Guest guest Posted October 7, 1999 Report Share Posted October 7, 1999 HS Re: ZenBob/The Darren issue Hi ZenBob... thanks for your reply. My comments below: > ZEN2WRK Re: Re: > Darren/conditional purity > > In a message dated 10/6/99 12:12:35 PM Pacific Daylight > Time, magus writes: > > << It would appear that the advocate of purity, by living > in and exampling submissiveness, has the agenda of making > lust and other defined-as-undesirable aspects of human experience indeed > overwhelmingly powerful; indeed, the agenda seems to be to trigger > latent conditioned shame and fear, while at the same time offering 'helpful > tips' to overcome such overwhelmingly powerful forces, by means of > submission. > > Bottom line: I do not submit. > > Respectfully, > > ==Gene Poole== >> Dear Gene: > > I am so glad that I was too busy to write a detailed > follow up to Darren. Your response is so much better > than mine would have been. It is better, because you > identify every fallacy, power struggle and are courageous > enough to label each for what they are, despite the risk > of reprove by others. Gene: Thanks. I actually find it a tiresome task, to show up like this amongst the sheep, to point out a wolf, if you can forgive my metaphor. I have little enthusiasm for what may be embarassing to another; on the other hand, it is encumbent upon me to parse-out weak and ineffectual predators. > For what it is worth, I fully agree with each and every > comment. I also believe that Darren is insincere, > untruthful and manipulative with interests only in > creating disharmony, confusion and somehow, bizarrely, > attempting to lure weak or troubled members from several > lists onto his own strange and peculiar Salvation Show of > Sin, Repression, Fascism and false woe. Gene: Yes. I think the missing element is that 'misery loves company'. To discover that one is ill... and to at the same time, refuse to relenquish personality... is a sure ticket to hell. If instead, one attempts to recruit others into similar personality alignment, in the imagining that there is strength in numbers, that somehow consensus will spread the impact of what is actually an idiosyncratic disorder... that one has little hope. Making a disease popular, does not change the nature of the disease. > Perhaps I am in error. It has happened once this year. > However, my batting average for sensing insincerity and BS > is pretty well fine tuned at this age in my life and the > meter is pegging up there in the red danger zone, between > "flaky" and "wacko." Gene: I hear you, ZenBob. It is unfortunate that instead of actually asking for help, Darren has _challenged_ anyone who has alignments dissimilar to his own. I think what we are seeing here, is the unfoldment of the spiritual aspect of what is usually defined as merely a physical disorder. In itself, it is troublesome, but those who carefully watch what goes down, may learn something quite valuable. > Strong words, but I am a bit out of sorts by the manner in > which Darren has tossed my comments all over a variety of > lists, trashed Dharma for her patience and detailed > advice, taken a pose of "dying modesty and vulnerability" > in order to criticize others without there being merit to > the criticism, and then further insulted my intelligence > and that of the list membership by trying to "Guru away" > other members for "help and counseling." This is nothing > more than corrupt seduction. If he has any character, > then he can communicate directly to each of us on the > list and not play games with "privatepublic" messages > and "folded hands" posturing for humility. Gene: Yes, well-stated. It is known that a submissive posture is actually an enabler of certain diseases which the immune system would otherwise keep in check. It is interesting that one branch of idealism leads to self-destruction, while another branch of idealism leads to self-realization; the two should never be confused. Further, one needs to understand the difference between _submission_ and _surrender_. Surrender is a truely defenseless posture; submission is in itself, a form of defense, designed to stop the attack of an aggressor. Surrender is not a situational expedient, it is a lifetime of work. Submission on the other hand, is used to 'get by' certain roadblocks on the way to the manifestation of ideal conditions. It is the condition-dependent person who is willing to make (human) sacrifices in the name of spiritual progress. > Humble is as humble does. The Praying Mantis is the other > creature that I recall as wandering about in the same > humble pose...and that was no gentle bug. > > For the record, I do not submit, either! > > Blessings, > > Zenbob Gene: Thanks. Please keep us updated on how all of this is progressing. I wish only the best for Darren; I wish for him, the abolition of all illusion. ==Gene Poole== Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 1999 Report Share Posted October 8, 1999 ==Gene Poole== wrote: > In itself, it is troublesome, but those who carefully watch what goes down, > may learn something quite valuable. Thank you, Antoine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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