Guest guest Posted September 9, 1999 Report Share Posted September 9, 1999 > Frankji: > needless to say, this is a vital issue, and one that can > avail tremendous insight and growth in the application > of one's sadhana. > you have intimated the fact that desire is integral to > the whole of Being Itself, manifesting quite clearly in > the Ordinary and Mundane. how else could it be? > yes, we must embrace the whole of What Is, lest advaita > itself be a sleight of mind deception! > examining therefore the nature and essence of Desire, > this is what i have learned (and i should emphasize > that this, as well as any such philosophic conception, > is merely a strategic methodology devised for the > purpose of dissolving the ego): > Desire is mulaprakrit. > Desire is the root of prakrit, shakthi, leela, and maya. > Desire is the root of all of Life. > Desire is the Creator, Sustainer, and Destroyer of > Time, Space, and Causation. > Desire is the spark of Creation emanating brahman. > Desire is indeed the will of brahman. Dan: If I may, I am connecting this thought with the views of the jnani Sigmundji. He described the basis of human perceptual reality as "the unconscious" which he said is governed by desire, does not differentiate fantasy from reality, does not separate wish from result, exists as timeless, and is unable to conceptualize its own nonexistence or death. There is a striking parallel between Freud's depiction of the unconscious and Frank's statements about brahman and desire. Following each, one finds that at the basis of experiential reality is desire. Without desire there is no experiential reality. One finds evidence for this in dreams, fantasies, and careful observation of the nature of thought, feeling, perception and experience. > although nirguna brahman is devoid of all attributes > including desire, Desire yet emanates therefrom. > how it does is unanswerable. The root of desire is that which is void of conditions. The transformation of this "void" into desire is "unanswerable" -- therefore such transformation can be considered inherent in the nature of the void, not "caused" or "motivated" in any usual sense. The nature of That which is void of conditions is the infinite potential of all possible conditions. > the very act of sustaining one's life in a body-- > regardless how basic its expression, including sannyas-- > is itself an act of Desire. The appearance of a body is itself an act of desire. > therefore we must come to terms with what it is and > how we use it. the common problem of course is potential > abuse and focus. each person is taken by a set of its > dynamics and the tendency is to brood and obsess and > thus become victimized [and thereby specifically become > trapped and limited]. so the sadhana is to neutralize > the focus through various methods. > > in this regard it's worthwhile observing the jnani. > it is said that the jnani neither posseses sanchita or > generates agami karma; however, prarabdhakarma must yet > unfold. Bhagavan Sri Ramana uses the metaphor of a fan > that is switched off: with no electric to power it, > continues to spin from past momentum. and this is the > product of Desire, endemic to the body-mind complex. > although Desire causes behaviors, there is no-one there > to absorb them. Bhagavan goes on to say that in fact > pleasure can yet be had through them, yet the experiencer > is sunk in the bliss of Self, simply because...yes, that's > right!...there is no experiencer! hahaha! The experiencer is a constructed center, a maintained illusion of continuity situated in the conscious mind. When awareness flows through the unconscious into the conscious and back, instantaneously, there is no center. That is, when the Unconditioned flows into conditionality and instantly back to itself, there is no experiencer. The attempt of the conscious mind to control the unconscious is our usual situation, which is the situation that Freud took as reality. This attempt to control desire is itself an unconscious desire to "have existence," a desire that remains unconscious because "real existence" is simply assumed as a "given." Through the device of this assumption, the conscious mind attempts to maintain a sense of itself as continuing ego. This continuity is called into question when the assumption of "real existence" is questioned deeply. Particularly important is the moment the conscious mind recognizes that its attempt to control desire is itself desire, that its supposed separate existence emerges from and depends on That from which it is trying to assert independence. When the conscious mind is able to function while recognizing its total nonseparation with the unconscious mind, a new situation arises. This new situation might be termed "simple awareness" or "awareness as all-pervading." It is the end of the "reality principle" that governs the usual (split) conscious orientation toward time, space, matter and death. > herein lies the devastating power of the paradox as seen > through the limited window of the relative mind. it is > hopeless and futile to even *attempt* to render reasonable > the realization of the jnani! D: The realization of the jnani emerges here, as I see it, as nonresistance to desire. Resistance to desire, attempting to control desire, is seen as contraction of awareness and as contradiction. Realization then allows the Unconditioned to express as desire without opposition, allowing one to experience conditionality as the Unconditioned. In psychological terms, the conscious mind functions and makes its rational distinctions while arising from inherently groundless Nature that is distinctionless, unbounded, and beyond the realm of reasonableness. It functions without being "consumed" and without "regressing" and yet with total nonseparation. There is then the sensation that one is viewing one's own mind, that there is no separation between wish and fulfillment, that all is perfect as is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 1999 Report Share Posted September 10, 1999 Danji, thanks for your response to Frankji and pointing out that Sigmundji's model of consciousness is parallel to what Frankji has offered. I will pass this on to the Advaitin list so that others have a chance to benefit from your analysis and insights. Thanks again for taking the time to review and write. Harsha Dan Berkow, PhD [berkowd] Thursday, September 09, 1999 12:01 PM Re: Frank/desire "Dan Berkow, PhD" <berkowd > Frankji: > needless to say, this is a vital issue, and one that can > avail tremendous insight and growth in the application > of one's sadhana. > you have intimated the fact that desire is integral to > the whole of Being Itself, manifesting quite clearly in > the Ordinary and Mundane. how else could it be? > yes, we must embrace the whole of What Is, lest advaita > itself be a sleight of mind deception! > examining therefore the nature and essence of Desire, > this is what i have learned (and i should emphasize > that this, as well as any such philosophic conception, > is merely a strategic methodology devised for the > purpose of dissolving the ego): > Desire is mulaprakrit. > Desire is the root of prakrit, shakthi, leela, and maya. > Desire is the root of all of Life. > Desire is the Creator, Sustainer, and Destroyer of > Time, Space, and Causation. > Desire is the spark of Creation emanating brahman. > Desire is indeed the will of brahman. Dan: If I may, I am connecting this thought with the views of the jnani Sigmundji. He described the basis of human perceptual reality as "the unconscious" which he said is governed by desire, does not differentiate fantasy from reality, does not separate wish from result, exists as timeless, and is unable to conceptualize its own nonexistence or death. There is a striking parallel between Freud's depiction of the unconscious and Frank's statements about brahman and desire. Following each, one finds that at the basis of experiential reality is desire. Without desire there is no experiential reality. One finds evidence for this in dreams, fantasies, and careful observation of the nature of thought, feeling, perception and experience. > although nirguna brahman is devoid of all attributes > including desire, Desire yet emanates therefrom. > how it does is unanswerable. The root of desire is that which is void of conditions. The transformation of this "void" into desire is "unanswerable" -- therefore such transformation can be considered inherent in the nature of the void, not "caused" or "motivated" in any usual sense. The nature of That which is void of conditions is the infinite potential of all possible conditions. > the very act of sustaining one's life in a body-- > regardless how basic its expression, including sannyas-- > is itself an act of Desire. The appearance of a body is itself an act of desire. > therefore we must come to terms with what it is and > how we use it. the common problem of course is potential > abuse and focus. each person is taken by a set of its > dynamics and the tendency is to brood and obsess and > thus become victimized [and thereby specifically become > trapped and limited]. so the sadhana is to neutralize > the focus through various methods. > > in this regard it's worthwhile observing the jnani. > it is said that the jnani neither posseses sanchita or > generates agami karma; however, prarabdhakarma must yet > unfold. Bhagavan Sri Ramana uses the metaphor of a fan > that is switched off: with no electric to power it, > continues to spin from past momentum. and this is the > product of Desire, endemic to the body-mind complex. > although Desire causes behaviors, there is no-one there > to absorb them. Bhagavan goes on to say that in fact > pleasure can yet be had through them, yet the experiencer > is sunk in the bliss of Self, simply because...yes, that's > right!...there is no experiencer! hahaha! The experiencer is a constructed center, a maintained illusion of continuity situated in the conscious mind. When awareness flows through the unconscious into the conscious and back, instantaneously, there is no center. That is, when the Unconditioned flows into conditionality and instantly back to itself, there is no experiencer. The attempt of the conscious mind to control the unconscious is our usual situation, which is the situation that Freud took as reality. This attempt to control desire is itself an unconscious desire to "have existence," a desire that remains unconscious because "real existence" is simply assumed as a "given." Through the device of this assumption, the conscious mind attempts to maintain a sense of itself as continuing ego. This continuity is called into question when the assumption of "real existence" is questioned deeply. Particularly important is the moment the conscious mind recognizes that its attempt to control desire is itself desire, that its supposed separate existence emerges from and depends on That from which it is trying to assert independence. When the conscious mind is able to function while recognizing its total nonseparation with the unconscious mind, a new situation arises. This new situation might be termed "simple awareness" or "awareness as all-pervading." It is the end of the "reality principle" that governs the usual (split) conscious orientation toward time, space, matter and death. > herein lies the devastating power of the paradox as seen > through the limited window of the relative mind. it is > hopeless and futile to even *attempt* to render reasonable > the realization of the jnani! D: The realization of the jnani emerges here, as I see it, as nonresistance to desire. Resistance to desire, attempting to control desire, is seen as contraction of awareness and as contradiction. Realization then allows the Unconditioned to express as desire without opposition, allowing one to experience conditionality as the Unconditioned. In psychological terms, the conscious mind functions and makes its rational distinctions while arising from inherently groundless Nature that is distinctionless, unbounded, and beyond the realm of reasonableness. It functions without being "consumed" and without "regressing" and yet with total nonseparation. There is then the sensation that one is viewing one's own mind, that there is no separation between wish and fulfillment, that all is perfect as is. ------ All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. The Radical Truth is Radiance of Awareness. It is Total Independence and Ever Present. The Truth needs no psychological or spiritual crutches. It needs no philosophy, no religion, no explanation, no teaching, and no teacher, and yet It is always their support. A true devotee relishes in the Truth. The Truth of Self-Knowledge which is Pure Intelligence. Welcome all to a. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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