Guest guest Posted October 7, 1999 Report Share Posted October 7, 1999 Great post Col ~ ... i would say the same would apply to any and everything that is happening around us, what do we project onto it, (sorry Bob, but here even the projection onto others, however much we may be "right" or have the "agreement" of others to support our perspective) is still a manifestation of our division rather than our inclusion and nondualism or nondelusion, illusion, divisive, incisive or inclusive, ... so, that my projection is *mine* and is not of a nondual or loving state ... OMG, you mean if we're on earth we're human? Ah, despair, not an EO, nor a nonEO, nor yet a few more mentally game engaging debates :-) and perhaps knowing there is always another side, and seeking what is integrity, as in do we have truth or illusion, have we been told, "oh, yeah, and by the way in my seeking to look good in your eyes, i lied to you? And if one lies, than at a cost to whom is the truth sought or is the accepted gospel taken verbatim? (this has nada to do with you Bob, PAX). ~~~ still at work *g* ~~~ ~~~ and light dancing ~~~ ... here ... in now ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 1999 Report Share Posted October 7, 1999 In a message dated 10/7/99 7:09:51 PM Central Daylight Time, colette writes: << No need to take sides. There is NO side. We are all one! All of Us is One Energy dancing as the many ~ >> I also see no need to take sides. I also see One Energy. But if I see a freight train about to run me down - I step off the tracks. If a Hilter appears - I will take evasive action. I am reminded of the Taoist master who was teaching martial arts. A couple of his more rowdy students asked him - 'So what would you do if you ran into two big guys on the street?' And the master showed them how to defend themselves. And then the students said - 'Yeah - but what about if there were 30 big guys coming at you down the street?' The master smiled and said - 'Then I would have taken - another street.' You have to see correctly - to take Right Action. This may be Dualistic thinking. We live in a Dualistic world. Sometimes - you just have to take another street <g> Samsara is Nirvana. diana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 1999 Report Share Posted October 7, 1999 In a message dated 10/07/1999 8:09:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time, colette writes: << Colette T <colette Amen Rainbow! No need to take sides. There is NO side. We are all one! All of Us is One Energy dancing as the many ~ Loves ya, Col >> LOL, my *one* had to delete 811 other *ones* emails today at work *g* during the last half an hour, forwarded 34 to others to deal with, responded to 12 (with 3 lines or less), and left 23 in my email box for tomorrow, that was today's mail, I can't believe I actually read mail here when I get home, LOL! BUT! It beats the phone and is faster. But like the phone requires attention or the boxes overload, thank God for the delete buttons and brevity *g* Love to ALL, ~ Rainbo ~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 1999 Report Share Posted October 7, 1999 In a message dated 10/07/1999 9:19:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Xena10000 writes: << I also see no need to take sides. I also see One Energy. But if I see a freight train about to run me down - I step off the tracks. If a Hilter appears - I will take evasive action. >> You know Dianna, there is a monument in Holland to my grandfather who did that, but I have often wondered how much the collective held responsibility for the creation and submission to such a figure? Jung postulated a collective unconscious but almost by default then there is a collective consciousness ... and perhaps it is here that we are responsible for sending loving energies... i don't know ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 1999 Report Share Posted October 7, 1999 In a message dated 10/7/99 8:47:53 PM Central Daylight Time, RainboLily writes: << but I have often wondered how much the collective held responsibility for the creation and submission to such a figure? >> Who knows? I see Dependent Cause (a basic Buddhist philosophy) at work here. Like one domino - hitting a stack of dominos - impacting each other as they fall. Hitler was the end result - of a chain of events going back at least a century in Germany. I have heard people say (mostly so-called New Age types <g>) - that Hitler must have been something 'called up' by the collective unconsciousness. Therefore - the Jews - and others - got what they 'asked' for. I do not agree. First Noble Truth - Life is Suffering. It is up to each individual - what to do with it. Samsara is not a 'punishment'. Just an inevitability. Samara happens. And we all have to deal with it - diana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 1999 Report Share Posted October 7, 1999 Hi everyone. I'm sharing here a post by John a friend of mine from the Ken Wilber Forum ~ I resonate to its basic premise ~ ~*~ Re: Re: the battle between Good and Evil This message: Re: Re: the battle between Good and Evil Posted by: John D 02:21:52 AM 10/07/99: Hi, For awhile now I've seen good and evil as simply polarities of perception. My own peak mystical experiences have been without concept, without even polarity save for the polar architectonics which hold the universe together. In other words, there was nothing of "good" or "evil" there, yet an ultimate Goodness which could be said to be God. What we perceive as both good and evil co-exist within that ultimate Goodness as a polarity of self-creation. This means that as we, divine mind involved in biological/terrestrial manifestation, are caught up in a self-determined process of developing what we are, and that the battle of good and evil is essentially the process that goes on within a polarized Self seeking to find reconciliation to its own torn psyche. If there are indeed any flaws in the Creation, they are co-created and maintained by that which has estranged from God into its own idea of itself. This estrangement is in itself not an "evil" thing, but purposeful in the development of an individualized psyche, yet it produces "evil" in its own failure to recognize itself as divine, and then counters that with "good" as a means of tipping the scales back to center. This scale-tipping goes on forever until one realizes the error in it and simply lets go, allowing the psyche to return to its naturally centered state in the embrace of the Tao. Peak mystical experience, for me, has never had and associative connection to psyche battle; there was no Armageddon, no Kurukshetra (although these can easily be seen as symbols for the inner war of the psyche to regain an undivided sensibility). What i was revealing in my post above had nothing to do with Adi Da or the OT or any other earthly manifestations other than the division of self into light and shadow. All else is simply a projection of what is going on within. What I'm suggesting is that if we really want to get at the root of good and evil, we need to move all the associations out of the way and get to the absolute core of why we are divided. This, I believe, is simply a matter of how we interface with our biological medium. There are a great many "flaws" that we inherit simply by being born human, but they are also perpetuated by the way that we go about creating ourselves in life. One of the best ways to go on perpetuating them is to continuing to perceive them as flaws and be entertaining notions that they are created by something outside of ourselves. What I choose to see instead of a flaw is a challenge to my indwelling spirit to overcome the misperceptions of its own self-creation. The God of the Living is a projection based upon our alignment with an undivided state of being and, conversely, the God of the Dead is a projection based upon our alignment with a divided state. All of what we are or appear to be is based upon the manner in which we are divided within. This is why I say forget the battle and dive into the process of reconciliation. Best wishes, John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 1999 Report Share Posted October 7, 1999 In a message dated 10/7/99 8:47:53 PM Central Daylight Time, RainboLily writes: << . and perhaps it is here that we are responsible for sending loving energies... i don't know ... >> I think that radiating as much Compassion, Love, and Wisdom as possible - makes a profound difference. Not only in our own lives - but to all who have contact with us. And with the 'net - one person can have a lot more impact than ever before <g> I say - never underestimate the power of the individual - and Right Actions. I think every little bit - does count. diana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 1999 Report Share Posted October 7, 1999 In a message dated 10/07/1999 10:51:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Xena10000 writes: << First Noble Truth - Life is Suffering. It is up to each individual - what to do with it. Samsara is not a 'punishment'. Just an inevitability. Samara happens. And we all have to deal with it - diana >> Life is beautiful :-) Really it is ... and i do dearly hope i have not sparked a debate on the aforementioned horror story of our century.. someone said, i think Greg, "life is a story" i love that, have walked with that one for days while working ... is a very sweet perspective... .... p.s. on the email thang, it is to explain why i don't always read the emails, there are just too many and it isn't that i don't love *you* or the other *one* it is that i love this *one* too ... so, scuse da additional emails *g* but i wanted to respond to this *one* reflection of dianna :-) Love*Light*Laughter, ~ Rainbo ~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 1999 Report Share Posted October 7, 1999 Amen Rainbow! No need to take sides. There is NO side. We are all one! All of Us is One Energy dancing as the many ~ Loves ya, Col ~*~ RainboLily wrote: > RainboLily > > Great post Col ~ > > .. i would say the same would apply to any and everything that is happening around us, what do we project onto it, (sorry Bob, but here even the projection onto others, however much we may be "right" or have the "agreement" of others to support our perspective) is still a manifestation of our division rather than our inclusion and nondualism or nondelusion, illusion, divisive, incisive or inclusive, ... so, that my projection is *mine* and is not of a nondual or loving state ... OMG, you mean if we're on earth we're human? > > Ah, despair, not an EO, nor a nonEO, nor yet a few more mentally game engaging debates :-) and perhaps knowing there is always another side, and seeking what is integrity, as in do we have truth or illusion, have we been told, "oh, yeah, and by the way in my seeking to look good in your eyes, i lied to you? And if one lies, than at a cost to whom is the truth sought or is the accepted gospel taken verbatim? (this has nada to do with you Bob, PAX). > > ~~~ still at work *g* ~~~ > ~~~ and light dancing ~~~ ... here ... in now ... > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 1999 Report Share Posted October 8, 1999 Hello Diana, Talking about martial arts always wakes up a warm flame within my body, having practiced, in a form of kung fu, for so many hours at the strain of the muscles listening in awareness to the moment. It's a nice memory, thank you for bringing it back. Here is a quote i like from a site i found on Jerry web site, it rings an answer to the question of the student to the Taoist teacher you came to know. Who knows, maybe you will like it. "When an enemy tries to fight with me, the universe itself, he has to break the harmony of the universe. Hence at the moment he has the mind to fight with me, he is already defeated. There exists no measure of time -- fast or slow. " >From http://www.sentient.org/amber/uyeshiba.htm Antoine ________________________ > I am reminded of the Taoist master who was teaching martial arts. A couple of > his more rowdy students asked him - 'So what would you do if you ran into two > big guys on the street?' > diana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 1999 Report Share Posted October 8, 1999 In a message dated 10/07/1999 10:55:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Xena10000 writes: << I think that radiating as much Compassion, Love, and Wisdom as possible - makes a profound difference. Not only in our own lives - but to all who have contact with us. And with the 'net - one person can have a lot more impact than ever before <g> I say - never underestimate the power of the individual - and Right Actions. I think every little bit - does count. diana >> agree :-) , not sure the Net is necessary although i do agree it has an incredible impact on civilisation, but one individual radiating love and truth does have a profound impact on their environment. We've a young Tibetan monk living close to here and when he walks into a room he radiates peace, ... i don't think anyone has to be sensitive to the subtle realms to see it ... And, yes, think every little bit does count, each time our actions speak love, they spread, words can be easy, it is in doing that we show our love, Love, real love is a verb. Hoping your day is full of Love*Light*Laughter, All of you :-) ~ Rainbo ~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 1999 Report Share Posted October 8, 1999 In a message dated 10/7/99 11:00:36 PM Central Daylight Time, carrea writes: << "When an enemy tries to fight with me, the universe itself, he has to break the harmony of the universe. Hence at the moment he has the mind to fight with me, he is already defeated. There exists no measure of time -- fast or slow. " >> Thank Antoine! diana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 1999 Report Share Posted October 8, 1999 In a message dated 10/7/99 6:19:16 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Xena10000 writes: << The master smiled and said - 'Then I would have taken - another street.' You have to see correctly - to take Right Action. This may be Dualistic thinking. We live in a Dualistic world. Sometimes - you just have to take another street <g> Samsara is Nirvana. >> The sound of a chime being struck. There is such a contrast between simple aphorisms, which may at first seem profound, and actual deeper levels of truth, which contain layers and must be understood a layer at a time. Sure, we are all "light" too, but I use a candle when the power goes out. We are all perfect, but if I get a bone spur, I have it removed. Sure, we are all "God" but I don't create solar systems just yet. Sure, we are all one, but went my mortgage payment is due, somehow it's just me handling the bill. What we idealize and strive to be are not the same as what and where we are. Non dualistic thinking is there to remind us that the world and its limitations are not the entire or necessarily the enduring part of reality. But, the world has real rocks, and even though non-duality teaches that the rock and I are one energy, if the rock falls on my head, the shared unity of rock-zenbob will sure hurt. Can anyone explain this all away? No. So, slogans of unity are good to remind us to strive to achieve harmony and grace. I am deeply in favor of that. But illusions, false intent or actions that injure are still things that we must deal with in some way. Ignoring it and embracing it does not improve or unify it. If the cougar takes up living in your back yard, do you embrace it? It might work...but having worked with Cheetahs, Lions, Bears, wolves, and ocelots myself, one would either be a lot braver than I am to do so, or much more foolish. Blessings Love, Zenbob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 1999 Report Share Posted October 8, 1999 In a message dated 10/8/99 1:48:06 PM Pacific Daylight Time, mirror writes: << Are you positive? Who created the solar system that contains Zenbob? Mira >> Why you did, darling! Blessings, Love, Zenbob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 1999 Report Share Posted October 8, 1999 Zenbob: > Sure, we are all "God" but I > don't create solar systems just yet. Are you positive? Who created the solar system that contains Zenbob? Mira Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 1999 Report Share Posted October 8, 1999 Zenbob: > Sure, we are all "God" but I > don't create solar systems just yet. Are you positive? Who created the solar system that contains Zenbob? Mira geovani:...hei!!!....i can't pinpoint what....but Mira....your statement has a weird, powerfull awesom something tha made my whole being ...sort of....spin...spin...spin...spin...spin...spin... Something like being in and out and without being within...kind of....sortofa....smell of thruth. ....i just read it again....and still...deliciously lost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 1999 Report Share Posted October 8, 1999 On 10/8/99 at 4:33 PM ZEN2WRK wrote: >ZEN2WRK > >In a message dated 10/7/99 6:19:16 PM Pacific Daylight Time, >Xena10000 writes: > ><< > The master smiled and said - 'Then I would have taken - another street.' > > You have to see correctly - to take Right Action. This may be Dualistic > thinking. We live in a Dualistic world. Sometimes - you just have to take > another street <g> Samsara is Nirvana. > >> >The sound of a chime being struck. There is such a contrast between simple >aphorisms, which may at first seem profound, and actual deeper levels of >truth, which contain layers and must be understood a layer at a time. Sure, >we are all "light" too, but I use a candle when the power goes out. We are >all perfect, >but if I get a bone spur, I have it removed. Sure, we are all "God" but I >don't create solar systems just yet. Sure, we are all one, but went my >mortgage payment is due, somehow it's just me handling the bill. One of those aphorisms is to compare Maya with a dream. On waking up, the dream isn't real anymore. But in a lucid dream, objects can be manipulated at will. However, Maya never becomes a lucid dream where one can manipulate objects at will; only unconfirmed rumors will mention that possibility. No one can provide earth with an extra sun. > >What we idealize and strive to be are not the same as what and where we are. >Non dualistic thinking is there to remind us that the world and its >limitations are not the entire or necessarily the enduring part of reality. >But, the world has real rocks, and even though non-duality teaches that the >rock and I are one energy, if the rock falls on my head, the shared unity of >rock-zenbob will sure hurt. Manifestations arise with a certain set of properties; one is the law of gravity. Nonduality won't change that. Even if one can no longer feel pain, the body still would be wounded, reacting accordingly. > >Can anyone explain this all away? No. So, slogans of unity are good to >remind us to strive to achieve harmony and grace. I am deeply in favor of >that. But illusions, false intent or actions that injure are still things >that we must deal with in some way. Ignoring it and embracing it does not >improve or unify it. If the cougar takes up living in your back yard, do you >embrace it? It might work...but having worked with Cheetahs, Lions, Bears, >wolves, and ocelots myself, one would either be a lot braver than I am to do >so, or much more foolish. > >Blessings >Love, > >Zenbob One's birthright could be called the right to regain the seemingly lost unconditional happiness. This happiness is revealed when thoughts, ideas, desires and actions based on "I am the body", "I am the doer", the "I", will no longer arise. Phantasies about supernatural side-effects of this realization is a side-effect of not yet having realized this simple truth. So instead of thinking about unity, love, harmony etc., with associated phantasies of petting lions, tigers and leopards and creating black holes, the ideas/feelings/thoughts of separateness, hate, disharmony etc. will no longer arise because the "I" no longer arises and that is what constitutes Peace beyond understanding. Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 1999 Report Share Posted October 9, 1999 In a message dated 10/8/99 6:11:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time, janb writes: << So instead of thinking about unity, love, harmony etc., with associated phantasies of petting lions, tigers and leopards and creating black holes, the ideas/feelings/thoughts of separateness, hate, disharmony etc. will no longer arise because the "I" no longer arises and that is what constitutes Peace beyond understanding. Jan >> Excuse me, but these are not phantasies. I live in the country and wild animals in my back yard are quite real. I have also, as I said, WORKED with the animals I mentioned. Petting them was not a fantasy...I have done so. I did so using skill, caution, regard, respect and intelligence, not using some form of wishful thinking or unreasoning fear. That is the point that I am making. And if a cougar shows up in your back yard...in real life...or its equivalent, then one has to deal with it in some way. And no, simply ignoring it does not accord one safety or protection for ones family and pets. Do not airily dismiss what I wrote with simplistic syllogisms and unflattering remarks about my "Phantasies of petting lions." I have petted lions. I have trained wolves, lynx, ocelot, and worked with cheetahs, bears and other "wild animals." I have mended wings on hawks. Hey, I love all kinds of critters...I help goats kid, train an Arabian Filly, and have raised pigs, cattle and sheep. None of these are simply illusory ideas. I have seen coyote, cougar, fox, lynx and badgers on my property. So the example is not some airy scary maybe...it is based on reality. Many people living in the lush near urban lands of California are quite shocked to find how close the wild actually is, and how often some big cat or predator will wind up in some one's back yard. Oh and I've raised Llama and Emu, too, but I gave the birds to a neighbor who wanted a petting zoo for her grandchild and I sold the Llama to a nice couple who needed better protection for their goats than the protection that I have. Actually, the Arab Filly is better protection than the Llama in many ways, but she does eat more! Blessings Zenbob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 1999 Report Share Posted October 9, 1999 Zenbob, I didn't doubt your work with animals; but that is different from the phantasies of several people once met, who, under the influence of "paradise" stories, were actually thinking the EO can pet any wild animal just like that. There are several stories about Ramana, the wild animals visiting the ashram and the ones living there; there is also the story how Ramana once was attacked and wounded by birds of prey who were defending territory. Nearing a big animal in the wild without the proper training, knowledge and experience isn't wise and for a trained guard dog, an intruder is just an intruder. Jan On 10/9/99 at 3:44 AM ZEN2WRK wrote: >ZEN2WRK > >In a message dated 10/8/99 6:11:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time, janb >writes: > ><< So instead of thinking about unity, love, > harmony etc., with associated phantasies of petting lions, > tigers and leopards and creating black holes, the > ideas/feelings/thoughts of separateness, hate, disharmony etc. > will no longer arise because the "I" no longer arises and that > is what constitutes Peace beyond understanding. > > Jan >> >Excuse me, but these are not phantasies. I live in the country and wild >animals in my back yard are quite real. I have also, as I said, WORKED with >the animals I mentioned. Petting them was not a fantasy...I have done so. I >did so using skill, caution, regard, respect and intelligence, not using some >form of wishful thinking or unreasoning fear. That is the point that I am >making. And if a cougar shows up in your back yard...in real life...or its >equivalent, then one has to deal with it in some way. And no, simply >ignoring it does not accord one safety or protection for ones family and >pets. Do not airily dismiss what I wrote with simplistic syllogisms and >unflattering remarks about my "Phantasies of petting lions." I have petted >lions. I have trained wolves, lynx, ocelot, and worked with cheetahs, bears >and other "wild animals." I have mended wings on hawks. Hey, I love all >kinds of critters...I help goats kid, train an Arabian Filly, and have raised >pigs, cattle and sheep. None of these are simply illusory ideas. I have >seen coyote, cougar, fox, lynx and badgers on my property. So the example is >not some airy scary maybe...it is based on reality. Many people living in >the lush near urban lands of California are quite shocked to find how close >the wild actually is, and how often some big cat or predator will wind up in >some one's back yard. > >Oh and I've raised Llama and Emu, too, but I gave the birds to a neighbor who >wanted a petting zoo for her grandchild and I sold the Llama to a nice couple >who needed better protection for their goats than the protection that I have. > Actually, the Arab Filly is better protection than the Llama in many ways, >but she does eat more! > >Blessings > >Zenbob > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Choose from a wide selection of high-quality newsletters at ONElist. >For details on ONElist's PROS&PUNDITS newsletters, click below. ><a href=" http://clickme./ad/prospun2 ">Click Here</a> > >----------------------------- ---------- >All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Nowhere is Now Here. All paths, places, and sights and perceptions exist only in the Space of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Here. You are not "in" the now. You Are the Now! Here is Home. Home is where True Rest Is. Home is where the Heart Is. It is the Seer resting in the Seer, the Self-Nature, the Buddha Nature, or call it what you will. The Radical Truth is Radiance of Awareness. It is both the path, process, and the goal. It is Finality of Being without any support. It is Total Independence and Ever Present. The Truth of the Self needs no psychological or spiritual crutches. It needs no philosophy, no religion, no explanation, no teaching, and no teacher, and yet It is always their support. A true devotee relishes in the Truth. The Truth of Self-Knowledge which is Pure Intelligence. Welcome all to a. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 29, 1999 Report Share Posted October 29, 1999 In a message dated 10/29/99 8:09:45 PM Central Daylight Time, RainboLily writes: << Life is beautiful :-) Really it is ... >> Agreed!!! Samsara and Nirvana are One - thanks diana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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