All is as it should be.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/15/99 1:52:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

hluthar writes:

> Harsha: Agreed Andrew. Seeing others in suffering, we do not feel that

> everything is just fine as it should be. In fact, we feel much anguish and

> pain.

 

Ouch, yes.

I realize now why it was so important for me my whole life to make people

happy.

I didn't realize it was an empathic thing.... when they are happy, I am.

When they are sad or angry, so am I.

 

This past year for me has been interesting and strange. A close and dear

friend of mine has been hospitalized since last September, unable to eat

anything because of complications. I've watched him waste away to nothing,

until he finally passed away a couple of weeks ago. I felt every emotion he

felt, and thought the feelings were mine at different times throughout the

year. Loneliness, hopelessness, frustration, abandonment, wishing I weren't

a body having to live like this, much more. It was a terrible experience for

him, and for me. I knew I was connecting to him, but the emotional suffering

would be so bad at times, I would think it was mine. Once aware of it

though, I was able to let go and observe, and surrender the whole process for

healing.

 

Everytime I discovered the oneness going on between us, and I surrendered

this empathy, it would let go and be healed, in both of us -- whatever

emotion we would be feeling. It was only when this past month, that I began

to *feel* "oh my God, I do not want to live like this -- either I want to be

well and live, truly live... or I want to die and go home to God. I was

hysterical that day (I can be sooo dramatic), as I have not had thoughts like

these since my spiritual path began many years ago. I thought these were my

thoughts, my suffering. I found out shortly thereafter that my friend Hardy

had been feeling the same way the past few days.

 

Once I understood what was going on, I could easily observe and surrender

them. It was a few days later that Hardy passed on the day before he was to

have but another very painful operation he had decided upon, that would fix

him, or he would pass on. When he died, I felt confusion for a few days --

I didn't quite know what I was confused about, but I could easily observe the

feelings. It was as if I was understanding, truly beginning to understand,

that I am not a body. I knew Hardy was still connecting to me, beyond his

passing on.

 

Then one day, I felt at peace. Totally reconnected to my source. Conflicts

were gone that I had been feeling soooo intensely this past year. I

realized that Hardy finally reached his own home with God.

 

With this empathy I felt with him, it helped me in more ways than I could

ever imagine. It reconnected me to myself. This empathy released many

conflicts I have had for years, but he brought them to the forefront for me

to look at, and surrender. His healing was mine.

 

Love,

xxxtg

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/15/99 10:18:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

hluthar writes:

> From Bruce Morgan:

>

> The veil both hides and

> hints at the beauty

> behind it. That which

> confers beauty on the

> veil is none other than

> the bride. The illusion

> is not the veil, but the

> notion that there is

> nothing other than the

> veil.

 

I missed seeing this from Bruce. It is beautiful!

> And TG said, "Fake it until you make it! :-)

 

For years and years, I faked orgasm with my hubby, thinking I was never going

to reach that goal of what everyone was talking about. The least I could do

was fake it to make him feel okay about it. :-) I never really cared about

it. :-(

 

One day, I woke up and realized that I had been orgasm(ing) for years --

usually at the point of his own orgasm (which came after my own fakism). It

was sooo funny! It just wasn't what I had expected, *bells* and all that.

I've loved sex ever since. I stopped the *faking*, and the hubby all of a

sudden felt inadequate and couldn't reach his own, so dammit, I couldn't have

my own. Once explaining it, everything was as it should be.

 

Sometime it takes me awhile...

Love,

xxxtg

[Guest guest]

I'm just sorry to bring anger into satsang. If something

terrible is happening to me personally and I accept it as

karma, that's fine and noble. But if I see thousands of

children being hacked to pieces, then I have a hard time

accepting that it's their karma, all is as it should be.

 

andrew

 

 

Harsha: Agreed Andrew. Seeing others in suffering, we do not feel that

everything is just fine as it should be. In fact, we feel much anguish and

pain. This is why we admire people like Mother Theresa, who work their whole

life to lessen the suffering of others. The feeling of Ahimsa towards all

beings is the mark of the Sage.

 

Here is the Jain Mantra that my teacher Chitrabhanuji uttered at the end of

each lecture......

 

..Harsha

 

 

Sivam astu sarva jagatah

Parahita nirata bhavantu bhutagana

Doshah prayantu nasam

Sarvatra sukhi bhavantu lokaha

 

 

Blessings be to the entire cosmos.

May every one be completely engrossed in each others' well-being.

May all weaknesses, faults, illnesses, and karmas be removed and evaporated.

Everywhere let everyone be in peace, prosperity, health, and bliss.

[Guest guest]

Teegee!

 

This is such an interesting and beautiful story. May I have your

permission to repost it?

 

This is what it feels like to clear for someone else... to feel the same

thing, and when you clear it, it's gone from the other person too. It's

wonderful that your rapport continued beyond his death, so his experience

helped you recover too.

 

It may happen again... if you feel emotions and thoughts, even physical

discomfort, that you don't know of a reason for, you can ask your guidance

if it's yours or someone else's. As you said, it's often easier to clear

when you know it comes from someone else.

 

Love,

Dharma

>This past year for me has been interesting and strange. A close and dear

>friend of mine has been hospitalized since last September, unable to eat

>anything because of complications. I've watched him waste away to nothing,

>until he finally passed away a couple of weeks ago. I felt every emotion he

>felt, and thought the feelings were mine at different times throughout the

>year. Loneliness, hopelessness, frustration, abandonment, wishing I weren't

>a body having to live like this, much more. It was a terrible experience for

>him, and for me. I knew I was connecting to him, but the emotional suffering

>would be so bad at times, I would think it was mine. Once aware of it

>though, I was able to let go and observe, and surrender the whole process for

>healing.

>

>Everytime I discovered the oneness going on between us, and I surrendered

>this empathy, it would let go and be healed, in both of us -- whatever

>emotion we would be feeling. It was only when this past month, that I began

>to *feel* "oh my God, I do not want to live like this -- either I want to be

>well and live, truly live... or I want to die and go home to God. I was

>hysterical that day (I can be sooo dramatic), as I have not had thoughts like

>these since my spiritual path began many years ago. I thought these were my

>thoughts, my suffering. I found out shortly thereafter that my friend Hardy

>had been feeling the same way the past few days.

>

>Once I understood what was going on, I could easily observe and surrender

>them. It was a few days later that Hardy passed on the day before he was to

>have but another very painful operation he had decided upon, that would fix

>him, or he would pass on. When he died, I felt confusion for a few days --

>I didn't quite know what I was confused about, but I could easily observe the

>feelings. It was as if I was understanding, truly beginning to understand,

>that I am not a body. I knew Hardy was still connecting to me, beyond his

>passing on.

>

>Then one day, I felt at peace. Totally reconnected to my source. Conflicts

>were gone that I had been feeling soooo intensely this past year. I

>realized that Hardy finally reached his own home with God.

>

>With this empathy I felt with him, it helped me in more ways than I could

>ever imagine. It reconnected me to myself. This empathy released many

>conflicts I have had for years, but he brought them to the forefront for me

>to look at, and surrender. His healing was mine.

>

>Love,

>xxxtg

>

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>------

>All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. The Radical Truth is

>Radiance of Awareness. It is Total Independence and Ever Present. The

>Truth needs no psychological or spiritual crutches. It needs no

>philosophy, no religion, no explanation, no teaching, and no teacher, and

>yet It is always their support. A true devotee relishes in the Truth. The

>Truth of Self-Knowledge which is Pure Intelligence. Welcome all to

>a.

[Guest guest]

This is an awesome sharing ~ the whole post was .. thankyou Teegee ~

 

Luv,

 

Colette

 

LeTeegee wrote:

> Then one day, I felt at peace. Totally reconnected to my source. Conflicts

> were gone that I had been feeling soooo intensely this past year. I

> realized that Hardy finally reached his own home with God.

>

> With this empathy I felt with him, it helped me in more ways than I could

> ever imagine. It reconnected me to myself. This empathy released many

> conflicts I have had for years, but he brought them to the forefront for me

> to look at, and surrender. His healing was mine.

>

> Love,

> xxxtg

[Guest guest]

can you tell me how to unsuscribe?

[Guest guest]

>"Jan Barendrecht" <janb

>

>On 9/15/99 at 9:50 AM Max Harris wrote:

>

>[...]

>>I totally agree with you, Andrew. I reject the

>>"all is as it should be" belief as vehemently

>>as I reject Calvinist predestination.

>>

>>Choices are real, and evil must be fought with as

>>much energy as we seek to dispel ignorance.

>>

>>-- Max

>

>So why not deeds instead of mere words and become a "freedom

>fighter"? There are many cases like Eastern Timor going on and

>several are in Indonesia.

 

Yes, but are there any going on in Minnesota?

 

When I was a young bachelor and struggles were hot in Guatemala

and El Salvador, I though of going down, but I have no military

training and I don't speak Spanish, so I got involved in support

groups up here. I may be on file with the FBI for CISPES work.

 

Now I'm married and have a 10-year-old daughter, still no

military training, and whatever languages they speak

in Indonesia, I probably don't know them. I fear I would

be a nuisance and a burden if I tried to help as a freedom

fighter.

 

Some of us are situated where we must fight evil with words

and nonviolent political actions rather than with guns.

 

And I don't think I'd feel good killing even evil people,

anyway; it's not yogic.

 

-- Max

 

---------------------------

FREE - yourname - Visit http://www.philosophers.net

[Guest guest]

Andrew,

 

In reading of your emotional response, I thought of a poem by

Rilke that seems to encapsulate this whole issue of accepting

the horrible fate of others and its effect on our own lives.

I'm just sorry to bring anger into satsang. If something

> I'm just sorry to bring anger into satsang. If something

> terrible is happening to me personally and I accept it as

> karma, that's fine and noble. But if I see thousands of

> children being hacked to pieces, then I have a hard time

> accepting that it's their karma, all is as it should be.

>

> andrew

 

"As once the winged energy of delight

carried you over childhood's dark abysses,

now beyond your own life build the great

arch of unimagined bridges.

Wonders happen if we can succeed

in passing through the harshest danger;

but only in a bright and purely granted

achievement can we realize the wonder.

To work with Things in the indescribable

relationship is not too hard for us;

the pattern grows more intricate and subtle,

and being swept along is not enough.

Take your practiced powers and stretch them out

until they span the chasm between two

condradictions....For the God wants

to know himself in you."

 

 

Love

Raven

[Guest guest]

On 9/15/99 at 3:19 PM Max Harris wrote:

>"Max Harris" <max_harris

>

>>"Jan Barendrecht" <janb

>>

>>On 9/15/99 at 9:50 AM Max Harris wrote:

>>

>>[...]

>>>I totally agree with you, Andrew. I reject the

>>>"all is as it should be" belief as vehemently

>>>as I reject Calvinist predestination.

>>>

>>>Choices are real, and evil must be fought with as

>>>much energy as we seek to dispel ignorance.

>>>

>>>-- Max

>>

>>So why not deeds instead of mere words and become a "freedom

>>fighter"? There are many cases like Eastern Timor going on

and

>>several are in Indonesia.

>

>Yes, but are there any going on in Minnesota?

 

No, because in the US, a freedom fighter would be called

terrorist.

>

>When I was a young bachelor and struggles were hot in

Guatemala

>and El Salvador, I though of going down, but I have no

military

>training and I don't speak Spanish, so I got involved in

support

>groups up here. I may be on file with the FBI for CISPES

work.

 

I was involved in anti-military actions during the Vietnam

war. One of the results was a kind of revenge from the secret

police: phone tapped and mail read for some fifteen years, a

"decent" job was impossible as was emigration.

>

>Now I'm married and have a 10-year-old daughter, still no

>military training, and whatever languages they speak

>in Indonesia, I probably don't know them. I fear I would

>be a nuisance and a burden if I tried to help as a freedom

>fighter.

 

As a rule, a colonized country becomes a colonizer (like

China, Indonesia) or will get thorn apart by civil war.

Summarizing, greed spreads easier in a poor country than in a

rich one. In many cases, the dawning of insight is only

brought about by suffering. So it is unlikely to be of any

service.

>Some of us are situated where we must fight evil with words

>and nonviolent political actions rather than with guns.

 

Some Indian elder once stated something like "only when the

last green is from dollar bills, man will discover he cannot

make a salad out of them". How rapidly this event is

approaching can be estimated by a recent message, added at the

end.

>And I don't think I'd feel good killing even evil people,

>anyway; it's not yogic.

>

>-- Max

 

That would be dependent on circumstances. When there is no

alternative but to fight, one is reminded of the Bagavad Gita

and the fact that "good" and "evil" are relative and there is

no choice but to perform a duty. Some duties are implicit,

like taking care of the environment if one has children.

 

Jan

------------------------------

------

 

To all fellow human beings:

 

Take heed, for the Earth is in danger. This is a

plea for your undivided attention. The Earth needs

your help.

 

Did you know:

 

That two thirds of all species will be extinct by

the year 2100?

 

That the ice caps are rapidly melting?

 

That carbon dioxide levels have doubled in the past

100 years and are predicted to continue increasing

exponentially?

 

That fish populations are in decline all over the

world due to over-fishing?

 

That your automobile spits out three times its weight

in pollution each year?

 

That pesticides, medications, and other man made

chemicals end up in our drinking water and our

natural habitat?

 

If the carbon dioxide emissions are not curbed, then

the Earth's temperature will certainly increase.

This will cause ecosystem upheaval as well as

increased droughts in some areas and heavier rains

in others. This is already occurring.

 

ALL OF THESE ARE SIGNS THAT THE EARTH IS IN DANGER

 

But there is hope! All it takes is a little will and

effort. Each of you has the potential to do his or

her part to help protect the planet.

 

This help will not come from government regulation,

nor from educational curricula. Instead, it will

come from each and every one of us.

 

Therefore, I implore you as human beings, to look

out at the Earth today and reach out a hand to help.

Teach your children to love and respect nature, for

the Earth is everyone's parent.

 

When you go to work, visualize the impact you job

has on the environment. How can you change and

reduce that impact?

 

When you are home, consider what you can do to

reduce the impact your life has on the environment.

 

Only by working together can we as human beings

preserve and protect this beautiful blue pearl.

Do it for your children as well, as they are the

ultimate benefactor of your actions.

 

Open your eyes and you will see that you can be of

great help.

 

The Earth needs help from us all.

 

Sincerely,

A Fellow Human Being

[Guest guest]

Beautiful poem,... Thank you . Gloria

 

Raven McCloud wrote:

> Raven McCloud <RavenMcCloud

>

> Andrew,

>

> In reading of your emotional response, I thought of a poem by

> Rilke that seems to encapsulate this whole issue of accepting

> the horrible fate of others and its effect on our own lives.

> I'm just sorry to bring anger into satsang. If something

>

> > I'm just sorry to bring anger into satsang. If something

> > terrible is happening to me personally and I accept it as

> > karma, that's fine and noble. But if I see thousands of

> > children being hacked to pieces, then I have a hard time

> > accepting that it's their karma, all is as it should be.

> >

> > andrew

>

> "As once the winged energy of delight

> carried you over childhood's dark abysses,

> now beyond your own life build the great

> arch of unimagined bridges.

> Wonders happen if we can succeed

> in passing through the harshest danger;

> but only in a bright and purely granted

> achievement can we realize the wonder.

> To work with Things in the indescribable

> relationship is not too hard for us;

> the pattern grows more intricate and subtle,

> and being swept along is not enough.

> Take your practiced powers and stretch them out

> until they span the chasm between two

> condradictions....For the God wants

> to know himself in you."

>

> Love

> Raven

>

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> ------

> All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. The Radical Truth is Radiance of

Awareness. It is Total Independence and Ever Present. The Truth needs no

psychological or spiritual crutches. It needs no philosophy, no religion, no

explanation, no teaching, and no teacher, and yet It is always their support. A

true devotee relishes in the Truth. The Truth of Self-Knowledge which is Pure

Intelligence. Welcome all to a.

 

--

Enter The Silence to know God...and...accept life as the teacher.

 

Gloria Joy Greco

e-mail me at: lodpress

visit my homepage & internet retreat at: http://users.intercomm.com/larryn/