Guest guest Posted September 16, 1999 Report Share Posted September 16, 1999 At 12:33 PM 9/16/99 -0400, you wrote: >"Harsha (Dr. Harsh K. Luthar)" <hluthar >How to attain Perfect Emptiness?! If Perfect Emptiness embraces all things, >how can it be attained? Perfect Emptiness and Perfect Fullness are identical. Of course, we are already both perfectly empty and perfectly full. "Attainment" (the experience of) these things has been detailed a million times by the genuine masters and scriptures of the ages (the Gita, Shankara's works, Buddha's works, the sayings of Jesus, the Upanishads, Ramakrishna/Vivekananda, Ramana Maharshi, J. Krishnamurti, etc). With Love, Tim ----- Visit The Core of the WWW at: http://core.vdirect.net Music, Poetry, Writings on Nondual Spiritual Topics... Tim's Shareware Site: http://tshareware.webjump.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 1999 Report Share Posted September 17, 1999 Tim Gerchmez [core] Thursday, September 16, 1999 8:29 PM Harsha/Re: Merton Tim Gerchmez <core At 12:33 PM 9/16/99 -0400, you wrote: >"Harsha (Dr. Harsh K. Luthar)" <hluthar >How to attain Perfect Emptiness?! If Perfect Emptiness embraces all things, >how can it be attained? Perfect Emptiness and Perfect Fullness are identical. Of course, we are already both perfectly empty and perfectly full. "Attainment" (the experience of) these things has been detailed a million times by the genuine masters and scriptures of the ages (the Gita, Shankara's works, Buddha's works, the sayings of Jesus, the Upanishads, Ramakrishna/Vivekananda, Ramana Maharshi, J. Krishnamurti, etc). With Love, Tim Harsha: Thanks Tim for your insights. Gloria Lee once posted a passage from T.S. Eliot which makes sense to me. From "Four Quartets" by T.S. Eliot We shall not cease from exploration And the end of all our exploring Will be to arrive where we started And know the place for the first time. How beautifully stated! Harsha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 1999 Report Share Posted September 19, 1999 > >At 12:33 PM 9/16/99 -0400, you wrote: >>"Harsha (Dr. Harsh K. Luthar)" <hluthar > >>How to attain Perfect Emptiness?! If Perfect Emptiness embraces all things, >>how can it be attained? > Oh Harsha, you and your questions...:) I cannot answer or say "how", but the word attainment as used may more likely have referred to something other than "to possess" and certainly not "achieved" in the context of the quote it was used from. It more likely means to 'to reach an end' and as there is no end to the infinite, one does NOT get to the end of it. To correct what may be a wrong impression, here is a long answer... (Golly, I was only setting this up to get to the second part, to share Merton's description..and I am the last person to be explaining Buddhism, from experience anyway. I am reading this history book to LEARN about it, ok?) Buddhism seems to allow for many contradictions, due to the many paths or dharma doors available. Then there are many cultural differences from country to country as well. What follows is just one example. Zen would seem to allow for and focus on a more sudden realization in one lifetime (sartori), yet some forms emphasize just doing the practice and not caring if enlightenment comes or not. "We do not sit to gain anything, rather the sitting is itself taking the correct attitude of Zen." Yet very few feel like a Buddha the moment they first sit to meditate. Its important to recognize when experience is being described and when absolute truth of reality is being described. (Gee, these apparent contradictions should be no problem to a nondualist..ha,ha.) In the Tibetan Buddhist context of the original quote, the Dharma Body (dharma-kaya) referred to is the true nature of Buddhahood, symbolic of the completion of the path.. There are 3 manifestation bodies, 1)Nirmana Kaya (the actual physical Buddha, the historical one) 2) Samboga Kaya (embodiment of an ideal teacher such as Amida, the Buddha of infinite love and compassion) 3) Dharma Kaya ("truth body" is a universal principle, an absolute reality, formless) To say one IS a Buddha is considered immodest at the very least. So.. attainment may not be the best word choice for this.. but it seems understandable that for a monk to claim attaining Buddhahood might show a lack of humility. The Dali Lama is considered by his followers to be an incarnation of Avalokiteshvara, the Bodhisattva of Compassion. ( A Sambog a Kaya type of incarnation) He himself always describes himself as a "a simple Buddhist monk." The previous quote in the Merton passage was: "but all leading back to dzogchen, the ultimate emptiness, the unity of shunyata and karuna, going 'beyond the dharmakaya' and 'beyond God' to the ultimate perfect emptiness. Here, shunyata is already emptiness, in the relative and phenomenal sense meaning insubstantiality and dependent origination..and karuna is compassion, yet it means a compassion based on the enlightened experience of the oneness of all beings... these two in unity become ultimate emptiness. "True emptiness is not empty." SO..The short answer perhaps lies in that we have only the one word "emptiness" to translate both phenomenol and absolute realities. To me its like blueberries are good, until you taste those wild, Maine blueberries. The difference is indescribable, yet we call them both blueberries. I would promise never again to use any foreign language terms, but I'm only up to chapter 5 here. Gloria Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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