Guest guest Posted September 10, 1999 Report Share Posted September 10, 1999 Dear All, >From a friend in France to another friend in Denmark which was shared with me, the Dutch girl in the middle :-) * ... the closest we get to 'detachment' in Tibetan Buddhism are the words ma-chags-pa (MACHAGPA) and btang-snyoms (TANGNYOM) which mean (in order) 'non-attachment' and 'equanimity' and translate the Sanskrit 'alobha' - 'detachment, non-possessiveness', and 'upeksha' - 'an unbiased attitude toward all sentient (and insentient) beings, utterly free of discrimination as regards friend, enemy, or someone/-thing towards which one's attitude is neutral'... Attachment - particularly to the idea of an abiding self in either self or others, be these people or things, is said by the wise to be the root of all suffering, both for oneself and for the being or thing to which one is attached (it tends to be contagious)... Nor is attachment necessarily 'liking' or 'loving' or 'wanting' something... One may be just as attached - and even more so! - to one's wanting something to go away, disappear, die, end...Real non-attachment is even-mindedness towards everything that arises, be it (in one's own opinion) good, bad, or indifferent... Bear in mind that one's own enemy may well be the closest friend of another, and one's own beloved someone else's sworn foe, that what one wants may just at someone else is trying to get rid of, and what one hates exactly what they, or someone else, thinks they need... 'Alobha' is an interesting word. 'Lobha' is the root of our word 'love' and 'a-' is generally privative. 'Not loving' I don't think this is meant in a negative sense, as in NOT loving, but is simply privative... one is not swept away by one's love... Doesn't mean to say you can't love, or shouldn't love - Quite the contrary. You "should" share your love equally and all the time with all that exists... Also doesn't mean you can't have particular beloved friends and possessions... Just that you should not expect them to be what they cannot be, and allow them to be what they are... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 1999 Report Share Posted September 10, 1999 In a message dated 9/10/99 5:57:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, RainboLily writes: > Attachment - particularly to the idea of an abiding self in either self or > others, be these people or things, is said by the wise to be the root of > all suffering, both for oneself and for the being or thing to which one is > attached (it tends to be contagious)... Nor is attachment necessarily > 'liking' or 'loving' or 'wanting' something... One may be just as attached > - and even more so! - to one's wanting something to go away, disappear, > die, end...Real non-attachment is even-mindedness towards everything that > arises, be it (in one's own opinion) good, bad, or indifferent... Personally, I don't think this last statement is truly possible without total surrender, although I do agree with all the rest. There will always be an attachment to non-duality and even-mindedness until it is reached. I think it is much easier (for me) to remain non-attached to those outside of myself... but when it came to my own stuff, yechhh. There is -- either/or, this or that, one way or another -- one is better and helps you to reach a balance and even-mindedness within your own self.... but with conflicting thoughts constantly interrupting, it makes an impossible challenge without meditation, which I no longer do. After years of contemplating and observing my own thoughts that arise as neither good, bad, or indifferent, (to the best of my ability!), I came to the conclusion that this would not bring about even-mindedness within myself, because of my own attachments to being one with myself, no matter how hard I tried. Letting go (giving up) of the attachments was impossible. Choosing one thought system over the other was a waste of time. Acceptance of myself -- who I am in that moment in time -- was impossible. Conflict remained no matter what I tried. It was only when I began to accept my flaws AND surrender my own powerlessness of my dual thought system and limited thinking, is when I began to see the light at the end of the tunnel. What I find left is acceptance of the *better* way -- a thought system that was there all the time, but seemed temporary and illogical because of my conflicting thoughts barring the way. The choice was finally clear. (Thank God!) Glad you are here RainboLily -- I've been enjoying your posts. Love, xxxtg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 1999 Report Share Posted September 11, 1999 Hi Teegee, >snip< >balance and even-mindedness within your own self.... but with conflicting >thoughts constantly interrupting, it makes an impossible challenge without >meditation, which I no longer do. > >After years of contemplating and observing my own thoughts that arise as >neither good, bad, or indifferent, (to the best of my ability!), I came to >the conclusion that this would not bring about even-mindedness within myself, Well, that's one kind of meditation... have you considered trying another kind? >snip< >What I find left is acceptance of the *better* way -- a thought system that >was there all the time, but seemed temporary and illogical because of my >conflicting thoughts barring the way. The choice was finally clear. >(Thank God!) I'd be interested in hearing about what it is, if you want to talk about it. Love, Dharma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 1999 Report Share Posted September 11, 1999 In a message dated 09/11/1999 2:39:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time, fisher1 writes: <What I find left is acceptance of the *better* way -- a thought system that >was there all the time, but seemed temporary and illogical because of my >conflicting thoughts barring the way. The choice was finally clear. >(Thank God!) I'd be interested in hearing about what it is, if you want to talk about it. Love, Dharma >> Dear Dharma, Was a quote from Mike in Paris to Mette in Copenhagen from some Tibetan books he is translating to English. As he sends more, I will be delighted to share with you and the list. Love, Annette Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 1999 Report Share Posted September 11, 1999 In a message dated 09/11/1999 1:44:07 AM Eastern Daylight Time, LeTeegee writes: << It was only when I began to accept my flaws AND surrender my own powerlessness of my dual thought system and limited thinking, is when I began to see the light at the end of the tunnel. What I find left is acceptance of the *better* way -- a thought system that was there all the time, but seemed temporary and illogical because of my conflicting thoughts barring the way. The choice was finally clear. (Thank God!) Glad you are here RainboLily -- I've been enjoying your posts. Love, xxxtg >> Find this beautiful, thank you for sharing! xxxoooxxx *g* Love, rainbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 1999 Report Share Posted September 11, 1999 In a message dated 9/11/99 2:39:48 AM Eastern Daylight Time, fisher1 writes: tg> >After years of contemplating and observing my own thoughts that arise as > >neither good, bad, or indifferent, (to the best of my ability!), I came to > >the conclusion that this would not bring about even-mindedness within > myself, > dharma:> Well, that's one kind of meditation... have you considered trying another > kind? I don't think so... can you elaborate?? > >snip< tg> >What I find left is acceptance of the *better* way -- a thought system that > >was there all the time, but seemed temporary and illogical because of my > >conflicting thoughts barring the way. The choice was finally clear. > >(Thank God!) > dharma:> I'd be interested in hearing about what it is, if you want to talk about it. > My best thinking got me to where I am. That's when I knew I needed a better way. LOL Pleading for understanding, for knowledge got me noWhere. Attachment to the body's desires. Previously, I saw it as an attachment to the action that needed to be done, or was not being done. This brought lack of energy. With this lack of energy, I saw that as an attachment again to what needed to be done, or was not being done. LOL Attachments and eliminating them have nothing to do with doing, or not doing. Eliminating attachments have to do with looking at and understanding what it is that is keeping us from *being* who we are. I cannot know without understanding. I cannot understand without knowing. And who are we? One, not two. I knew this intellectually and experientially but these experiences did not assure my mind of oneness. It only made me want what I didn't know was possible before. Many wasted precious years of me wanting or not wanting 'to do' in order for me to find myself. I think that's where the word do-do came from. :-) Love, xxxtg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 1999 Report Share Posted September 11, 1999 Hi Annette, >> >What I find left is acceptance of the *better* way -- a thought system >>that >> >was there all the time, but seemed temporary and illogical because of my >> >conflicting thoughts barring the way. The choice was finally clear. >> >(Thank God!) >> I'd be interested in hearing about what it is, if you want to talk about >>it. >> >Was a quote from Mike in Paris to Mette in Copenhagen from some Tibetan books >he is translating to English. As he sends more, I will be delighted to share >with you and the list. Thank you, but I thought those lines above were written by Teegee. I was saying I'd like to hear about the "better way" that she found. Love, Dharma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 1999 Report Share Posted September 11, 1999 In a message dated 9/11/99 7:46:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time, fisher1 writes: tg> >Many wasted precious years of me wanting or not wanting 'to do' > >in order for me to find myself. > >I think that's where the word do-do came from. :-) dharma:> ))) And it sounds like you did find yourself. Still searching for more of me, more of oneness within myself. >How did that happen? By really looking at what was stopping me from being who I am. By accepting my powerlessness to change, and surrendering my attachment and the whole process. >Did getting rid of attachments help? Seeking, finding, and finally looking at and eliminating the major conflict/attachment in my life has been amazing! I stopped doing, or not doing, as it wasn't working in my life. Not only has it reversed my thought system in this area (which I thought was impossible!) but it has given me hope that other lesser conflicts within me can eventually be reversed too. I don't know though! I'm a tough cookie. :-) >Or maybe you just gave up all the effort > and there you In a sense, yes. It did finally come to surrender - Surrendering what it was that was stopping me from being who I am. I spent years surrendering -- to no avail -- my actions and inactions, my doing or not doing. What I thought were attachments, weren't. Sometimes I feel like such an idiot as I'm sure this is written somewhere -- probably everywhere -- and I just couldn't see it. I am finding this whole process fasinating though and I love it! Much Love, xxxtg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 1999 Report Share Posted September 11, 1999 Hi Teegee, >tg> >What I find left is acceptance of the *better* way -- a thought system >that >> >was there all the time, but seemed temporary and illogical because of my >> >conflicting thoughts barring the way. The choice was finally clear. >> >(Thank God!) >> >dharma:> I'd be interested in hearing about what it is, if you want to talk >about it. >> > >My best thinking got me to where I am. >That's when I knew I needed a better way. LOL >Pleading for understanding, for knowledge >got me noWhere. > >Attachment to the body's desires. > >Previously, I saw it as an attachment to the action >that needed to be done, or was not being done. >This brought lack of energy. > >With this lack of energy, >I saw that as an attachment again >to what needed to be done, or was not being done. >LOL > >Attachments and eliminating them have nothing to do with doing, or not doing. > >Eliminating attachments have to do with looking at and understanding what it >is that >is keeping us from *being* who we are. Yes, that's a wonderful way to put it! >I cannot know without understanding. >I cannot understand without knowing. Well, I'm that way... don't know if everyone is, but I am. >And who are we? One, not two. >I knew this intellectually and experientially >but these experiences did not assure my mind of oneness. >It only made me want what I didn't know was possible before. > >Many wasted precious years of me wanting or not wanting 'to do' >in order for me to find myself. >I think that's where the word do-do came from. :-) ))) And it sounds like you did find yourself. How did that happen? Did getting rid of attachments help? Or maybe you just gave up all the effort and there you were? Love, Dharma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 1999 Report Share Posted September 12, 1999 Hi Teegee, >tg> >Many wasted precious years of me wanting or not wanting 'to do' >> >in order for me to find myself. >> >I think that's where the word do-do came from. :-) > >dharma:> ))) And it sounds like you did find yourself. > >Still searching for more of me, more of oneness within myself. It'll come. Sounds like you're over the hard part. >>How did that happen? > >By really looking at what was stopping me >from being who I am. >By accepting my powerlessness to change, >and surrendering my attachment and the whole process. > >>Did getting rid of attachments help? > >Seeking, finding, and finally looking at and eliminating the major >conflict/attachment in my life has been amazing! >I stopped doing, or not doing, as it wasn't working in my life. >Not only has it reversed my thought system in this area >(which I thought was impossible!) >but it has given me hope that other lesser conflicts within me can >eventually be reversed too. >I don't know though! >I'm a tough cookie. :-) It's wonderful that you could do that... many of us find it hard to "eliminate the major conflict/attachment" because we're so attached to having it... seems like if we didn't do that, what would there be to do?? )) > >Or maybe you just gave up all the effort >> and there you > >In a sense, yes. >It did finally come to surrender - >Surrendering what it was that was stopping me >from being who I am. >I spent years surrendering -- to no avail -- >my actions and inactions, my doing or not doing. >What I thought were attachments, weren't. > >Sometimes I feel like such an idiot as I'm sure this is written somewhere -- >probably everywhere -- and I just couldn't see it. It always helps to hear it from a personal point of view... sometimes that's clearer than the books. >I am finding this whole process fasinating though and I love it! It's a great adventure, isn't it? )) Love, Dharma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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