and

>interpreted.

 

Ah, the stuff of science fiction! I ask myself, what would the world

look like if the value of Pi were different... but unfortunately I'm not

enough of a physicist or mathematician to even begin to imagine that. )

 

Love,

Dharma

>>

 

The common Sci-fi theme has been to suggest time travel into the past with a

time machine and to attempt to change some element of history, go back to the

original time ("present") and try to see if anything you did had changed the

world. How could anyone know? A wonderful, hilarious and charming teaching

story on this concept is by R.A. Lafferty, one of my favorite Southern

Gentlemen. The story is called, something like "Rump of Skunk" or something

long and complicated that I cannot recall, nor find in my voluminous library

at the moment. I will search and find it eventually and pass the title on.

In any case, the gallant researchers in his tale undergo bizarre

transformations every time they and their computer machine make attempts to

alter the past, but they are oblivious, as far as they are concerned things

are as they have always been. In one wildly imaginative example, the

multibillion dollar computer/time machine is turned into a Kachina Mask

talking head and the researchers reduced to tribal people eating skunk. Very

funny.

 

Blessings,

Love,

Zenbob