Re:Ivan/dreams

[Guest guest]

ivan: Olá, Dan....

 

Straight to work....LOL. What do you mean by world? The human world?

If that is the case, i don´t think it is nescessary to have a self at

all. The human

world can be lived without that enclosed "outsider"....BTW, much better

without it....

 

Dan: Finally back here, after dealing with Hurricane Floyd.

I'm discussing "the world" as we see it - the world as it appears to the

senses. The world as description.

When the senses are seen as circular in their logic - their

self-validation is merely used to support further self-validation. When

the interaction of memory and perception is seen as a self-supporting

loop. When all assumptions about "the world" are open to question -

the objectively "given" world is seen for what it is...

a construction of thought and sense (sensation) -- and when sense is seen

for what it is, a manifestation in relativity (projection) from

nothingness - what then?

 

 

ivan.. yes, and we are dealing here with to set of dreams, very different

from each other. The dreams we have driving from home to work, are

of one kind, and the aspect of the human world we live in

usualy....it´s another

matter. One can stop daydreamind, in the sense that one understands the

thought

process, the self is then absent....but the habitual world still goes

on....To halt

the habitual world itself is possible.....but that requiers a different

action....that may

be understood as "alternate realities" within the human possibilities.

 

Dan: True enough. Lucid dreaming in the dream setting for our dreams.

 

 

ivan....then it is obvious that the dreamer is the dream....

 

Dan: Yes.

ivan:.....i get you.....but your use of the word world is not clear. The self

becomes an universal event, and i still find my way home, pat my dog...etc...

.....the world is real. Are you sugesting that one goes ....like...blank....?

 

Good to see you again.....

 

Dan: And you. No, I'm not suggesting going blank. I'm suggesting clarity

beyond the relativity of experience and mind, yet not "against" the

relativity of experience. Clarity in which, when

self and world are "seen through" there is only (....) and yet self and

world continue without duality ... self/world as you suggested

previously, at least as I interpreted your words

[Guest guest]

ivan....then it is obvious that the dreamer is the dream....

 

Dan: Yes.

ivan:.....i get you.....but your use of the word world is not clear. The self

becomes an universal event, and i still find my way home, pat my dog...etc...

.....the world is real. Are you sugesting that one goes ....like...blank....?

 

Good to see you again.....

 

Dan: And you. No, I'm not suggesting going blank. I'm suggesting clarity

beyond the relativity of experience and mind, yet not "against" the

relativity of experience. Clarity in which, when

self and world are "seen through" there is only (....) and yet self and

world continue without duality ... self/world as you suggested

previously, at least as I interpreted your words

 

ivan: I am aware that we have discussed this before, but i would like to

go back to it. Why do you call a set of changing behaviour patterns, a set

of memory associations a self? there is no continuity to them. There is no

fixidity to them. What is that content that you give a name to -- as self?

The "feeling" of continuity in time, of fixidity as an entity, where the

conceptual construct of the former self-centered image projecting entity.