Guest guest Posted September 27, 1999 Report Share Posted September 27, 1999 In a message dated 09/27/1999 10:25:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, editor writes: < > > ivan: Where is the mind apart from > > > a mind object....a thought....a concept. Manifestation is > > > nowhere...as this. R: Mind (as here defined) is observing the thought arise and the thought fall away, it is the awareness of seeing the transient thought. > > > Dan: Somehow the idea that "manifestation is nowhere" doesn't > > > strike > > > me as consistent with your idea that materiality is all > that > > > is. > > > But then, consistency isn't all it's cracked up to be > > > anyway. :-) > > > > > Bruce: > > The word "mind" is thought's > > attempt to depict itself > > (*to* itself!) as an ongoing, > > persistent entity rather than > > the series of transient > > events it is. > > > andrew: > I know what you're saying here > and it's right but wrong too. > Or at least there is something > else to be said. > The ongoing persistent mind > does exist. It has a sort of > formal existence which is neither > reality nor unreality but > somewhere in between. R. Mind does exist. Not reality or unreality, reality. It a concept, a creature of thought. In reality, there are only thoughts, accessing memories, labeling, comparing, measuring, coming and going. Thought accesses memory, discovers there records of other thoughts, and says "mind." > Mind > is true even if not real. R: True and real. So a thought, accessing a memory, asserts. > Continuity is basic to > existence. There is only this very instant, the rest is stored and/or synthesized data. The continuity is an appearance, a useful one to be sure, but an appearance nonetheless. Right the continuity can be see as an Apollonian arrow or as a hologramatic process, more Dionysian, although these are weak terms. Hologram like a crystal sculpture, which can be seen by a person who is standing in the front or in the back or at a different angle from the back, so that the refraction of light is different, creating a different spectrum. Like looking at God~dess. > Look at > transient thought, > there's nothing there. > There's only the one > who is looking. > This one is mind. > Call it what you will, it comes and goes, transient. >> Change is a constant. ~ Rainbo ~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 1999 Report Share Posted September 27, 1999 > > ------------------------------- > > ivan: Where is the mind apart from > > a mind object....a thought....a concept. Manifestation is > > nowhere...as this. > > > > Dan: Somehow the idea that "manifestation is nowhere" doesn't > > strike > > me as consistent with your idea that materiality is all that > > is. > > But then, consistency isn't all it's cracked up to be > > anyway. :-) > > > Bruce: > The word "mind" is thought's > attempt to depict itself > (*to* itself!) as an ongoing, > persistent entity rather than > the series of transient > events it is. > andrew: I know what you're saying here and it's right but wrong too. Or at least there is something else to be said. The ongoing persistent mind does exist. It has a sort of formal existence which is neither reality nor unreality but somewhere in between. Mind is true even if not real. Continuity is basic to existence. Look at transient thought, there's nothing there. There's only the one who is looking. This one is mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 1999 Report Share Posted September 27, 1999 On Mon, 27 Sep 1999 23:00:23 -0300 andrew macnab <a.macnab writes: > andrew macnab <a.macnab > > > > ------------------------------- > > > ivan: Where is the mind apart from > > > a mind object....a thought....a concept. Manifestation is > > > nowhere...as this. > > > > > > Dan: Somehow the idea that "manifestation is nowhere" doesn't > > > strike > > > me as consistent with your idea that materiality is all > that > > > is. > > > But then, consistency isn't all it's cracked up to be > > > anyway. :-) > > > > > Bruce: > > The word "mind" is thought's > > attempt to depict itself > > (*to* itself!) as an ongoing, > > persistent entity rather than > > the series of transient > > events it is. > > > andrew: > I know what you're saying here > and it's right but wrong too. > Or at least there is something > else to be said. > The ongoing persistent mind > does exist. It has a sort of > formal existence which is neither > reality nor unreality but > somewhere in between. It a concept, a creature of thought. In reality, there are only thoughts, accessing memories, labeling, comparing, measuring, coming and going. Thought accesses memory, discovers there records of other thoughts, and says "mind." > Mind > is true even if not real. So a thought, accessing a memory, asserts. > Continuity is basic to > existence. There is only this very instant, the rest is stored and/or synthesized data. The continuity is an appearance, a useful one to be sure, but an appearance nonetheless. > Look at > transient thought, > there's nothing there. > There's only the one > who is looking. > This one is mind. > Call it what you will, it comes and goes, transient. http://come.to/realization http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucemrg.htm http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucsong.htm _ _________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 1999 Report Share Posted September 28, 1999 On Mon, 27 Sep 1999 22:38:18 EDT RainboLily writes: > RainboLily > > In a message dated 09/27/1999 10:25:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > editor writes: > > < > > ivan: Where is the mind apart from > > > > a mind object....a thought....a concept. Manifestation is > > > > nowhere...as this. > > R: Mind (as here defined) is observing the thought arise and the > thought > fall away, it is the awareness of seeing the transient thought. > > > > > Dan: Somehow the idea that "manifestation is nowhere" doesn't > > > > strike > > > > me as consistent with your idea that materiality is all > > that > > > > is. > > > > But then, consistency isn't all it's cracked up to be > > > > anyway. :-) > > > > > > > Bruce: > > > The word "mind" is thought's > > > attempt to depict itself > > > (*to* itself!) as an ongoing, > > > persistent entity rather than > > > the series of transient > > > events it is. > > > > > andrew: > > I know what you're saying here > > and it's right but wrong too. > > Or at least there is something > > else to be said. > > The ongoing persistent mind > > does exist. It has a sort of > > formal existence which is neither > > reality nor unreality but > > somewhere in between. > > R. Mind does exist. Not reality or unreality, reality. > > It's a concept, a creature > of thought. In reality, > there are only thoughts, > accessing memories, > labeling, comparing, > measuring, coming and > going. Thought accesses > memory, discovers there > records of other thoughts, > and says "mind." > > > Mind > > is true even if not real. > > R: True and real. Conceptual and convenient. :-) > > So a thought, accessing a > memory, asserts. > > > Continuity is basic to > > existence. > > There is only this very > instant, the rest is > stored and/or synthesized > data. The continuity is > an appearance, a useful > one to be sure, but an > appearance nonetheless. > > Right the continuity can be see as an Apollonian arrow or as a > hologramatic > process, more Dionysian, although these are weak terms. Hologram > like a > crystal sculpture, which can be seen by a person who is standing in > the front > or in the back or at a different angle from the back, so that the > refraction > of light is different, creating a different spectrum. Like looking > at God~dess. ....or the continuity can be seen as an appearance and the moment fully lived! > > > Look at > > transient thought, > > there's nothing there. > > There's only the one > > who is looking. > > This one is mind. > > > Call it what you will, it > comes and goes, transient. > >> > Change is a constant. > No, it's a variable. Observe a rock, then a dragonfly. Both change, the rates vary. In the moment, nothing changes and all abides, without thought's comparative activity there's no measurement of change. http://come.to/realization http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucemrg.htm http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucsong.htm _ _________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 1999 Report Share Posted September 28, 1999 -- >Bruce Morgen <editor > > > >On Mon, 27 Sep 1999 22:38:18 EDT RainboLily writes: >> RainboLily >> >> In a message dated 09/27/1999 10:25:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >> editor writes: >> >> < > > ivan: Where is the mind apart from >> > > > a mind object....a thought....a concept. Manifestation is >> > > > nowhere...as this. >> >> R: Mind (as here defined) is observing the thought arise and the >> thought >> fall away, it is the awareness of seeing the transient thought. >> >> > > > Dan: Somehow the idea that "manifestation is nowhere" doesn't >> > > > strike >> > > > me as consistent with your idea that materiality is all >> > that >> > > > is. >> > > > But then, consistency isn't all it's cracked up to be >> > > > anyway. :-) >> > > > >> > > Bruce: >> > > The word "mind" is thought's >> > > attempt to depict itself >> > > (*to* itself!) as an ongoing, >> > > persistent entity rather than >> > > the series of transient >> > > events it is. >> > > >> > andrew: >> > I know what you're saying here >> > and it's right but wrong too. >> > Or at least there is something >> > else to be said. >> > The ongoing persistent mind >> > does exist. It has a sort of >> > formal existence which is neither >> > reality nor unreality but >> > somewhere in between. >> >> R. Mind does exist. Not reality or unreality, reality. >> >> It's a concept, a creature >> of thought. In reality, >> there are only thoughts, >> accessing memories, >> labeling, comparing, >> measuring, coming and >> going. Thought accesses >> memory, discovers there >> records of other thoughts, >> and says "mind." >> >> > Mind >> > is true even if not real. >> >> R: True and real. > >Conceptual and convenient. > :-) >> >> So a thought, accessing a >> memory, asserts. >> >> > Continuity is basic to >> > existence. >> >> There is only this very >> instant, the rest is >> stored and/or synthesized >> data. The continuity is >> an appearance, a useful >> one to be sure, but an >> appearance nonetheless. >> >> Right the continuity can be see as an Apollonian arrow or as a >> hologramatic >> process, more Dionysian, although these are weak terms. Hologram >> like a >> crystal sculpture, which can be seen by a person who is standing in >> the front >> or in the back or at a different angle from the back, so that the >> refraction >> of light is different, creating a different spectrum. Like looking >> at God~dess. > >(Bruce:??) ....or the continuity can be >seen as an appearance and >the moment fully lived! >> (Greg, I'm pretty sure said??? ) >> > Look at >> > transient thought, >> > there's nothing there. >> > There's only the one >> > who is looking. >> > This one is mind. >> > (????Bruce?) >> Call it what you will, it >> comes and goes, transient. >> >> >>( Rainbo: right??) Change is a constant. >> >(Bruce for sure: ) No, it's a variable. >Observe a rock, then a >dragonfly. Both change, >the rates vary. In the >moment, nothing changes >and all abides, without >thought's comparative >activity there's no >measurement of change. > GLORIA ASKS: And some of us have rocks in our heads for brains?? Where did the labeling of who said what break down here?? I had to guess. Me, I'm just waiting for the dust to settle on this latest go-round about conscious mind, so we can go on and discuss the really good unconscious stuff. Look here------------> (insert picture of a brain with no memory cells) Ok, how functional can this be? The very ability for you guys to have this stupid ..er, I mean brilliant discussion is wholly dependent on your memory and yet you ( Bruce?) keep wanting to imply we all just appear here moment by moment with no continuity. That is like a person with Alzheimer's reality, not anyone with a normal, everyday sense of reality. I know you guys enjoy making these abstruse distinctions, but Bruce, really... without thought's comparative activity.. there is no nothing...your simplest sensory perception is a learned activity of your brain/mind. Continuity is essential for memory and learning to occur and so what if people also create a sense of identity with that process... you have done the same, whether you care to admit it or not. Its a bit more than just convenient. Geesh... If you don't notice and measure change,,you won't last long enough to know what you are missing, either. Not to mention that I have barely the least idea even who I am talking TO by this point... :) Glo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 1999 Report Share Posted September 28, 1999 On Tue, 28 Sep 1999 00:13:59 -0400 "Gloria Lee" <glee writes: > "Gloria Lee" <glee > > > -- > > >Bruce Morgen <editor > > > > > > > >On Mon, 27 Sep 1999 22:38:18 EDT RainboLily writes: > >> RainboLily > >> > >> In a message dated 09/27/1999 10:25:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > >> editor writes: > >> > >> < > > ivan: Where is the mind apart from > >> > > > a mind object....a thought....a concept. Manifestation is > >> > > > nowhere...as this. > >> > >> R: Mind (as here defined) is observing the thought arise and the > >> thought > >> fall away, it is the awareness of seeing the transient thought. > >> > >> > > > Dan: Somehow the idea that "manifestation is nowhere" > doesn't > >> > > > strike > >> > > > me as consistent with your idea that materiality is > all > >> > that > >> > > > is. > >> > > > But then, consistency isn't all it's cracked up to be > >> > > > anyway. :-) > >> > > > > >> > > Bruce: > >> > > The word "mind" is thought's > >> > > attempt to depict itself > >> > > (*to* itself!) as an ongoing, > >> > > persistent entity rather than > >> > > the series of transient > >> > > events it is. > >> > > > >> > andrew: > >> > I know what you're saying here > >> > and it's right but wrong too. > >> > Or at least there is something > >> > else to be said. > >> > The ongoing persistent mind > >> > does exist. It has a sort of > >> > formal existence which is neither > >> > reality nor unreality but > >> > somewhere in between. > >> > >> R. Mind does exist. Not reality or unreality, reality. > >> > >> It's a concept, a creature > >> of thought. In reality, > >> there are only thoughts, > >> accessing memories, > >> labeling, comparing, > >> measuring, coming and > >> going. Thought accesses > >> memory, discovers there > >> records of other thoughts, > >> and says "mind." > >> > >> > Mind > >> > is true even if not real. > >> > >> R: True and real. > > > >Conceptual and convenient. > > :-) > >> > >> So a thought, accessing a > >> memory, asserts. > >> > >> > Continuity is basic to > >> > existence. > >> > >> There is only this very > >> instant, the rest is > >> stored and/or synthesized > >> data. The continuity is > >> an appearance, a useful > >> one to be sure, but an > >> appearance nonetheless. > >> > >> Right the continuity can be see as an Apollonian arrow or as a > >> hologramatic > >> process, more Dionysian, although these are weak terms. Hologram > >> like a > >> crystal sculpture, which can be seen by a person who is standing > in > >> the front > >> or in the back or at a different angle from the back, so that the > >> refraction > >> of light is different, creating a different spectrum. Like > looking > >> at God~dess. > > > >(Bruce:??) > ...or the continuity can be > >seen as an appearance and > >the moment fully lived! > >> > (Greg, I'm pretty sure said??? ) > >> > Look at > >> > transient thought, > >> > there's nothing there. > >> > There's only the one > >> > who is looking. > >> > This one is mind. > >> > > (????Bruce?) > >> Call it what you will, it > >> comes and goes, transient. > >> >> > >>( Rainbo: right??) Change is a constant. > >> > >(Bruce for sure: ) > No, it's a variable. > >Observe a rock, then a > >dragonfly. Both change, > >the rates vary. In the > >moment, nothing changes > >and all abides, without > >thought's comparative > >activity there's no > >measurement of change. > > > > GLORIA ASKS: > > And some of us have rocks in our heads for brains?? Where did the > labeling > of who said what break down here?? I had to guess. Me, I'm just > waiting for > the dust to settle on this latest go-round about conscious mind, so > we can go on and discuss the really good unconscious stuff. > > Look here------------> (insert picture of a brain with no memory > cells) > > Ok, how functional can this be? Who claimed it could be? Were any recommendations at all proferred? > The very ability for you guys to have this stupid ..er, I mean > brilliant > discussion is wholly dependent on your memory and yet you ( Bruce?) > keep > wanting to imply we all just appear here moment by moment with no > continuity. This is only paradoxical the comparative "mind." > That is like a person with Alzheimer's reality, not anyone with > a normal, everyday sense of reality. I know you guys enjoy making > these > abstruse distinctions, but Bruce, really... without thought's > comparative > activity.. there is no nothing... You think so? See how tenacious thought as "mind" gets about its indispensibility? Don't sweat it, it'll be there as you need it, let it fall away in the absence of any service to render. > your simplest sensory perception is > a learned activity of your brain/mind. No, the simplest *labeling* of a sensory perception is a learned (conditioned) activity. Not knocking thought, not noting its nature. > Continuity is essential for memory and > learning to occur and so what if people also create a sense of > identity with > that process... you have done the same, whether you care to admit > it or not. Of course I have, where have I denied it? You've got the relationship of continuity and memory entirely bassackward, though. > Its a bit more than just convenient. Geesh... It is convenient for the survival of an organism and a species, but it is a just a transient event comprising the momentary contents of consciousness. I'm not denying its utility, I'm simply pointing toward its nature to the best of its remarkable but limited communicative ability. > If you don't notice and > measure change,,you won't last long enough to know what you are > missing, > either. Yes, it's a survival trait and a dandy! > Not to mention that I have barely the least idea even who I > am talking TO by this point... :) ....and I notice it's not unenjoyable. Can you even imagine the perceptual impact of the merest instant of pure awareness in the absence of labeling, of comparison, of measurement, a moment with thought fallen silent in the absence of any useful thing to do, the pure void -- and then the resurgence of thought in joy and wonderment, unable to depict but on fire with discovery? > > Glo > Much love -- Bruce http://come.to/realization http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucemrg.htm http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucsong.htm _ _________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 1999 Report Share Posted September 28, 1999 > > > Mind > > is true even if not real. > > R: True and real. Conceptual and convenient. :-) R: Like God? :-) > > So a thought, accessing a > memory, asserts. > > > Continuity is basic to > > existence. > > There is only this very > instant, the rest is > stored and/or synthesized > data. The continuity is > an appearance, a useful > one to be sure, but an > appearance nonetheless. > > Right the continuity can be see as an Apollonian arrow or as a > hologramatic > process, more Dionysian, although these are weak terms. Hologram > like a > crystal sculpture, which can be seen by a person who is standing in > the front > or in the back or at a different angle from the back, so that the > refraction > of light is different, creating a different spectrum. Like looking > at God~dess. ....or the continuity can be seen as an appearance and the moment fully lived! R: The awareness still sees the continuity of change and the expression of love and beauty, the energetic dance of the divine breathing like the cosmos. So, yes, change varies, and the variance is constant and stepping into the moment one becomes at one-ment with the mo-ment, "The Miracle of Mind-Full-Ness" to change a few words, just a bit, from Thich Nhat Hanh :-) > > > Look at > > transient thought, > > there's nothing there. > > There's only the one > > who is looking. > > This one is mind. > > > Call it what you will, it > comes and goes, transient. > >> > Change is a constant. > No, it's a variable. Observe a rock, then a dragonfly. Both change, the rates vary. In the moment, nothing changes and all abides, without thought's comparative activity there's no measurement of change. R: So, yes, the rate of the change may vary but the change flows on, accelerating or decelerating but consistently constantly in change ever imbuing. If one blows into an all embracing mystic or bliss experience one can see change without comparative thought of change ... the energy still flows ... and one may be in pure awareness ... :-) Love*LIght*Laughter ~ RainboLily ~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 1999 Report Share Posted September 28, 1999 In a message dated 09/28/1999 12:35:54 AM Eastern Daylight Time, glee writes: << Geesh... If you don't notice and measure change,,you won't last long enough to know what you are missing, either. Not to mention that I have barely the least idea even who I am talking TO by this point... :) Glo >> Yeah, but it sure was worth this great morning laugh! How sweet! L*L*L ~ Rainbo ~~~ > glowing with laughter~ thanks eversomuch Glo, great way to wake up~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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