Meditation.Intro

[Guest guest]

Hi Dharma...

 

Thanks for the meditation intro.

Maybe it will help me to do various things

(reach all these different planes of existance),

but I have no desire to do this -- to reach these different planes -- via

meditation.

I want to live life in this plane since I gotta be here anyway.

 

I have found that going to these different consciousness via meditation

only kept me from living, truly living.

This is only my truth at this time, and it may not be right for others on

this path.

 

Reaching God and the nirvanic/heavenly state again was the only thing

important to me and I forgot about myself and everyone else along the way.

I found I can't walk this path alone.

 

It was when I stopped seriously meditating to reach other consciousness

states that I began to find God within myself and others.... that He wasn't

something to reach only within my own self, but to find within each one of

us. My way with others is through communication. My way with myself is

the same. This is my form of meditation. (or an excuse for meditation!)

LOL

 

At times, I need to quieten myself for a few moments or minutes to reconnect.

Other times, it may take weeks or months of quiet (and sometimes not so

quiet!) contemplation to feel the connection. With others, if they are

willing, I will communicate with them till hell (literally) breaks loose, and

oneness, instead of separation, is seen between us. It isn't nirvana that

is finally reached, but it is peace with what is, whether they are willing to

communicate or not.

 

Maybe meditation would break through all of this quicker, but when you've

lost your mind more than once to Kundalini, you finally begin to seek a

better way.

 

This is not to say I do not recommend meditation -- in fact, I do to many.

It has led me to where I am, which is a much better place than where I was!

It has helped me to connect to myself more quickly, rather than feel the

separation within. I am going to keep your intro to pass on to others, if

you don't mind!

 

I do have a question on this:

>But I find that people come with various goals in mind. One person may

come wanting only to learn physical relaxation, and then he quits. Another

comes because she can't control her emotions - she learns how to handle

them and then quits. So I've decided that I have to let each person decide

what he's ready to learn.

 

Would it be possible for me to use meditation as another goal -- that maybe

the goal (?) I had before has found it's usefulness? Or would it send me

into never never land again? Maybe we won't know unless we try! What kind

of goal would you suggest?

 

Dharma, thanks again. You are one heckuva teacher.

 

Much Love,

xxxtg

[Guest guest]

INTRODUCTION TO MEDITATION

 

Meditation is a technique and a process, not a religion. You don't have to

belong to any particular religion to meditate. I've had Christians, Jews,

atheists, and agnostics in my classes - almost had a Buddhist once! We

just have a talk at the first class about the words we use. One person may

say "God," another "universal mind," another "creative forces," and

another

"the Force." It doesn't matter, as long as we understand each other.

 

Learning meditation, you are not asked to accept anyone else's BELIEFS.

Belief is not what it's about. It's about learning a technique to explore

the world - the WHOLE WORLD - and find out what's really there. And

interact with it as you choose.

 

What do I mean by the WHOLE WORLD? The books I use the most say that there

are seven planes in our solar system. For "planes," you can say "rates of

vibration,states of being," or "states of consciousness."

 

(Some people maintain there are eight - it doesn't matter. We separate

things into parts in order to talk about the parts. If we draw lines

across an image of our world to make seven parts, does that mean the world

really has those divisions? Not necessarily, but it means that we can talk

about the parts of the world better.)

 

The first three planes, counting from the bottom up

 

(another metaphor for the sake of talking about something - we could also

say "from the surface to the depths" or "from the outside to the inmost)

 

The first three planes, counting from the bottom up, are:

I. The physical plane,

II. The emotional or astral plane, and

III. The mental or manasic plane.

 

These three planes are the planes of personality. You, as a personality,

are body, emotions, and intellect. Maybe you think that's all you are, but

it just ain't so. You also exist on those other planes, whether you know

it or not! And through the process of meditation you can come to know

those other planes. And eventually live on those planes, just as much as

you now live physically, emotionally, and intellectually.

 

Actually, if you've ever concentrated on thinking about something (maybe

while reading) so thoroughly that you forgot everything else and someone

had to call your name several times to get you to hear them, then you know

what reflective meditation is. So the first thing we do in learning

meditation will be very familiar to you.

 

Beyond that are these planes:

IV. Intuitive (Buddhic) Plane

V. Spiritual (Atmic) Plane

VI. Monadic Plane, and

VII. Divine Plane

 

How do we get there? The Bhagavad-Gita ("the gospel of the Hindus") says:

 

"The turtle can draw in his legs;

the seer can draw in his senses."

 

That's what we learn to do. First, we learn to relax the body so

completely that we can forget it. Then we relax the emotional body so

completely that we rise above the level of emotions. Then we may just think

- do reflective meditation. But then we relax the intellectual body so

completely that we rise above that.

 

At first it's only for a moment, then for a short while. But then the real

fun begins!

 

Imagine if you had a dream, but in this dream you are fully conscious!

There's nothing else there - nothing to see, no people to speak to. Just

you alone, fully awake but away from the every-day waking world of the

senses. With a little effort, you can make anything or anyone appear and

make anything happen. But if you play around doing that, you'll really

just be on the emotional or astral level.

 

So then it occurs to you that this is the ideal state in which to think out

some problem, or pray, or see if you can actually leave the body!

 

And when you can get there, not just once briefly but over and over again,

then you've done everything right and you're ready to REALLY get into

knowing the world. You've become the seer who can withdraw his senses.

 

What is there to see and do? More than any one person could see and do in

one lifetime!

 

There is more than one way to teach this, and more than one way to decide

what you are going after, what you are working for. Some teachers say that

the ONLY goal is the highest - union with the Godhead, or Nirvana, or the

highest samadhi, or whatever it may be called. And they say you should

ignore anything else you may experience along the way.

 

But I find that people come with various goals in mind. One person may

come wanting only to learn physical relaxation, and then he quits. Another

comes because she can't control her emotions - she learns how to handle

them and then quits. So I've decided that I have to let each person decide

what he's ready to learn.

 

What can you learn and do along the way? Well, we all know what intuition

is - that moment when the answer to something just comes to us - the AHA!

experience. So you become more and more intuitive. Until it's a regular

occurence in your life, and you know how to use it. Eventually, you come

to a point after which you live as an intuitive person and the workings of

the intellect drop below the surface of awareness. Yes, you still have a

mind and it works just fine, but you don't have to spend time being aware

of all its computer doings, you just get the answers.

 

After that there's still the Atmic Plane and the Monadic Plane, and then

finally the seventh plane and Nirvana! And after that you begin to think

about how you can use what you know and what you are to help other people.

 

And it turns out that there's still more to learn, because these are only

the seven planes of our solar system.

 

And to backtrack a little, in the process of your development, you may

develop one or more psychic gifts - telepathy, clairvoyance, etc. And then

for a while you seem to lose them, and then later you find you have the

higher correspondence to them - telepathy or clairaudience operating on a

higher plane! I don't encourage people to work for psychic gifts, and that

isn't what I teach, but they do appear naturally in the course of

development.

 

And all of this is done as part of a group! Soul life is group life. It

may look - on the lower planes - as though a person is alone in his work,

but he never is. He's always working as one aspect of a group.

 

So there you are. It's a technique I teach, and these are the things you

can use it for.

 

Love,

Dharma

[Guest guest]

Hello Tg and Dharma,

 

" Would it be possible for me to use meditation as another goal -- that

maybe the goal (?) I had before has found it's usefulness? Or would it

send me into never never land again? Maybe we won't know unless we

try! What kind of goal would you suggest? "

 

I felt like sharing this;

 

http://www.osho.com/zentarot/eng/zen052.htm

[Guest guest]

Hi Teegee,

>Thanks for the meditation intro.

>Maybe it will help me to do various things

>(reach all these different planes of existance),

>but I have no desire to do this -- to reach these different planes -- via

>meditation.

>I want to live life in this plane since I gotta be here anyway.

 

You're living in three planes right now... physical, emotional, and

mental. With sometimes some intuition from the next plane.

 

So while you're living life here and now, would you like to be able to stop

that constant chatter of the mind once in a while? That's where this

meditation will take you.

 

Last year I was invited to teach Raja Yoga at a pagan/Wiccan gathering. I

found the group had varied backgrounds in meditation, so I just did the

standard 1st class... what you've read. Afterward, one woman came up to

me with tears in her eyes. She said for the first time in her life she had

actually been in silence for a little while, where she couldn't hear that

constant chatter of the mind. She said she'd been trying for years, with

different methods, and never could turn off the noise in her head... and

she was gonna go home and enjoy it some more!

 

What practicing this method will give you is a proficiency... but nobody

says you have to go to other planes if you don't want to! It's like

learning to drive a car and then buying one... you don't have to go

anywhere if you don't want to, but you've got the capability. You're

mobile.

 

>It was when I stopped seriously meditating to reach other consciousness

>states that I began to find God within myself and others.... that He wasn't

>something to reach only within my own self, but to find within each one of

>us. My way with others is through communication. My way with myself is

>the same. This is my form of meditation. (or an excuse for meditation!)

>LOL

 

I agree... it's all about communication. I just think I communicate

better when all that mental static is gone.

>I am going to keep your intro to pass on to others, if

>you don't mind!

 

Sure, please do.

>I do have a question on this:

>

>>But I find that people come with various goals in mind. One person may

>come wanting only to learn physical relaxation, and then he quits. Another

>comes because she can't control her emotions - she learns how to handle

>them and then quits. So I've decided that I have to let each person decide

>what he's ready to learn.

>

> Would it be possible for me to use meditation as another goal -- that maybe

>the goal (?) I had before has found it's usefulness? What kind

>of goal would you suggest?

 

How about achieving five minutes... 10 minutes... 15 minutes... of quiet

with no mental chatter at all?

 

Or you could use it for learning. If there's something you want to learn

more about, just make that the topic... and come up with a symbol for

it... spend the reflective meditation time thinking about it in complete

relaxation... then rise up higher and focus on the symbol and wait... and

see what intuition you get on it.

>Or would it send me

>into never never land again? Maybe we won't know unless we try!

 

Well, it doesn't require active K., and I don't think it will activate

anyone's K... unless maybe they try awfully hard and spend long hours

meditating. But I don't know how it might affect yours. I would say just

start with a short period of time, and then increase it gradually. See how

it goes... you should be able to judge. And of course, if you get into a

period of over-active K.... whatever that is for you... then it's always

a good idea to stop all meditation for a while.

 

Love,

Dharma

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 09/12/1999 12:05:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

dorf01 writes:

 

<<

It was a meditation like this that led me to the conclusion that my life

is not my own, and belongs to my parents, who are all beings.

>>

Yes, when we give ourselves to devotional work for all and other is before

ourself, wonderful :-)))

 

L*L*L

Rainbo

[Guest guest]

ivan: Hi, Dharma and all, ....greetings!

I heard you speaking of meditation so i tryed it out.

Let´s find the inner onlooker...

I am not my body

I am not my senses

I am not my feelings

I am not my thoughts

I am not my intuitions

I am not any of the different planes of existence

 

Because i can see all those, an the inner onlooker should

not be seen...it is the observer...

 

So i can see all....so where is the observer?....none to be found.

 

So i found it!!! LOL

 

Happy to share this "place" with you...

 

===============================================

Diálogos em Português sobre o universo não-dual. Vá até

www. e busque: - Unicidade - Seja bem-vindo.

===============================================

[Guest guest]

It was a meditation like this that led me to the conclusion that my life

is not my own, and belongs to my parents, who are all beings.

 

Not that i always manage to live that completly, but it is a goal.

 

Wisdom waking up with compassion is always a wonderful thing.

 

as the moody blues said before i was born "keep on thinking free'

 

---Jhampa Tsomo

 

On Sun, 12 Sep 1999, ivan wrote:

> ivan: Hi, Dharma and all, ....greetings!

> I heard you speaking of meditation so i tryed it out.

> Let´s find the inner onlooker...

> I am not my body

> I am not my senses

> I am not my feelings

> I am not my thoughts

> I am not my intuitions

> I am not any of the different planes of existence

>

> Because i can see all those, an the inner onlooker should

> not be seen...it is the observer...

>

> So i can see all....so where is the observer?....none to be found.

>

> So i found it!!! LOL

>

> Happy to share this "place" with you...

>

> ===============================================

> Diálogos em Português sobre o universo não-dual. Vá até

> www. e busque: - Unicidade - Seja bem-vindo.

> ===============================================

>

 

| Debora A. Orf | Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons,

| dorf01 | For you are crunchy,

| | And taste good with Ketchup.

 

http://www.win.org/library/staff/webweaver

[Guest guest]

Hi guys! Well I am just sharing something here I wrote on another list which is

discussiing mantras ..

 

I am open to further explorations round this ...

 

~*~

As far as I know ... mantras are imbued with

primordial essence ..

 

What am I trying to say? Hmm .. well .. have you ever heard the teachings that

utter stillness & silence (singularity/Unity) vibrates within ItSelf ~ to

create the whole universe (diversity) ~

 

And that these vibrations are actually sounds ~

 

As you get closer to the Source (singularity awareness) .. then you may start

to hear the primordial sounds of Nature in manifestation ~ doing their stuff!

 

I know that having a mantra suited to one's own nervous system allows one's

mind to dive deep past thought ~ into our Source within (stillness silence) ..

past all sounds ...

 

A mantra is a sound which leads straight into the Gap ~ the mind releases its

attachment to thoughts (as self) because a mantra's effects are soothing &

blissful (because they do lead a tired mind back into it's own Source ~ where

all thoughts come from ~ to recharge there directly ~

 

That's what I heard ~

 

Love

 

Colette

[Guest guest]

Hi Ivan,

>I heard you speaking of meditation so i tryed it out. Let´s find the

>inner onlooker... I am not my body I am not my senses I am not my feelings

>I am not my thoughts I am not my intuitions I am not any of the different

>planes of existence Because i can see all those, an the inner onlooker

>should not be seen...it is the observer... So i can see all....so where

>is the observer?....none to be found. So i found it!!! LOL Happy to

>share this "place" with you...

 

Well, what you're describing is a different method... but since you're

happy with it, that's fine.

 

For me, there's a value in being aware as that conscious focus... You're

right, it isn't any of the different planes... it's simply a moving focus

of consciousness... in the most inclusive sense, not just consciousness as

in when we're awake and conscious. And when my students are aware in that

way, then I can explain something by just saying to go to a certain place

(in one sense or another), and they know how to do it.

 

Love,

Dharma

[Guest guest]

Hi Col,

 

There were a couple of wonderful posts on this list a while back from

Marcus on matrka (the power of sound inherent in the letters of the

alphabet) and on shabda, the inner sound. I could send them to you

privately, but it's been a while... maybe Marcus would like to repost

them??

 

Love,

Dharma

 

Well I am just sharing something here I wrote on another list which is

discussiing mantras ..

>

>I am open to further explorations round this ...

>

>~*~

>As far as I know ... mantras are imbued with

>primordial essence ..

>

>What am I trying to say? Hmm .. well .. have you ever heard the teachings that

>utter stillness & silence (singularity/Unity) vibrates within ItSelf ~ to

>create the whole universe (diversity) ~

>

>And that these vibrations are actually sounds ~

>

>As you get closer to the Source (singularity awareness) .. then you may start

>to hear the primordial sounds of Nature in manifestation ~ doing their stuff!

>

>I know that having a mantra suited to one's own nervous system allows one's

>mind to dive deep past thought ~ into our Source within (stillness silence) ..

>past all sounds ...

>

>A mantra is a sound which leads straight into the Gap ~ the mind releases its

>attachment to thoughts (as self) because a mantra's effects are soothing &

>blissful (because they do lead a tired mind back into it's own Source ~ where

>all thoughts come from ~ to recharge there directly ~

>

>That's what I heard ~

>

>Love

>

>Colette

>

>

>

>

>

>--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------

>

>ONElist: your connection to online communities.

>

>------

>All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. The Radical Truth is

>Radiance of Awareness. It is Total Independence and Ever Present. The

>Truth needs no psychological or spiritual crutches. It needs no

>philosophy, no religion, no explanation, no teaching, and no teacher, and

>yet It is always their support. A true devotee relishes in the Truth. The

>Truth of Self-Knowledge which is Pure Intelligence. Welcome all to

>a.

[Guest guest]

Hi Col~

 

You wrote:

>A mantra is a sound which leads straight into the Gap ~ the mind releases its

>attachment to thoughts (as self) because a mantra's effects are soothing &

>blissful (because they do lead a tired mind back into it's own Source ~ where

>all thoughts come from ~ to recharge there directly ~

>

 

If I'm having an active mind in meditation with many thoughts arising,

which is just "noise" I'll go into mantra or just humming a single not for long

period which enables me to drift off into deep bliss. However, the humming

or chanting also tends to cause my K. to rise once I stop.

 

Raven

[Guest guest]

Hi Colette,

I agree with you about sound and vibrations as being a doorway into higher

consciousness through that silence. Thanks for sharing. Glroia

 

Colette T wrote:

> Colette T <colette

>

> Hi guys! Well I am just sharing something here I wrote on another list which

is discussiing mantras ..

>

> I am open to further explorations round this ...

>

> ~*~

> As far as I know ... mantras are imbued with

> primordial essence ..

>

> What am I trying to say? Hmm .. well .. have you ever heard the teachings that

> utter stillness & silence (singularity/Unity) vibrates within ItSelf ~ to

> create the whole universe (diversity) ~

>

> And that these vibrations are actually sounds ~

>

> As you get closer to the Source (singularity awareness) .. then you may start

> to hear the primordial sounds of Nature in manifestation ~ doing their stuff!

>

> I know that having a mantra suited to one's own nervous system allows one's

> mind to dive deep past thought ~ into our Source within (stillness silence) ..

> past all sounds ...

>

> A mantra is a sound which leads straight into the Gap ~ the mind releases its

> attachment to thoughts (as self) because a mantra's effects are soothing &

> blissful (because they do lead a tired mind back into it's own Source ~ where

> all thoughts come from ~ to recharge there directly ~

>

> That's what I heard ~

>

> Love

>

> Colette

>

> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------

>

> ONElist: your connection to online communities.

>

> ------

> All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. The Radical Truth is Radiance of

Awareness. It is Total Independence and Ever Present. The Truth needs no

psychological or spiritual crutches. It needs no philosophy, no religion, no

explanation, no teaching, and no teacher, and yet It is always their support. A

true devotee relishes in the Truth. The Truth of Self-Knowledge which is Pure

Intelligence. Welcome all to a.

 

--

Enter The Silence to know God...and...accept life as the teacher.

 

Gloria Joy Greco

e-mail me at: lodpress

visit my homepage & internet retreat at: http://users.intercomm.com/larryn/

[Guest guest]

Hi friends

~*~

Hi Col,

 

* :-) Hi Dharma how are you soul sis?

 

There were a couple of wonderful posts on this list a while back from

Marcus on matrka (the power of sound inherent in the letters of the

alphabet) and on shabda, the inner sound. I could send them to you

privately, but it's been a while... maybe Marcus would like to repost

them??

 

* Hmm hi honey ~ I am just playing here with bits n pieces .. but as far as I

can make out from my Vedic Science Courses .. the Laws of Nature are actually

sounds (which manifest all levels of the Universe) In other words .. sounds

create ~ matter even!

 

This is why Gurus warn to be careful before you speak aloud because what is

uttered can never be taken back ~

 

I know also that Maharishi Mahesh Yogi's groundbreaking addditions to Vedic

Science include ~ now informing ~ that pronouncing correctly the names of each

Vedic branch (40 of them) in sanskrit in a special way ~ actually aligns Gap

awareness (One with Everything) ~

 

After 3 months of practicing this during His Course on Total Knowledge which is

6 months long (during which time we chanted the Vedic names etc for a bit just

once each in a special way ~ twice a week) I became No Thing (Gap)

(temporarily) Anyway I presume .. aspect of Col is included in that Nothing

Everything so here I am still expressing as an individual but I came back

thinned out ~

 

It was very radical & quite a surprise ~ & that is when I started my support

list cause I wanted answers for my lower self to help me translate it to help me

create harmony between my manifest self & my unmanifest Essence ~ and that is

when I started meeting all of you my soul family! I love you!!!

 

Maharishi informs that our bodies are mostly made up of Gaps anyhow ~ spaces

between cells etc and that in each of them .. Total Potentiality Is ...

In aligning our awareness with the gaps .. we can become masters of Natural Law

(whatever that means ~ but I assure you it means in service to the One)

 

Nice chatting' Dharma sweet!

 

~*~

Oh there's that cupcake raven *s* Hellooooooo!

 

Raven McCloud wrote:

> Raven McCloud <RavenMcCloud

>

> Hi Col~

>

> You wrote:

>

> >A mantra is a sound which leads straight into the Gap ~ the mind releases its

> >attachment to thoughts (as self) because a mantra's effects are soothing &

> >blissful (because they do lead a tired mind back into it's own Source ~ where

> >all thoughts come from ~ to recharge there directly ~

> >

>

> If I'm having an active mind in meditation with many thoughts arising,

> which is just "noise" I'll go into mantra or just humming a single not for

long

> period which enables me to drift off into deep bliss. However, the humming

> or chanting also tends to cause my K. to rise once I stop.

>

> Raven

>

 

Hi Rave ~ so this is Col not pretending to be any expert but sharing what I

seem to know bout these bits n pieces ~ so you know I am only experienced with

one type of meditation TM ~ but it does enable one to transcend easily each

time one does it ~

 

I know part of it's effortlessness lies in not fighting against thoughts that

arise ~ I know some people who freak thinking I can't meditate I had lots of

thoughts ~ TM teaches they are a valid part of the process of stress release &

transformation ~ If you are feeling bliss this is cool BUT it is transcendence

which is best ~ to have also!

 

The way to know is, if ~ suddenly a thought arises & you wonder ~ now where was

I?

You forgot where you were (momentarily)

Transcendence may be just a moment (but what a moment ~ completely free of all

boudaries)

It's a forgetting .. no thoughts .. no body binding .. no mind perhaps! Dare I

say?

 

Hmmmmmm .... Osho would be pleased methinks ...

 

I am not K knowledgeable Raven as it wasn't part of my training though I will

say that for me transcending feels like going downnnn .. while I feel an energy

coming up .. rising .. is that K?

I don't know ... I was never informed I was stimulating it ~ oh well!

 

Love,

 

Col

~*~

[Guest guest]

Hi Gloria *s*

 

lodpress wrote:

> lodpress <lodpress

>

> Hi Colette,

> I agree with you about sound and vibrations as being a doorway into higher

consciousness through that silence. Thanks for sharing. Glroia

 

Yesss the sounds get subtler .. leading the mind into transcendence of the

mantra ..

 

:-)

 

Love,

 

Col

[Guest guest]

> > I agree with you about sound and vibrations as being a doorway into

> higher consciousness through that silence. Thanks for sharing. Glroia

>

> Yesss the sounds get subtler .. leading the mind into transcendence of the

> mantra ..

 

Hellllooo Gloria & Col & everyone...

 

It is only when I am in a state of unending desire to see another as myself,

to see oneness instead of separation, with a person I am having great

difficulty with, that total silence and utterly awesome quiet comes upon me

-- in the twinkling of an eye (!) -- the world of illusion is transformed

into a world of light... allowing me to see things as they truly are -- a

state of everything is the same (and open to perceptions), and that nothing

really matters.

 

After originally being in this unbelievable believable state I didn't know

existed, I continued on with mantras, serious disciplined meditation, and

long study periods, thinking this 'was the way' for me to go. LOL

 

Repeating endless mantras was a major part of my discipline, and found them,

the studying, the long meditations, to eventually be a (pain the the butt)

as it was sooo much to me a form of having to *do* something, seemingly

endlessly until the mantra took over itself, to get to the place of

transcendence. In my experiences, it was a form of escapism taking me out of

body, into a world of no space, no time, the beginning, the present, the

end... helping one to see the world of illusion in its entirety. Helpful,

yes... but not *real* experiences.

 

It only proved to me that we think we are a body and we have a need to escape

from it. The true transcendant experiences proved to me that I am not a

body, that the light is within me now, and I need only be willing to see this

world, another person, another thing or situation, it its true form.

 

It is only when I get confused here in this body that I think I need to *do*

anything to get to where I AM. I truly need do nothing, but be willing to

see.

 

Love,

xxxtg

 

ps... Gloria! I just found out I'm going to be a grannie!

From mom to grannie -- now thats transcendent!

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/13/99 2:05:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

inandor writes:

> ivan: Yes. There is no way to get out of the inner self through the inner

> self!! It is the thought projected image that says that i must do this or

that in

> order to get there. But the very thing that is suposed to get there, is

the thing

> that is in the way. The self that is making the efforts, considers itself

an inner

> onlooker, a fixed observer, and at the same time it desires to change!!!!

It is taken to be fixed, constant, and liable to become better in

time.....That is the

> source of conflict.

 

 

Yes!

 

So how is it we get our self outta the way?

That was my great dilemma.

 

When I finally did get my buttinsky-self outta the way,

what I found to be full of effort prior

is now effortless.

Pain has turned to pleasure,

and what gave me conflicting pleasure prior

was turned to pain.

A reversal of my thought system.

 

We are all so fulla shit,

or do-do mentality.

 

Effortless does not give way to doing,

but easily being.

 

I am sooo excited to discover this

on a whole new level to what

many of you already know,

and I only knew intellectually,

so please excuse me

while I strengthen my own thoughts and ideas

on this forum!

 

Thanks for listening and clarifying...

 

Love,

xxxtg

[Guest guest]

Teegee,

Congradulations grannie to be, there is nothing more powerful then this

witnessing because it is real and will take you to places you have never been.

If you can be there when the baby comes in, there is a very powerful energy

because the soul entering into life is charged with an incredible aura plus

everyone in the room is in a very altered state, it is like going back into the

womb and coming out again and remembering the

whole cycle that brought you to the experience. Plus you set up a frequency by

just being there, helping the mother to breathe and detach. After all this is

what giving birth is, isn't it? We must breathe and let go so that at the proper

second the body will do the releasing which comes out in the form of that final

push. This is what the body was designed to do if the mama can get out of her

head and thoughts enough to let it

happen. The illusion is that one has sometbing to do in this, when in fact it is

all coming down quite naturally and all that mom has to do is let it be. Here

being really shows through.

You made quite a discovery here in witnessing yourself trying to do this and

that, there is nothing to do but be and not to control anything...what is left

is flow and accept. So that in this pure letting go the accepting is transformed

into knowing and silence in the movement. This acceptance and ambandoment to the

moment is ever changing however, even in the change there is no reason to lose

that silence because the knowing

also lets you understand that all is illusion. The one ongoing process is

breath, and silence...that which appears to be on the outside as movement, is

the projection which takes form as creation. To the extenet that we are no

longer a part of the projection, we are also no longer a part of the creation

which brings about the dicotomy, being no part of it, we become it.

 

LeTeegee wrote:

> LeTeegee

>

> > > I agree with you about sound and vibrations as being a doorway into

> > higher consciousness through that silence. Thanks for sharing. Glroia

> >

> > Yesss the sounds get subtler .. leading the mind into transcendence of the

> > mantra ..

>

> Hellllooo Gloria & Col & everyone...

>

> It is only when I am in a state of unending desire to see another as myself,

> to see oneness instead of separation, with a person I am having great

> difficulty with, that total silence and utterly awesome quiet comes upon me

> -- in the twinkling of an eye (!) -- the world of illusion is transformed

> into a world of light... allowing me to see things as they truly are -- a

> state of everything is the same (and open to perceptions), and that nothing

> really matters.

>

> After originally being in this unbelievable believable state I didn't know

> existed, I continued on with mantras, serious disciplined meditation, and

> long study periods, thinking this 'was the way' for me to go. LOL

>

> Repeating endless mantras was a major part of my discipline, and found them,

> the studying, the long meditations, to eventually be a (pain the the butt)

> as it was sooo much to me a form of having to *do* something, seemingly

> endlessly until the mantra took over itself, to get to the place of

> transcendence. In my experiences, it was a form of escapism taking me out of

> body, into a world of no space, no time, the beginning, the present, the

> end... helping one to see the world of illusion in its entirety. Helpful,

> yes... but not *real* experiences.

>

> It only proved to me that we think we are a body and we have a need to escape

> from it. The true transcendant experiences proved to me that I am not a

> body, that the light is within me now, and I need only be willing to see this

> world, another person, another thing or situation, it its true form.

>

> It is only when I get confused here in this body that I think I need to *do*

> anything to get to where I AM. I truly need do nothing, but be willing to

> see.

>

> Love,

> xxxtg

>

> ps... Gloria! I just found out I'm going to be a grannie!

> From mom to grannie -- now thats transcendent!

>

> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------

>

> ONElist now has T-SHIRTS!

> For details and to order, go to:

> <a href=" http://clickme./ad/tshirt1 ">Click Here</a>

>

> ------

> All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. The Radical Truth is Radiance of

Awareness. It is Total Independence and Ever Present. The Truth needs no

psychological or spiritual crutches. It needs no philosophy, no religion, no

explanation, no teaching, and no teacher, and yet It is always their support. A

true devotee relishes in the Truth. The Truth of Self-Knowledge which is Pure

Intelligence. Welcome all to a.

 

--

Enter The Silence to know God...and...accept life as the teacher.

 

Gloria Joy Greco

e-mail me at: lodpress

visit my homepage & internet retreat at: http://users.intercomm.com/larryn/

[Guest guest]

Yes, there are two of us huh? This is GG... Anyway in dreams at night we often

see different patterns and formations and also perhaps pieces of awareness

coming together into form. This is that higher consciousness dropping down

through the curtain into our conscious mind as the silence produces the results

that are necessary. Much of the transformation happens in the soul body in both

meditation and sleep so that...that which we

are in the body changes into that knowing of ...I am that. Gloria

 

Colette T wrote:

> Colette T <colette

>

> Hi Gloria *s*

>

> lodpress wrote:

>

> > lodpress <lodpress

> >

> > Hi Colette,

> > I agree with you about sound and vibrations as being a doorway into

higher consciousness through that silence. Thanks for sharing. Glroia

>

> Yesss the sounds get subtler .. leading the mind into transcendence of the

mantra ..

>

> :-)

>

> Love,

>

> Col

>

> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------

>

> ONElist: your connection to online communities.

>

> ------

> All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. The Radical Truth is Radiance of

Awareness. It is Total Independence and Ever Present. The Truth needs no

psychological or spiritual crutches. It needs no philosophy, no religion, no

explanation, no teaching, and no teacher, and yet It is always their support. A

true devotee relishes in the Truth. The Truth of Self-Knowledge which is Pure

Intelligence. Welcome all to a.

 

--

Enter The Silence to know God...and...accept life as the teacher.

 

Gloria Joy Greco

e-mail me at: lodpress

visit my homepage & internet retreat at: http://users.intercomm.com/larryn/

[Guest guest]

> > I agree with you about sound and vibrations as being a doorway into

> higher consciousness through that silence. Thanks for sharing. Glroia

>

> Yesss the sounds get subtler .. leading the mind into transcendence of the

> mantra ..

 

Hellllooo Gloria & Col & everyone...

 

It is only when I am in a state of unending desire to see another as myself,

to see oneness instead of separation, with a person I am having great

difficulty with, that total silence and utterly awesome quiet comes upon me

-- in the twinkling of an eye (!) -- the world of illusion is transformed

into a world of light... allowing me to see things as they truly are -- a

state of everything is the same (and open to perceptions), and that nothing

really matters.

 

After originally being in this unbelievable believable state I didn't know

existed, I continued on with mantras, serious disciplined meditation, and

long study periods, thinking this 'was the way' for me to go. LOL

 

Repeating endless mantras was a major part of my discipline, and found them,

the studying, the long meditations, to eventually be a (pain the the butt)

as it was sooo much to me a form of having to *do* something, seemingly

endlessly until the mantra took over itself, to get to the place of

transcendence. In my experiences, it was a form of escapism taking me out of

body, into a world of no space, no time, the beginning, the present, the

end... helping one to see the world of illusion in its entirety. Helpful,

yes... but not *real* experiences.

 

It only proved to me that we think we are a body and we have a need to escape

from it. The true transcendant experiences proved to me that I am not a

body, that the light is within me now, and I need only be willing to see this

world, another person, another thing or situation, it its true form.

 

It is only when I get confused here in this body that I think I need to *do*

anything to get to where I AM. I truly need do nothing, but be willing to

see.

 

ivan: Yes. There is no way to get out of the inner self through the inner self!!

It is the thought projected image that says that i must do this or that in order

to get there. But the very thing that is suposed to get there, is the thing that

is in

the way. The self that is making the efforts, considers itself an inner

onlooker,

a fixed observer, and at the same time it desires to change!!!! It is taken to

be fixed, constant, and liable to become better in time.....That is the source

of conflict.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/13/99 4:18:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

lodpress writes:

> It is that place inside where you accept everything in life as perfect so

> that the mind and emotions don't continue to manipulate.

 

Yes, there is a place inside that does accept everything in life as perfect,

but this acceptance does NOT eliminate the internal or external chatter &

conflict, or help make any permanent changes. Why? Because in truth

everything is perfect. But we have to honestly say we are not in truth. It

is like finding truth in what is false -- impossible. It placates the ego

for awhile, accepting who you are (spirit), and leaves you with not being

able to do a damn thing to change. This has been my experience.

 

This incorrectly-placed acceptance is a widely deranged thought system of

the spiritual community, to keep egos happy and at peace. It paints flowers

all over everything and makes it pretty. It *sees* spirit in ego

(impossible!). I've lived in flower-world, and it really does nothing but

appease the ego.

> This interior acceptance is an inner knowing of spirit that simply says

there is nothing to do, nothing to change, nothing to want. It is already

manifest in its

> perfection.

 

Yes, this beautifully perfect spirit is there. But so is ego (at least

mine). And the two do not... cannot... work well together, except with

acceptance. But there is a problem with that thought system -- there is no

ego! How can you accept what is not there? Only the ego can.... and the

ego does. It accepts its perfection in all its glory... keeping everyone

happy and beautiful. Temporarily.

 

<So one simple breaths into it and allow spirit to move however

> and whatever way it happens to do it.

 

I did this, and ego and the world was happy. For awhile.

>This interior knowing is transformational, it flows out and works through

spirit manifesting on many levels because that which you are...is so far

reaching that the human mind can not grasp the workings of this state of

atonement because it is

transcendental. Gloria G

 

Anytime you give love and acceptance, things happen. It cannot help but

happen.

In this sense, I am with you and in total agreement. But as long as one has

the ego still clouding the mind with its conflicts and demands, one cannot

give true permanent love and acceptance. It doesn't matter whether this is

coming at you externally in the form of another whacked-out ego, or your own

internal demanding ego. Acceptance of the 'perfection of it all' will not

transform anything or any body as long as the ego is screaming to be heard.

 

Acceptance is not for accepting all things as perfect. Acceptance is not of

spirit, but from spirit, as a way to look at the ego and allow changes in

your own mind to be made. It is truly looking at one's ego stuff -- yours

or anothers habits, yours or anothers (mis)behaviors, anything that is

creating conflict within your mind -- and accepting your/their own behavior

as something you have no power over, no matter what you do, or don't do. It

is with this acceptance that we surrender our powerlessness to change our own

mind. It is this acceptance AND surrender, that eliminates what was never

there, but we thought was. It is bring what is false to truth.

 

At this point, there is nothing left to *do*. Change of mind is inevitable

with effortless action finally. No acceptance needed of what is or is not.

 

Yes, acceptance and surrender are the keys to change, but we have to be aware

what it is we accept and surrender if we want any true changes to occur,

internally or externally.

 

Thanks for your help and clarity Gloria!

 

Much Love,

xxxtg

[Guest guest]

It is that place inside where you accept everything in life as perfect so that

the mind and emotions don't continue to manipulate. This interior acceptance is

an inner knowing of spirit that simply says there is nothing to do, nothing to

change, nothing to want. It is already manifest in its perfection. So one simple

breaths into it and allow spirit to move however and whatever way it happens to

do it. This interior knowing is

transformational, it flows out and works through spirit manifesting on many

levels because that which you are...is so far reaching that the human mind can

not grasp the workings of this state of atonement because it is transcendental.

Gloria G

 

LeTeegee wrote:

> LeTeegee

>

> In a message dated 9/13/99 2:05:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

> inandor writes:

>

> > ivan: Yes. There is no way to get out of the inner self through the inner

> > self!! It is the thought projected image that says that i must do this or

> that in

> > order to get there. But the very thing that is suposed to get there, is

> the thing

> > that is in the way. The self that is making the efforts, considers itself

> an inner

> > onlooker, a fixed observer, and at the same time it desires to change!!!!

> It is taken to be fixed, constant, and liable to become better in

> time.....That is the

> > source of conflict.

>

> Yes!

>

> So how is it we get our self outta the way?

> That was my great dilemma.

>

> When I finally did get my buttinsky-self outta the way,

> what I found to be full of effort prior

> is now effortless.

> Pain has turned to pleasure,

> and what gave me conflicting pleasure prior

> was turned to pain.

> A reversal of my thought system.

>

> We are all so fulla shit,

> or do-do mentality.

>

> Effortless does not give way to doing,

> but easily being.

>

> I am sooo excited to discover this

> on a whole new level to what

> many of you already know,

> and I only knew intellectually,

> so please excuse me

> while I strengthen my own thoughts and ideas

> on this forum!

>

> Thanks for listening and clarifying...

>

> Love,

> xxxtg

>

> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------

>

> ATTN ONELIST USERS: stay current on the latest activities,

> programs, & features at ONElist by joining our member newsletter at

> <a href=" //onelist_announce ">Click</a>

>

> ------

> All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. The Radical Truth is Radiance of

Awareness. It is Total Independence and Ever Present. The Truth needs no

psychological or spiritual crutches. It needs no philosophy, no religion, no

explanation, no teaching, and no teacher, and yet It is always their support. A

true devotee relishes in the Truth. The Truth of Self-Knowledge which is Pure

Intelligence. Welcome all to a.

 

--

Enter The Silence to know God...and...accept life as the teacher.

 

Gloria Joy Greco

e-mail me at: lodpress

visit my homepage & internet retreat at: http://users.intercomm.com/larryn/

[Guest guest]

Teegee!

>It is only when I am in a state of unending desire to see another as myself,

>to see oneness instead of separation, with a person I am having great

>difficulty with, that total silence and utterly awesome quiet comes upon me

>-- in the twinkling of an eye (!) -- the world of illusion is transformed

>into a world of light... allowing me to see things as they truly are -- a

>state of everything is the same (and open to perceptions), and that nothing

>really matters.

 

Beautiful!

>After originally being in this unbelievable believable state I didn't know

>existed, I continued on with mantras, serious disciplined meditation, and

>long study periods, thinking this 'was the way' for me to go. LOL

>

>Repeating endless mantras was a major part of my discipline, and found them,

>the studying, the long meditations, to eventually be a (pain the the butt)

>as it was sooo much to me a form of having to *do* something, seemingly

>endlessly until the mantra took over itself, to get to the place of

>transcendence. In my experiences, it was a form of escapism taking me out of

>snip<

 

I agree, I've never had any interest in that method... though some people

think it's the greatest.

>ps... Gloria! I just found out I'm going to be a grannie!

> From mom to grannie -- now thats transcendent!

 

That's wonderful!! I'm so happy for you!

 

Love,

Dharma

[Guest guest]

> ivan: Yes. There is no way to get out of the inner self through the inner

> self!! It is the thought projected image that says that i must do this or

that in

> order to get there. But the very thing that is suposed to get there, is

the thing

> that is in the way. The self that is making the efforts, considers itself

an inner

> onlooker, a fixed observer, and at the same time it desires to change!!!!

It is taken to be fixed, constant, and liable to become better in

time.....That is the

> source of conflict.

 

 

Yes!

 

So how is it we get our self outta the way?

That was my great dilemma.

 

ivan: ...so after having read some other posts, i am concluding

that you are being serious :^) with this question. Sorry...i am new

in this neyghborhood. I´we been told that i missed some good manners

classes.....never mind.....and i am not a teacher also....i am just

a.....hmmmmm....warrior.....trying to be impecable.

Yes...the self. The self is a set of behaviour patterns, thought patterns

and images from the past....including some from within the bathroom

as a pre-teenager. Those set of reaction patterns, and thought-made

images are not realy the problem. the weird thing in all this is that a

boundary was constructed somehow....enclosing this set of images,

and the content is taken as being "outside of the universe". funny as

it souds - that is what we make. We indeed maneged to find a place

outside the universal order to posit that inner self. Once the absurdity

of such asumption is realized, and any and all events from within or

without the organism are seen as universal events that share the nature

and origin in time and out of it of anything else (what other possibility is

there?)

the boundary is droped. And then what remains are only patterns, thoughts,

feelings, winds, tornados, birds, mountains, rivers, images, actions, voices

senses, touches, friendship, rakoon, snake, stone, air, a leg, an arm etc...

.....all cosmic events, belonging to the same order. Where is that thing that

is able not to share all this? Is there another univese?

 

nighty.....nighty.....

 

===============================================

Diálogos em Português sobre o universo não-dual. Vá até

www. e busque: - Unicidade - Seja bem-vindo.

===============================================

[Guest guest]

> ivan: Yes. There is no way to get out of the inner self through the

> inner self!!

> It is the thought projected image that says that i must do this or

> that in order

> to get there. But the very thing that is suposed to get there, is the

> thing that is in

> the way. The self that is making the efforts, considers itself an

> inner onlooker,

> a fixed observer, and at the same time it desires to change!!!! It is

> taken to

> be fixed, constant, and liable to become better in time.....That is

> the source

> of conflict.

 

Antoine:

 

Walking

 

Lost in self,

I can only exist.

 

One light, of a glow that looses itself,

No more sustains me.

 

Antoine

[Guest guest]

LeTeegee wrote:

> LeTeegee

>

> In a message dated 9/13/99 4:18:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

> lodpress writes:

>

> > It is that place inside where you accept everything in life as perfect so

> > that the mind and emotions don't continue to manipulate.

>

> Yes, there is a place inside that does accept everything in life as perfect,

> but this acceptance does NOT eliminate the internal or external chatter &

> conflict, or help make any permanent changes. Why? Because in truth

> everything is perfect. But we have to honestly say we are not in truth. It

> is like finding truth in what is false -- impossible. It placates the ego

> for awhile, accepting who you are (spirit), and leaves you with not being

> able to do a damn thing to change. This has been my experience.

 

G

Duality comes from the mind and the solar plexus energy, I, me, mine or as you

say the ego. The surrender happens from the heart where only love and letting go

is in charge. The self or duality as we communicate about it ...is that part

which brings you back to the I, me, mine. The surrender in truth when manifest

from total heart, mind, and soul will consumate in an explosion of energy which

will eventually wipe the slate clean.

This is the process, and learning to detach and be the witness will take you

into it in such a way that union isn't no longer a fantasy but a reality. The

process is that of the individual self coming to bring full heart, soul, focus

and energy to surrender. To the extent that the energy is brought to focus with

total focus and surrender will directly reflect in the union and the release of

energy to do the work. So yes, everything

is perfect, by allowing spirit to become real to you and making heart

connections to people so that the heart center will open up and bloosom, each

petal will enchance the interior knowing, while the pure frequency of love will

do the work without thought or effort of any kind.

>

> TG

> This incorrectly-placed acceptance is a widely deranged thought system of

> the spiritual community, to keep egos happy and at peace. It paints flowers

> all over everything and makes it pretty. It *sees* spirit in ego

> (impossible!). I've lived in flower-world, and it really does nothing but

> appease the ego.

 

G

What I'm talking about is as far from this as you can imagine. It is in fact

commitment, surrender and accountability to the Higher Self. No room for games

and make believe because the Higher Self or True Self is in charge and will test

one into the surrender process. The testing is the perfection in action, since

the Higher spirit knowing will direct the spiritual training.

> G

>

> > This interior acceptance is an inner knowing of spirit that simply says

> there is nothing to do, nothing to change, nothing to want. It is already

> manifest in its

> > perfection.

> TG

> Yes, this beautifully perfect spirit is there. But so is ego (at least

> mine). And the two do not... cannot... work well together, except with

> acceptance. But there is a problem with that thought system -- there is no

> ego! How can you accept what is not there? Only the ego can.... and the

> ego does. It accepts its perfection in all its glory... keeping everyone

> happy and beautiful. Temporarily.

 

G

Once you are into the knowledge which you are communicating, you are to aware to

buy into the fantasy, you can't verbalize what you have here and not know the

difference. You know the difference quite well and also know perfectly well the

game the ego tries to pull off, that part of your life is over because you are

aware of it. There comes a time when the soul awareness is strong enough that it

sees right through the illusion, you

are verbalizing what is your experience because you are seeing through the

illusion. Now you use your witnessing and observing...as that within you

witness's... you will notice that the emotion and thoughts evaporate because the

witness is your higher self.

 

That which you are...then is now clear in front of you. Go inside deeper into

your asking...who am I? Let it lead you inside deeper into your question.

 

When a person no longer can play the game which duality manifests, it is a very

good sign. This means you are stepping over the line into accountability and a

profound knowing of what is involved.

>

> G

> <So one simple breaths into it and allow spirit to move however

> > and whatever way it happens to do it.

> TG

> I did this, and ego and the world was happy. For awhile.

> G

> >This interior knowing is transformational, it flows out and works through

> spirit manifesting on many levels because that which you are...is so far

> reaching that the human mind can not grasp the workings of this state of

> atonement because it is

> transcendental.

> TG

> Anytime you give love and acceptance, things happen. It cannot help but

> happen.

> In this sense, I am with you and in total agreement. But as long as one has

> the ego still clouding the mind with its conflicts and demands, one cannot

> give true permanent love and acceptance. It doesn't matter whether this is

> coming at you externally in the form of another whacked-out ego, or your own

> internal demanding ego. Acceptance of the 'perfection of it all' will not

> transform anything or any body as long as the ego is screaming to be heard.

 

G

It is ok, detach and observe, meditate and surrender. The people I work with

also use an interior conversation with God which is you connecting up to that

True Self. Because one needs to witness the conversation and hear the words flow

out, not from mind, from spirit. This is you opening up to your soul and evoking

that part of you to come through. This is a powerful point of union which will

bring you into a new awareness of that

which you are. Does this make any sense to you?

>

> TG

> Acceptance is not for accepting all things as perfect. Acceptance is not of

> spirit, but from spirit, as a way to look at the ego and allow changes in

> your own mind to be made. It is truly looking at one's ego stuff -- yours

> or anothers habits, yours or anothers (mis)behaviors, anything that is

> creating conflict within your mind -- and accepting your/their own behavior

> as something you have no power over, no matter what you do, or don't do. It

> is with this acceptance that we surrender our powerlessness to change our own

> mind. It is this acceptance AND surrender, that eliminates what was never

> there, but we thought was. It is bring what is false to truth.

>

> At this point, there is nothing left to *do*. Change of mind is inevitable

> with effortless action finally. No acceptance needed of what is or is not.

>

> Yes, acceptance and surrender are the keys to change, but we have to be aware

> what it is we accept and surrender if we want any true changes to occur,

> internally or externally.

>

> Thanks for your help and clarity Gloria!

 

G

What you are confronting is important, go inside and allow your will to

surrender into your higher knowing. That which you are is pure will, love an

purpose, let it come through so you know it. Gloria

>

>

> Much Love,

> xxxtg

>

>

>

> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------

>

> Congratulations to The Fiction Writer. Our latest ONElist of the Week.

> For full story and to submit yours, go to

> <a href=" http://clickme./ad/ootw26 ">Click Here</a>

>

> ------

> All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. The Radical Truth is Radiance of

Awareness. It is Total Independence and Ever Present. The Truth needs no

psychological or spiritual crutches. It needs no philosophy, no religion, no

explanation, no teaching, and no teacher, and yet It is always their support. A

true devotee relishes in the Truth. The Truth of Self-Knowledge which is Pure

Intelligence. Welcome all to a.

 

--

Enter The Silence to know God...and...accept life as the teacher.

 

Gloria Joy Greco

e-mail me at: lodpress

visit my homepage & internet retreat at: http://users.intercomm.com/larryn/