Ivan/dreams

[Guest guest]

Ivan: <snip> The self is a set of behaviour patterns, thought patterns

and images from the past....including some from within the bathroom

as a pre-teenager. Those set of reaction patterns, and thought-made

images are not realy the problem. the weird thing in all this is that a

boundary was constructed somehow....enclosing this set of images,

and the content is taken as being "outside of the universe". funny as

it souds - that is what we make. We indeed maneged to find a place

outside the universal order to posit that inner self. ...

 

Dan: The boundary is inherent within each image and the set of images and

reactions. If there is no separate self to form the boundary, where

did it come from? It could only come from "the world." How? Through

language, culture, expectation... But why would these form a self where

none was? "The world" itself is a projection, requiring a self in

response, and the self is therefore the projection of a projection. Who

or what is the projector? No one can say. That is what is truly striking

- projections interacting with no way to say anything about the

"projector" or "dreamer" that isn't itself projection or dream material.

 

We could say that the projection originates nowhere, and the "screen" for

the projection is nothingness. The senses are then the fabric of a dream,

the body a dream-image, and awareness is free to move in and out of the

dream in a moment. If we do this, all changes - the "intent" of the body

to survive, enjoy and replicate becomes far less focal, the "self" of the

body is absent, the "mind" of the body can't be found, and the "world"

itself is a dream image. As far as the disruptions and violence found in

that dream - these are the sometimes nightmarish reflections of a

dream process that has dissociated from the "dreamer" or"projector" as the

false self of the dream attempts to maintain the world around itself.

When the world is no longer occurring around a self or selves, what is it

then?

 

Ivan: ...indeed maneged to find a place

outside the universal order to posit that inner self. Once the

absurdity

of such asumption is realized, and any and all events from within or

without the organism are seen as universal events that share the nature

and origin in time and out of it of anything else (what other

possibility is there?)

the boundary is droped. And then what remains are only patterns,

thoughts,

feelings, winds, tornados, birds, mountains, rivers, images,

actions, voices

senses, touches, friendship, rakoon, snake, stone, air, a leg, an

arm etc...

....all cosmic events, belonging to the same order. Where is thing that

is able not to share all this? Is there another univese?

 

Dan: As self is dropped, world images lose any center around which to find

"meaning." What then is the "universal order?" Universal compared to

what? What is "not universal" then? Only nothing is ... these projected

images might be amazing, but to whom? There is no "why" to

this dream, its emptiness is resounding... to lose the self is to lose

any grounding for "dream interpretation" or "dream reactions"

[Guest guest]

Ivan: <snip> The self is a set of behaviour patterns, thought patterns

and images from the past....including some from within the bathroom

as a pre-teenager. Those set of reaction patterns, and thought-made

images are not realy the problem. the weird thing in all this is that a

boundary was constructed somehow....enclosing this set of images,

and the content is taken as being "outside of the universe". funny as

it souds - that is what we make. We indeed maneged to find a place

outside the universal order to posit that inner self. ...

 

Dan: The boundary is inherent within each image and the set of images and

reactions. If there is no separate self to form the boundary, where

did it come from? It could only come from "the world." How? Through

language, culture, expectation... But why would these form a self where

none was? "The world" itself is a projection, requiring a self in

response, and the self is therefore the projection of a projection. Who

or what is the projector? No one can say. That is what is truly striking

- projections interacting with no way to say anything about the

"projector" or "dreamer" that isn't itself projection or dream material.

 

ivan: Olá, Dan....

 

Straight to work....LOL. What do you mean by world? The human world?

If that is the case, i don´t think it is nescessary to have a self at all. The

human

world can be lived without that enclosed "outsider"....BTW, much better

without it....

 

.....We could say that the projection originates nowhere, and the "screen" for

the projection is nothingness. The senses are then the fabric of a dream,

the body a dream-image, and awareness is free to move in and out of the

dream in a moment. If we do this, all changes - the "intent" of the body

to survive, enjoy and replicate becomes far less focal, the "self" of the

body is absent, the "mind" of the body can't be found, and the "world"

itself is a dream image.

 

ivan.. yes, and we are dealing here with to set of dreams, very different

from each other. The dreams we have driving from home to work, are

of one kind, and the aspect of the human world we live in usualy....it´s another

matter. One can stop daydreamind, in the sense that one understands the thought

process, the self is then absent....but the habitual world still goes on....To

halt

the habitual world itself is possible.....but that requiers a different

action....that may

be understood as "alternate realities" within the human possibilities.

 

..... As far as the disruptions and violence found in

that dream - these are the sometimes nightmarish reflections of a

dream process that has dissociated from the "dreamer" or"projector" as the

false self of the dream attempts to maintain the world around itself.

When the world is no longer occurring around a self or selves, what is it

then?

 

ivan....then it is obvious that the dreamer is the dream....

 

Ivan: ...indeed maneged to find a place

outside the universal order to posit that inner self. Once the

absurdity

of such asumption is realized, and any and all events from within or

without the organism are seen as universal events that share the nature

and origin in time and out of it of anything else (what other

possibility is there?)

the boundary is droped. And then what remains are only patterns,

thoughts,

feelings, winds, tornados, birds, mountains, rivers, images,

actions, voices

senses, touches, friendship, rakoon, snake, stone, air, a leg, an

arm etc...

....all cosmic events, belonging to the same order. Where is thing that

is able not to share all this? Is there another univese?

 

Dan: As self is dropped, world images lose any center around which to find

"meaning." What then is the "universal order?" Universal compared to

what? What is "not universal" then? Only nothing is ... these projected

images might be amazing, but to whom? There is no "why" to

this dream, its emptiness is resounding... to lose the self is to lose

any grounding for "dream interpretation" or "dream reactions"

 

ivan:.....i get you.....but your use of the word world is not clear. The self

becomes an universal event, and i still find my way home, pat my dog...etc...

.....the world is real. Are you sugesting that one goes ....like...blank....?

 

Good to see you again.....