Dharma/Diamond Wavicle

[Guest guest]

HS

 

Re: Dharma/Display

 

Hi Dharma; you wrote to me...

> Dharma <fisher1 Re: Re: Gloria

> asks...

>

> Hi Gene,

>

> A thought just occurred to me... Feel free to kick it

> around.

>

> I wonder if this present argument on the list doesn't have

> a lot in common with the wave/quanta problem. Is energy

> composed of waves or quanta (discrete bits)? There's one

> set of equations to use when you assume it's waves, and

> another set to use if you assume it's quanta. They both

> work, but not at the same time! So you can treat energy

> as waves or quanta, but not both at once. It seems to me

> that if you assume this manifest world is blinking into

> and out of existence at every moment then both views make

> sense. It's like the pictures that make a movie...

> they're so fast they don't seem to be discrete pictures.

>

> I do think, as you said, that "Each instant is a complete

> universe in itself." Everything flashes forth from the

> All and subsides again. But I also think the continuity

> of daily life is real too... quite real enough for all

> practical purposes. Is this a meaningful comparison?

>

> quanta events

> or or

> waves continuity

>

> Love, Dharma

 

Hi Dharma...

 

Funny you should bring this up; this was on my mind as I typed my post

which you replied to.

 

Yes, I take your point and still do not have anything better than is

offered by Vajrayana: DISPLAY.

 

The point of the discussion hinges (IMO) upon the assumption that one event

(as seen to occur) actually 'causes' the next event; this is the 'western

scientific view of _cause and effect_. In this POV, we are slaves to

conditions; thus, it says that to be happy, we must change perceived

conditions, based upon the assumption that we are happy or sad, as

conditions merit.

 

The western-religious POV is similar; it posits that we must change

internal conditions in order to have peace. This is based upon the idea

that there is an inner 'cause and effect' chain, similar to the 'outer'

cause and effect chain of material existence.

 

If we look at one frame from a long movie-film, we can start to imagine

what conditions led up to that scene, and what conditions will thus prevail

after that scene. In most cases, our suppositions would be in error. We

know this, and so look for someone who has 'already seen the movie' and can

tell us all about it. We call such people 'masters'. With their 'help', we

move forward on the assumption that we know _why_ we are as we are, and

thus also, _how_ to change internal conditions to attain a more desirable

state.

 

A more useful approach would be to learn to stop interpreting, to learn to

stop putting meaning onto events. If we consider this, we may see that we

are looking for a _conclusion_, and a way to firmly and safely _decide_

what to do in a given situation. And if we consider that, we may see that

such yearnings for safety and certainty, represent a longing for control

over circumstances, which itself represents a fearfully aversive

relationship with 'what is'.

 

If we posit that 'it is all DISPLAY', we may see the possibility that

perceived events are not interconnected, like inevitable links in one

chain; instead, there is an ongoing experience of Being. The ongoing

experience of Being is what is going on, and _in that going-on_ is

perception of conditions; Being is primary, conditions are secondary. Thus,

involvement with conditions is done by the agency of Being. This being so,

we can know that Being transcends conditions.

 

World-dream/social/familial conditioning states that we are created by

conditions, influenced by conditions, and always under the sway of

conditions; in so stating, what is implied is that we must become masters

of conditions, in order to be free. Vajrayana states that freedom is

'obtained' by understanding the relationship of Being to conditions; that

it is 'only Being' and that all conditions are emanations of Being (karma).

Thus, I can have a 'world of peace', which is my own world, my world of

Being. It is my choice what I do in my world.

 

Again, it is the assumption to conclude, to decide, and to have certainty

and safefy BEFORE relaxing, that is the search and the suffering. It is the

consulting with 'masters' and 'experts' which gives us the illusion of

knowing what comes next and why. It is the world-dream implantation, to

value conditions over Being, to devalue self as compared to

(authority)-other, and to assume that we are _incomplete_, that is the

_cause_ of suffering. By carrying on the search on the basis of this cause,

suffering is perpetuated. Yet, few see this paradox; it is the sufferer who

searches.

 

Once I took a taxi home from the airport, and objected when the driver took

a different route than the one which I was familiar with; I supposed that

the driver was going that way to spend more time on the road, thus to

justify charging me more money. But to my suprise, he actually knew a

shortcut; I saved money. I now use that shortcut myself as I drive my own

vehicle. So my initial objection was in error, and I now have a useful new

way to go.

 

Once I was doing a consult with a person diagnosed with cancer; I made

suggestions which I knew were practical and probably effective. This person

was a medical student, and objected to my suggestions on the basis that he

would not be able to 'know what did what, and thus could not learn the

particular effectiveness of each thing'. He proceeded to do one thing at a

time, in the attempt to track how each thing worked, and died of cancer. I

hope that his notes are well-organized.

 

Similarly, it is possible to chronicle the details of every aspect of the

mechanics of existence, but who is doing that? It is the sufferer, still

suffering, while taking notes, hoping to find certain hidden keys to unlock

certain mysteries. But the whole time, suffering is what is happening, and

suffering is driving that search.

 

The reputed 'short path' of Vajrayana is an effective shortcut; it allows

the clothes of appearances to fall to the floor, as the lover appears. How

convenient! But if one is wearing the 'chastity belt' of western science,

if one is committed to 'testing for repeatability', the lover is kept away,

until that time when the experimenter has accepted, on the basis of

_already-held_ criteria, that it is alright to 'be natural'.

 

Humans, natural all, inhibit themselves from playing in DISPLAY, on the

basis that 'it might be an illusion'. This fear of being deceived and of

coming to harm, results in an unfortunate rigidity, which serves mainly to

increase intensity of suffering, and feelings of isolation. This situation

is compounded by the many 'teachings' which state that paths have

well-known landmarks and guidelines which must be obeyed to 'attain'. The

nondual 'no-attainment' POV is useful to release that particular wasp from

the underpants.

 

Does suffering really imply illusion? If so, perhaps the illusion has less

to do with 'egos' and 'maya' than it does with a very

dysfuntional/traditional way of self-protection. It is the

socially-applauded impulse to protect oneself, to contract and harden and

shrink away, that is that dysfunctional way of self-protection.

 

As a child, I was aware of evil, devouring monsters, and avoided them. Now,

I realize that my adult POV allows re-interpretation of that child-reality;

now, I can relax. There are no evil, devouring monsters; the 'problem' is

the contracted, hyperdefensive state, which itself is based upon

social/familial conditioning that 'something is wrong'; that contracted

state is the body of suffering.

 

Vajrayana says that it is easy to find 'the way out' if one leaves the 'way

in' unlocked and open.

 

Thanks Dharma...

 

 

==Gene Poole==

 

PS: I enjoyed and appreciate your previous reply to me, VIS Vajrayana. Feel

free to supply more of what is relevant to this.

 

==GP==

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/29/99 11:58:14 PM Central Daylight Time, magus

writes:

 

<< Vajrayana says that it is easy to find 'the way out' if one leaves the 'way

in' unlocked and open. >>

 

What you leave out Dharma - is the 'spiritual' (non-explainable, higher-self

sort of stuff). When one embarks on a spiritual path - one is forever

changed. Transformed from the inside out. The View (from Tibetan dzogchen -

i.e. world interpretation, for short) of the individual - is only the outward

manifestation of that profound change.

 

Here is something I found on the web which explains the 'psychology' of

vajrayana. It is - I think - written by a psychology student. So you must

bear that in mind as you read it. <g> I was impressed by the completeness of

the article. He (?) covers the entire vajrayana system - in only a few pages!

There are many different ways to understand vajrayana. From a psychological

perspective - is only one way. For further reading on the psychology of

Buddhism - try "Thoughts Without a Thinker" by Dr. Mark Epstein.

***************************************************************

http://www.ecst.csuchico.edu/~dsantina/tree/ch26.txt

 

Chapter Twenty-Six Psychology, Physiology, and Cosmology

 

In the Vajrayana tradition, psychology, physiology, and cosmology are closely

interrelated. In this chapter I would like to show how this is the case, and

also sketch in general terms the benefits of this interrelationship. Let us

begin by referring once again to the idea of interdependence and

interpenetration.

 

Interdependence is synonymous with relativity, or emptiness, and it is one of

the two pillars of the Vajrayana tradition. In this particular context,

interdependence has a specific meaning--namely, interpenetration. Insofar as

everything depends on everything else for its existence and nature, so

everything holds within itself the seeds, the causes and conditions, of

everything else. Specifically, we can understand this by focusing on the idea

of the interdependence of the parts and the whole. The nature of the whole

depends on the nature of the parts, and the nature of the parts depends on

the nature of the whole.

 

This is the interdependence of parts and whole. Traditionally, we see this

idea elaborated in the Mahayana in parables such as that of the net of Indra.

In this parable, each part of the net depends for its existence and nature on

the other parts, and each small part of the net in a sense contains in

miniature the characteristics of the net as a whole. This idea of

interdependence or interpenetration of parts and whole became very important

in China, too, where it is probably the single most important idea in Hua-yen

philosophy, or the philosophy of totality.

 

The idea of interpenetration is found in the Vajrayana tradition as well,

where we can see it expressed even in the term tantra itself. You may

remember that tantra refers primarily and literally to the idea of the weave

in a piece of cloth or fabric (see Chapter 22). Using the analogy of cloth or

fabric, we can understand the interpenetration of parts and whole when we see

that a small section of fabric reveals the pattern that extends throughout

the whole. The idea of the interpenetration of parts and whole is also

expressed in the Vajrayana in the notion of the interpenetration of

individual beings (who here represent the parts, or microcosms) and the

universe (which represents the whole, or macrocosm). This notion of man and

the universe as microcosm and macrocosm is the first idea I want to consider

 

To understand the dynamic role of psychology, physiology, and cosmology in

the Vajrayana tradition, we need also to recall the second fundamental idea

of the Vajrayana tradition--the idea of the variability of experience. This

is expressed in the experience of Asanga, who saw the Buddha Maitreya first

not at all, then in the form of a diseased dog, and finally in his celestial

and transformed aspect. This idea is also expressed in the fact that the

beings who inhabit the six realms of existence view phenomena differently:

this is the variability of experience relative to the conditioned state of

one's mind. Thus reality is dependent on the conditions of one's mind: an

impure mind will perceive and experience reality in one way, whereas a

transformed and purified mind will experience it in another.

 

It is important to keep both interpenetration and the variability of

experience in mind if we are going to understand the relationship between the

individual and the universe in Vajrayana psychology, physiology, and

cosmology, and if we are going to understand how this relationship functions

dynamically to bring about the transformation that is the goal of Vajrayana

practice.

 

Let us first look specifically at psychology within the Vajrayana tradition.

Thus far I have been at pains to show that the Vajrayana is a natural and

logical development of the Buddhist tradition as a whole, as we find it

embodied in the Theravada and Mahayana. Given this fact, it is not surprising

that Vajrayana psychology takes as its basic building blocks elements which

belong to a system that is central to Buddhist psychology in general.

 

These building blocks are the five aggregates. As in the Theravada and

Mahayana, the five aggregates of form, feeling, perception, volition, and

consciousness function as the basic components of Vajrayana psychology. In

the impure condition of mind--the condition common to all of us before we

have transformed our experience--these five aggregates are associated

respectively with the five afflictions, or defilements, of ignorance, pride,

attachment, envy, and aversion. You will notice the presence of the three

basic afflictions that are causes of the experience of suffering and, in

addition to them, the afflictions of pride and envy.

 

We can also see the five afflictions in relation to the five realms of

existence that are not conducive to liberation. In this context, ignorance

corresponds to the realm of animals, pride to the realm of the gods,

attachment to the realm of the hungry ghosts, envy to the realm of the

demigods, and aversion to the realm of the hell beings. It is interesting to

note that the five afflictions also constitute the causes of birth in the

five unfavorable realms of existence.

 

This is the picture of reality seen from the point of view of the

untransformed mode of

being, the impure vision which is typical of our experience, and which was

typical of

Asanga's experience when he was unable to see Maitreya. Even in the

Perfection of

Wisdom literature, we find statements to the effect that, as a Bodhisattva

progresses

toward Buddhahood, his aggregates become perfectly pure. In the Vajrayana,

this general statement is given positive and specific content so that, in

Vajrayana psychology, the five aggregates are transformed and appear in the

form of the five celestial Buddhas - when the mind has been purified by the

cultivation of wholesome conditions.

 

Thus, in their transformed mode of being, the five aggregates appear as the

five celestial Buddhas: the aggregate of form, when purified, appears in the

form of the Buddha Vairochana; feeling, in the form of Ratnasambhava;

perception, in the form of Amitabha; volition, in the form of Amoghasiddhi;

and consciousness, in the form of Akshobhya.

 

Some of you may have seen these five celestial Buddhas iconographically

portrayed in the mandala, a sacred or magical circle which is a

representation of the purified or transformed universe. What the five

celestial Buddhas represent is the five components of psycho-physical being

in their transformed and purified mode of being. The five celestial Buddhas

together represent the transformation of our impure experience into a

purified, or liberated, mode of being.

 

Incidentally, these five celestial Buddhas are also said to be the Buddhas of

the Five Families: the Buddha, Ratna (or jewel), Padma (or lotus), Karma, and

Vajra families, respectively. These are the symbols that stand for the five

aggregates in their transformed mode of being.

 

Just as, on the untransformed and impure level, the five aggregates are

associated with the five afflictions, so on the transformed and purified

level, the five celestial Buddhas correspond to the five transcendental

knowledges, or wisdoms.

 

The first of these transcendental knowledges is the knowledge of the

Dharmadhatu, which corresponds to the Buddha Vairochana. The knowledge of the

Dharmadhatu is the knowledge of things as they are in reality, the knowledge

of the quintessential nature or character of things. In other words, the

Dharmadhatu is that essential nature of all phenomena which is their

emptiness, their nonduality.

 

Thus the transformed aggregate of form is the Buddha Vairochana, and this

transformation similarly implies a transformation from the affliction of

ignorance to the transcendental knowledge of the true nature of all things,

or emptiness.

 

Second, with the Buddha Ratnasambhava, who is the transformed appearance of

the aggregate of feeling, we have a transformation of the affliction of pride

into the transcendental knowledge of equality. This is the knowledge which

makes all things equal. Here, again, we have a specific echo of something

which occurs in the Perfection of Wisdom literature. In the Heart Sutra, it

is said that the perfection of wisdom makes the unequal equal. In the case of

Ratnasambhava, we have the knowledge which makes things equal. More than

anything else, the knowledge of equality sees no distinction between samsara

and nirvana. The transcendental knowledge of equality which sees no

distinction between samsara and nirvana enables the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas

to operate freely in the world.

 

Third, in the case of the aggregate of perception, which in its transformed

and purified dimension becomes the Buddha Amitabha, we have a corresponding

transformation of the affliction of attachment into the transcendental

knowledge of discrimination. This is the knowledge which is able to see all

things according to their individual characteristics. In a sense, this

corresponds to the knowledge of the Dharmadhatu, which is the knowledge of

the quintessential and universal character of all things--that is, emptiness.

 

As a complement to the knowledge of the Dharmadhatu, we have the knowledge of

discrimination, which is the knowledge of the particular characteristics of

all things.

 

Fourth, in the case of the aggregate of volition, which on the purified level

takes the form of the Buddha Amoghasiddhi, we have a transformation of the

affliction of envy into the transcendental knowledge of accomplishment. This

knowledge is the ability to know with precision the exact situation of all

sentient beings so that they can best be helped to progress toward Buddhahood.

 

Finally, in the case of the aggregate of consciousness, which on the purified

level takes the form of the Buddha Akshobhya, we have a transformation of the

affliction of ill-will into the transcendental knowledge known as the

mirror-like knowledge--the ability to reflect all things in the manner of the

mirror. The mirror reflects precisely whatever is presented to it but remains

itself unchanged, unaffected by the images that it reflects.

 

You can see that there is here a symmetrical arrangement of basic

psycho-physical constituents, with the five aggregates on the impure level

corresponding to the five celestial Buddhas on the purified level. Similarly,

there is a symmetrical arrangement of the five afflictions on the

untransformed, or impure, level corresponding to the five knowledges on the

transformed and purified level.

 

This symmetrical arrangement between an impure and a pure experience is

carried over into the building blocks of matter as well. On the purified

level, the five elements of the world--earth, water, fire, air, and

space--take the forms of the five celestial female deities who are consorts

of the five celestial Buddhas.

 

The element of space, which corresponds to the aggregate of form, is

transformed on the purified level into a female deity who is the consort of

the Buddha Vairochana. The elements of earth, fire, air, and water, which

correspond to the aggregates of feeling, perception, volition, and

consciousness, respectively, are transformed at the purified level into the

female deities who are the consorts of Ratnasambhava, Amitabha, Amoghasiddhi,

and Akshobhya, respectively.

 

In Vajrayana psychology, therefore, we have aggregates, afflictions, and

elements on the ordinary, impure level which are transformed on the purified

level into the five celestial Buddhas, the five transcendental knowledges,

and the five female deities who are consorts of the five celestial Buddhas.

We have two levels of experience that are symmetrical, one level of

experience being typical of an impure form of existence, the other of a

purified form of existence. This is the basic scheme of Vajrayana psychology.

 

In the system of Vajrayana physiology, these five celestial Buddhas, along

with their five consorts, are found within the body of each individual

person. They are situated at five centers of psychic energy, called chakras,

which are found within the body of every person. The five centers of psychic

energy are situated at the top of the head, the throat, the hart, the navel,

and the genitals.

 

At each place, there is one of the five celestial Buddhas with his consort

seated on a lotus throne: the Buddha Vairochana, who is the purified

dimension of the aggregate of form, is at the top of the head; Amitabha, who

is the purified dimension of perception, is at the throat; Akshobhya, who is

the purified dimension of consciousness, is at the heart; Ratnasambhava, who

is the purified dimension of feeling, is at the navel; and Amoghasiddhi, who

is the purified dimension of

volition, is situated at the genitals.

 

There are a number of channels of psychic energy, called nadis, connecting

these centers of psychic energy. Although there are a great number of these

channels, there are three which are very important: the central psychic

channel (avadhuti), which runs directly from the top of the head to the

genitals and which connects the five cakras; and the two psychic channels on

the right and left of the central channel (the rasana and lalana,

respectively). On the level of advanced Vajrayana practice, the practitioner

is able to manipulate and direct the flow of psychic energy--which is none

other than the energy of mind alone--through these psychic channels. This

enables him or her to unite the opposites which are reflected in the

psycho-physical experience of the individual person and in the universe as a

whole, in order to realize within him- or herself in meditation the absolute

union of all opposites, the annihilation of all dualities, which is the goal

of tantric practice.

 

Through this very brief portrayal of Vajrayana physiology, you can see how

the basic building blocks of psycho-physical experience, be they viewed from

the impure level or from the purified level, are reflected in the

physiological makeup of the person. Through achieving the union of opposites

within his psycho-physical experience as an individual person, the Vajrayana

adept is able to bring about the transformation of his vision of the universe

as a whole. He is able to do this because his body is a microcosm of the

universe.

 

In Vajrayana cosmology, the features of the universe as a whole are present

within the psycho-physical experience of each person. Mount Sumeru, the

central

mountain of the universe according to Buddhist cosmology, is situated within

the body of the practitioner, just as the sun and moon, the sacred rivers of

India, and pilgrimage places are found within the body in a microcosmic way.

 

Not only are these features of the universe situated within the body but so,

too, are the primary features of the transformed or purified experience. We

have already seen that the five celestial Buddhas are found within the body

at the five centers of psychic energy. In the same way, we find that the

experience of the individual person is in fact none other than the experience

of the celestial or purified universe, so that the body is in fact the

celestial mansion of the divine Buddhas. In Vajrayana psychology, physiology,

and cosmology, therefore, we find the real meaning of the expression that

'The body is a temple.'

 

It is a temple that contains the celestial Buddhas, who are none other than

the transformed mode of being of the ordinary mode of being of the

psycho-physical

components, or aggregates.

 

You can see how, in the Vajrayana tradition, a close correspondence is drawn

between the ordinary level of experience and the purified level of

experience. This correspondence is established through the idea of microcosm

and macrocosm. Specifically, the Vajrayana supplies a special psychological

and physiological scheme of the elements of experience precisely so that they

can be subjected to the direct and efficient manipulation of the mind. This

scheme employs the centers of psychic energy and the channels through which

psychic energy flows.

 

What I have tried to do in this chapter is show that, in the Vajrayana system

of psychology, physiology, and cosmology, as in Vajrayana myth and symbol, we

do not have an arcane and exotic portrayal of haphazard or arbitrary forms.

Rather, we have a very carefully designed system which accords with the

fundamental principles of the Buddhist path to liberation. What we have is

really just a particularly rich and colorful development of the suggestions

we have seen in the earlier Buddhist traditions, in the psychology of the

Abhidharma and in the Perfection of Wisdom literature.

 

In the Vajrayana tradition, all these suggestions receive a very definite

content. The Vajrayana supplies colorful, bright, and attractive

representations of the various components of psycho-physical experience, and

a description of how their transformation can be achieved through the gradual

purification of one's mode of being.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/30/99 7:17:15 AM Central Daylight Time, janb

writes:

 

<< How many can, just by understanding make the jump from

conditioning to the immaculately white spot without location? >>

 

Not many:) That is why there are thousands of visualization practices

(purpose: the re-visioning of personal reality) within vajrayana. A qualified

teacher can, supposedly - know which visualization to 'prescribe' - based on

a student's abilities and obstacles, etc.

 

A successful spiritual practice produces a deep inner personal

TRANSFORMATION. Affecting all levels of personality and consciousness. That

is the purpose of vajrayana (tantra) - Inner, Personal - Transformation. It

is not an intellectual exercise. Although words can sometimes be used to

explain it.

 

A clear and concise explanation of the Tibetan Buddhist view of

interdependent cause (Emptiness) - can be found in the Dalai Lama's book

"Awakening the Mind: Lightening the Heart: Core Teachings of Tibetan

Buddhism". He explains it better - than anyone else I've found <g>

 

diana

[Guest guest]

On 9/29/99 at 9:54 PM magus wrote:

[...]

>Hi Dharma...

>

>Funny you should bring this up; this was on my mind as I

typed my post

>which you replied to.

>

>Yes, I take your point and still do not have anything better

than is

>offered by Vajrayana: DISPLAY.

>

>The point of the discussion hinges (IMO) upon the assumption

that one event

>(as seen to occur) actually 'causes' the next event; this is

the 'western

>scientific view of _cause and effect_. In this POV, we are

slaves to

>conditions; thus, it says that to be happy, we must change

perceived

>conditions, based upon the assumption that we are happy or

sad, as

>conditions merit.

 

If falling asleep while driving and the subsequent lethal

accident isn't a matter of cause and effect, what is it?

Addiction isn't just limited to "forbidden" stuff. "Need" for

coffee, for warm meals, meat, smoking, if that isn't being

conditioned, then what is it?

>The western-religious POV is similar; it posits that we must

change

>internal conditions in order to have peace. This is based

upon the idea

>that there is an inner 'cause and effect' chain, similar to

the 'outer'

>cause and effect chain of material existence.

 

The "inner chain" is a kind of automatic interpretation

mechanism, based on numbers. How many "bad" experiences were

necessary to justify slavery and racism? How many times does a

child have to be be abused before it will think "nobody can be

trusted?"

>If we look at one frame from a long movie-film, we can start

to imagine

>what conditions led up to that scene, and what conditions

will thus prevail

>after that scene. In most cases, our suppositions would be in

error. We

>know this, and so look for someone who has 'already seen the

movie' and can

>tell us all about it. We call such people 'masters'. With

their 'help', we

>move forward on the assumption that we know _why_ we are as

we are, and

>thus also, _how_ to change internal conditions to attain a

more desirable

>state.

 

The assumption of "the same movie" isn't correct. There are

many movies and interpreting will be different too. The dictum

"if you meet a Buddha on your path, kill him" indicates the

expectation of "help" is another conditioning

>A more useful approach would be to learn to stop

interpreting, to learn to

>stop putting meaning onto events. If we consider this, we may

see that we

>are looking for a _conclusion_, and a way to firmly and

safely _decide_

>what to do in a given situation. And if we consider that, we

may see that

>such yearnings for safety and certainty, represent a longing

for control

>over circumstances, which itself represents a fearfully

aversive

>relationship with 'what is'.

 

Right, no interpreting is giving no meaning to events. But now

the practice. Would non-interpreting the act of smoking free

one from coughing or worse, long cancer? Or would

non-interpreting make one stop smoking? Who would want to long

for control, if all paths are teaching the cessation of

desires?

>If we posit that 'it is all DISPLAY', we may see the

possibility that

>perceived events are not interconnected, like inevitable

links in one

>chain; instead, there is an ongoing experience of Being. The

ongoing

>experience of Being is what is going on, and _in that

going-on_ is

>perception of conditions; Being is primary, conditions are

secondary. Thus,

>involvement with conditions is done by the agency of Being.

This being so,

>we can know that Being transcends conditions.

 

Regarding interconnectivity, there have been experiments with

computers. One could press keys and had to conclude, whether

or not one's pressing was influencing events on the screen.

The majority concluded "yes" but all events were randomly

generated Apparently, cause_and_effect_interpretation is

hardwired, assuming causality where it doesn't exist.

>World-dream/social/familial conditioning states that we are

created by

>conditions, influenced by conditions, and always under the

sway of

>conditions; in so stating, what is implied is that we must

become masters

>of conditions, in order to be free.

 

What else is upbringing, education but conditioning? Sometimes

even the term "brainwashing" is used, referring to certain

sects. But the conclusion to be always under the sway of

conditions is incorrect; quitting the habit of smoking is just

one example. Another point that deserves attention is that

when conditioning is mentioned, it is always the onesided

vision, the "bad" conditioning, like caused by (child) abuse.

Conditioning also implies having been brought up under "ideal"

circumstances causing the "rosy outlook" on things and it can

work out worse than "bad" conditioning, as was the case with a

former friend.. So conditioning could be called emotionally

judging events on the basis of emotions, experienced at

similar events. As emotions will add up, the result is

predictable: strong emotions before an event actually happens.

 

 

Vajrayana states that freedom is

>'obtained' by understanding the relationship of Being to

conditions; that

>it is 'only Being' and that all conditions are emanations of

Being (karma).

>Thus, I can have a 'world of peace', which is my own world,

my world of

>Being. It is my choice what I do in my world.

 

How many can, just by understanding make the jump from

conditioning to the immaculately white spot without location?

>Again, it is the assumption to conclude, to decide, and to

have certainty

>and safefy BEFORE relaxing, that is the search and the

suffering. It is the

>consulting with 'masters' and 'experts' which gives us the

illusion of

>knowing what comes next and why. It is the world-dream

implantation, to

>value conditions over Being, to devalue self as compared to

>(authority)-other, and to assume that we are _incomplete_,

that is the

>_cause_ of suffering. By carrying on the search on the basis

of this cause,

>suffering is perpetuated. Yet, few see this paradox; it is

the sufferer who

>searches.

 

Knowing what comes next and why is a matter of knowing

history: "L'histoire se repete", or history "moving in

fractals" . Of course those who are suffering, are the ones

who are searching: the unquenchable thirst after happiness

could be called "cause". Those who are happy with Maya,

continue until suffering arises and then start seeking.

Considering the "changes and adaptations by the inner fire",

it is safe to say the human interface has to undergo a few

modifications before Being factually is number one.

>Once I took a taxi home from the airport, and objected when

the driver took

>a different route than the one which I was familiar with; I

supposed that

>the driver was going that way to spend more time on the road,

thus to

>justify charging me more money. But to my suprise, he

actually knew a

>shortcut; I saved money. I now use that shortcut myself as I

drive my own

>vehicle. So my initial objection was in error, and I now have

a useful new

>way to go.

 

One of the niceties of K. rising long ago was the ability to

see the "why" of a persons "bad" mood; acting with the

knowledge of the "why" transformed seeming grouches into kind

persons

>Once I was doing a consult with a person diagnosed with

cancer; I made

>suggestions which I knew were practical and probably

effective. This person

>was a medical student, and objected to my suggestions on the

basis that he

>would not be able to 'know what did what, and thus could not

learn the

>particular effectiveness of each thing'. He proceeded to do

one thing at a

>time, in the attempt to track how each thing worked, and died

of cancer. I

>hope that his notes are well-organized.

 

This story could be summarized by "belief is a killer"; the

reverse has happened too, like a certain Dr. Jackson, who,

being diagnosed to die within 6 months, threw the medical

beliefs overboard, radically changed lifestyle and of course,

survived and continued to live for a long time, becoming a MD,

helping many others.

>Similarly, it is possible to chronicle the details of every

aspect of the

>mechanics of existence, but who is doing that? It is the

sufferer, still

>suffering, while taking notes, hoping to find certain hidden

keys to unlock

>certain mysteries. But the whole time, suffering is what is

happening, and

>suffering is driving that search.

 

In the NT it is repeatedly stated that suffering can be a

great redeemer. After all, death of the human body is certain.

Instead of calling the search all-negative, consider the case

of someone giving up everything, searching included. Would

"inner Being" have been "discovered" by "happy" humans? Rather

unlikely...

>The reputed 'short path' of Vajrayana is an effective

shortcut; it allows

>the clothes of appearances to fall to the floor, as the lover

appears. How

>convenient! But if one is wearing the 'chastity belt' of

western science,

>if one is committed to 'testing for repeatability', the lover

is kept away,

>until that time when the experimenter has accepted, on the

basis of

>_already-held_ criteria, that it is alright to 'be natural'.

 

The question is always "a shortcut for whom?" and there are

many shortcuts. Fact is, they worked "best" for the

originators; the shortcut was their natural path. Likewise,

everyone has such a natural path but it isn't recognized, thus

creating followers of existing paths.

>Humans, natural all, inhibit themselves from playing in

DISPLAY, on the

>basis that 'it might be an illusion'. This fear of being

deceived and of

>coming to harm, results in an unfortunate rigidity, which

serves mainly to

>increase intensity of suffering, and feelings of isolation.

This situation

>is compounded by the many 'teachings' which state that paths

have

>well-known landmarks and guidelines which must be obeyed to

'attain'. The

>nondual 'no-attainment' POV is useful to release that

particular wasp from

>the underpants.

 

Isn't fear a conditioning? It is formed by emotionally judging

painful events on the basis of emotions, experienced at

similar events. The emotions add up, becoming fear, surfacing

before a painful event actually is taking place. Regarding the

"landmarks" in Dharma's post on Vajrayana,

[...]

"If OM is the ascent towards universality, then HUM is the

descent of

universality into the depth of the human heart. And just as

the OM precedes

the HUM, and the OM (as the center of the mandala) potentially

contains all

other seed-syllables, and can only be experienced after all

these

seed-syllables have become actualities in the process of

meditation, in the

same way HUM contains the experience of OM and becomes the

living synthesis

of all the five Wisdoms. This is not a knowledge which can be

defined in

words, but a state of mind (as opposed to a mental

'object').1"

[...]

the ascent of OM relates to K. ascending to the crown-chakra,

the "union of Shiva and Shakti" whereas the descending to the

heart is related to K., "returning" to the spiritual heart (to

the right of the axis) as Ramana explained. You do not call

these "events" landmarks ?

 

>Does suffering really imply illusion? If so, perhaps the

illusion has less

>to do with 'egos' and 'maya' than it does with a very

>dysfuntional/traditional way of self-protection. It is the

>socially-applauded impulse to protect oneself, to contract

and harden and

>shrink away, that is that dysfunctional way of

self-protection.

 

What would be a practical definition of illusion? I would

consider if something persistently is present but then,

suddenly disappears, leaving no impression of that former

persistently presence, only memories that won't pop up by

itself, one could call it illusion. In suffering, fear is the

predominant factor, fear for repetition, causing the painful

event(s) to be repeated mentally over and over.

>As a child, I was aware of evil, devouring monsters, and

avoided them. Now,

>I realize that my adult POV allows re-interpretation of that

child-reality;

>now, I can relax. There are no evil, devouring monsters; the

'problem' is

>the contracted, hyperdefensive state, which itself is based

upon

>social/familial conditioning that 'something is wrong'; that

contracted

>state is the body of suffering.

 

The problem usually is fear; fear of pain; fear of repletion

of the experience of pain. Pain is unavoidable in life; one

gets persecuted by it when trying to run from it.

>Vajrayana says that it is easy to find 'the way out' if one

leaves the 'way

>in' unlocked and open.

 

Nowhere to go, nothing to lock or to open. No way out and no

way in.

>Thanks Dharma...

>

>

>==Gene Poole==

>

>PS: I enjoyed and appreciate your previous reply to me, VIS

Vajrayana. Feel

>free to supply more of what is relevant to this.

>

>==GP==

[Guest guest]

On Thu, 30 Sep 1999, Jan Barendrecht wrote:

> The question is always "a shortcut for whom?" and there are

> many shortcuts. Fact is, they worked "best" for the

> originators; the shortcut was their natural path. Likewise,

> everyone has such a natural path but it isn't recognized, thus

> creating followers of existing paths.

 

The traditional answer is for those who cant stand watching suffering,

that they elect to take the bungie jump into freedom.

 

"short" doesnt mean "easy" either. the Vajrayana's way is one of total

immersion, or nothing else. You cant do it halfway, or you are not even

doing it imo. Its like the pressure needed to transform coal into a

diamond. Its intense, and if not done correctly, you wont end up with the

desired product.

 

Vajrayana is for those folks who like to test the water of the pool by

jumping into the deep end first.

 

maitri,

 

--janpa

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/30/99 8:40:24 PM Central Daylight Time, fisher1

writes:

 

<< What did I leave it out of, my little diagram? >>

 

Sorry if I projected a bit of my own stuff <g> I have seen people who

intellectually 'experience' vajrayana - and are experts on it. But

experientially - they are barren. It was not appropriate for me to say that -

since I do not know you or your path. It has been a tough week in many ways:)

 

'My little diagram'? <g>

diana

[Guest guest]

Gene, Thanks so much for your so insightful reply... Saving this one for

future use.

 

>> Hi Gene,

>>

>> A thought just occurred to me... Feel free to kick it

>> around.

>>

>> I wonder if this present argument on the list doesn't have

>> a lot in common with the wave/quanta problem. Is energy

>> composed of waves or quanta (discrete bits)? There's one

>> set of equations to use when you assume it's waves, and

>> another set to use if you assume it's quanta. They both

>snip<

[Guest guest]

Hi Diana,

>>Gene:

>> Vajrayana says that it is easy to find 'the way out' if one leaves the 'way

>> in' unlocked and open.

>Diana:

>What you leave out Dharma - is the 'spiritual' (non-explainable, higher-self

>sort of stuff).

 

What did I leave it out of, my little diagram?

> When one embarks on a spiritual path - one is forever

>changed. Transformed from the inside out. The View (from Tibetan dzogchen -

>i.e. world interpretation, for short) of the individual - is only the outward

>manifestation of that profound change.

>

>Here is something I found on the web which explains the 'psychology' of

>vajrayana. It is - I think - written by a psychology student. So you must

>bear that in mind as you read it. <g> I was impressed by the completeness of

>the article. He (?) covers the entire vajrayana system - in only a few pages!

 

I gotta tell you I prefer Govinda, even if he does use more words.

 

Poor student has a problem when he discusses this matter using terms like:

"the fact that the beings who inhabit the six realms of existence view

phenomena differently..."

>You can see how, in the Vajrayana tradition, a close correspondence is drawn

>between the ordinary level of experience and the purified level of

>experience. This correspondence is established through the idea of microcosm

>and macrocosm.

 

quanta events purified (macrocosm)

or or or

waves continuity ordinary (microcosm)

 

Is that better?

 

Love,

Dharma