Guest guest Posted September 26, 1999 Report Share Posted September 26, 1999 ivan: From nothingness, this is humanity. And this humanity is "made of" something. This something could be called "primordial stuff", or "primordial matter". And this "primordial stuff" rests on a ground. Is this ground what you two are calling as "this nothingness" here? dan: Humanity arises as the universe - from desire. The ground is desirelessness. Thus, the ground is zero. Ground zero :-) One hairsbreadth of difference and you have something - humanity, stuff ... no difference and where's the need for a ground? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 1999 Report Share Posted September 26, 1999 ivan: From nothingness, this is humanity. And this humanity is "made of" something. This something could be called "primordial stuff", or "primordial matter". And this "primordial stuff" rests on a ground. Is this ground what you two are calling as "this nothingness" here? dan: Humanity arises as the universe - from desire. ivan: Even without desire, i see the stars as a man. I must eat as a man, drink as a man. No need to call me a man... but i am a man... The ground is desirelessness. Thus, the ground is zero. Ground zero :-) ivan: Yes, the ground is zero. The void filled with all.... One hairsbreadth of difference and you have something - humanity, stuff ... no difference and where's the need for a ground? ivan: To need a ground is thought. To desire anything is thought. There is no ground to This. Where is This? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 1999 Report Share Posted September 26, 1999 dan: Humanity arises as the universe - from desire. ivan: Even without desire, i see the stars as a man. I must eat as a man, drink as a man. No need to call me a man... but i am a man... d: to see the stars is desire - to feel oneself existing is desire - eating, drinking, experiencing - to sense pleasure and pain, light and dark, cold and warmth, life and death, safety and vulnerability... <<d: One hairsbreadth of difference and you have something - humanity, stuff ... no difference and where's the need for a ground? ivan: To need a ground is thought. To desire anything is thought. There is no ground to This. Where is This? d: where are you this moment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 1999 Report Share Posted September 26, 1999 dan: Humanity arises as the universe - from desire. ivan: Even without desire, i see the stars as a man. I must eat as a man, drink as a man. No need to call me a man... but i am a man... d: to see the stars is desire - to feel oneself existing is desire - eating, drinking, experiencing - to sense pleasure and pain, light and dark, cold and warmth, life and death, safety and vulnerability... ivan:...er...one starts looking for the truth. One meets emptiness as the origin of all. Then, because it is not possible to remain nothing, one walks back, and meets the friends in the marketplace....There is no such thing as emptiness. There is no such thing as nothingness. There is only manifestation. All manifestation is......alas.....real!! Don´t you see the sunset? Don't you meet your friends? Are not the little flowers beautifull? Do you afirm there something that emptiness can not manifest.....and we as man can, out of a mistake? Are our mistakes more powerfull then that? <<d: One hairsbreadth of difference and you have something - humanity, stuff ... no difference and where's the need for a ground? ivan: To need a ground is thought. To desire anything is thought. There is no ground to This. Where is This? d: where are you this moment? ivan: Yes. All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Nowhere is Now Here. All paths, places, and sights and perceptions exist only in the Space of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Here. You are not "in" the now. You Are the Now! Here is Home. Home is where True Rest Is. Home is where the Heart Is. It is the Seer resting in the Seer, the Self-Nature, the Buddha Nature, or call it what you will. The Radical Truth is Radiance of Awareness. It is both the path, process, and the goal. It is Finality of Being without any support. It is Total Independence and Ever Present. The Truth of the Self needs no psychological or spiritual crutches. It needs no philosophy, no religion, no explanation, no teaching, and no teacher, and yet It is always their support. A true devotee relishes in the Truth. The Truth of Self-Knowledge which is Pure Intelligence. Welcome all to a. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 1999 Report Share Posted September 26, 1999 ivan:...er...one starts looking for the truth. One meets emptiness as the origin of all. Then, because it is not possible to remain nothing, one walks back, and meets the friends in the marketplace.... dan: When one meets friends in the marketplace, there is no difference between nothingness and the marketplace. There is no difference between Origin and this, exactly as it is. I: There is no such thing as emptiness. There is no such thing as nothingness. There is only manifestation. All manifestation is......alas.....real!! D: Not alas ... as there is no separation of emptiness and manifestation!! I: Don't you see the sunset? Don't you meet your friends? Are not the little flowers beautifull? D: Quite beautiful. I: Do you afirm there something that emptiness can not manifest.....and we as man can, out of a mistake? D: No. I: Are our mistakes more powerfull then that? D: Mistakes aren't the end of the world :-) What *is* the end of the world? <<d: One hairsbreadth of difference and you have something - humanity, stuff ... no difference and where's the need for a ground? <<ivan: To need a ground is thought. To desire anything is thought. There is no ground to This. Where is This? <<d: where are you this moment? ivan: Yes. d: Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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