Guest guest Posted October 26, 1999 Report Share Posted October 26, 1999 > Dear Jim, > > Ah, where does it come from? Carl Jung became fascinated by the very > question you ask. In analyzing over 80,000 dreams of the many patients he > saw in his career, symbols would occur such as mandalas, or the same ones > used in alchemical writings, or in ancient cultures. Mostly these patients > had no direct knowledge of their previous use in other contexts. Jung > proposed the collective unconscious to account for this shared awareness, > and recurring symbols of mankind. Buddhists speak of the "storehouse" of > consciousness containing seeds which the right conditions bring into being. > > Its a fascinating question to explore. > Glo > Dear Glo, I have a passing familiarity with Jung but I haven't heard anything about a storehouse of seeds, what would be an example of one of these seeds? I love seeds, they're great for analogy and tasty when toasted. As for the collective unconcious, is it assumed that it dwells within us? and if so would dna have anything to do with it? Full of questions, Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 1999 Report Share Posted October 26, 1999 As above so below, as below so above As without so within, as within so without The double helix of DNA has a remarkable resemblence to the traditional image of Sushumna nadi interwined with Ida (on its left) and Pingala (on its right). It is also represented in the traditional medical symbol of the staff with two coiled snakes (shades of kundalini!!!). The collective unconsciousness is the "memory" of who/what we really are, and when you dig beneath the surface of any cultural or religious tradition you will come to this archetypal symbols. Jung was building on the work that was done by ancient mystics in the area of dreams and understanding the true nature of the human psyche. It is said that the rishis were able to penetrate the body/mind/spirit complex when meditating and determined that the body is indeed the map of the soul. OM Shanti Michele Jim Scroggins wrote: > > Jim Scroggins <Jimshead > > > Dear Jim, > > > > Ah, where does it come from? Carl Jung became fascinated by the very > > question you ask. In analyzing over 80,000 dreams of the many patients he > > saw in his career, symbols would occur such as mandalas, or the same ones > > used in alchemical writings, or in ancient cultures. Mostly these patients > > had no direct knowledge of their previous use in other contexts. Jung > > proposed the collective unconscious to account for this shared awareness, > > and recurring symbols of mankind. Buddhists speak of the "storehouse" of > > consciousness containing seeds which the right conditions bring into being. > > > > Its a fascinating question to explore. > > Glo > > > > Dear Glo, > > I have a passing familiarity with Jung but I haven't heard anything > about a > storehouse of seeds, what would be an example of one of these seeds? I > love > seeds, they're great for analogy and tasty when toasted. As for the > collective > unconcious, is it assumed that it dwells within us? and if so would dna > have > anything to do with it? > > Full of questions, > Jim > > > All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 1999 Report Share Posted October 26, 1999 michele <michele Michelle wrote: >>The collective unconsciousness is the "memory" of who/what we really >are, and when you dig beneath the surface of any cultural or religious >tradition you will come to this archetypal symbols. Jung was building >on the work that was done by ancient mystics in the area of dreams and >understanding the true nature of the human psyche. Glo: Michelle, that is one of the best and most succinct explanations I have seen for such a vast topic. >From this and your other posts, you appear to be a "storehouse" of knowledge yourself! So glad you have joined us and welcome! > >Jim Scroggins wrote: >> >> >> Dear Glo, >> >> I have a passing familiarity with Jung but I haven't heard anything >> about a >> storehouse of seeds, what would be an example of one of these seeds? I >> love >> seeds, they're great for analogy and tasty when toasted. Glo: Mmmm, yes tasty and nutty! Briefly, viewing consciousness as like a storehouse of seeds, Buddhist practices like meditation, etc are compared to 'cultivating' with the right conditions to 'grow' compassion and peace..the seeds of which exist in everyone in potential. What conscious practices enable us to grow and nurture the seed of joy? For nothing exists alone, whatever comes into being must inter-be with conditions of cause and effect. (Those who believe in reincarnation might extend that chain of karma to include effects of other lives.) Thich Nhat Hanh has written extensively using simple analogies like these to illustrate his teachings. "Being Peace" is a good book. Similarly, as Jesus said, the fruits of the spirit are love, joy, peace etc. As for the >> collective >> unconcious, is it assumed that it dwells within us? Glo: It is assumed to exist due to the effects which ARE observable. Just as the wind is assumed (tho invisible itself) to be blowing when the leaves move. Not only great minds think alike, When superficial differences of cultural expression are examined carefully, humans are far more alike than different. This is what I love about the work of Jung and Joseph Campbell. They both have an eye for discovering the deeper oneness, seeing how our common humanness unites us all no matter the time and place. and if so would dna >> have >> anything to do with it? As Michelle answered already, and of course, most simply - this creates a human being, not a chimp. The complexities of our DNA and the chemical codes are fascinating, what can one say about all this? When you consider all that goes on without any need of our conscious awareness, it puts our conscious mind in perspective. >> >> Full of questions, >> Jim >> Me too. Glo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 1999 Report Share Posted October 27, 1999 Gloria Lee wrote: > > "Gloria Lee" <glee > > > michele <michele > > Michelle wrote: > > >>The collective unconsciousness is the "memory" of who/what we really > >are, and when you dig beneath the surface of any cultural or religious > >tradition you will come to this archetypal symbols. Jung was building > >on the work that was done by ancient mystics in the area of dreams and > >understanding the true nature of the human psyche. > > Glo: Michelle, that is one of the best and most succinct explanations I have > seen for such a vast topic. > >From this and your other posts, you appear to be a "storehouse" of knowledge > yourself! So glad you have joined us and welcome! > > > >Jim Scroggins wrote: > >> > >> > >> Dear Glo, > >> > >> I have a passing familiarity with Jung but I haven't heard anything > >> about a > >> storehouse of seeds, what would be an example of one of these seeds? I > >> love > >> seeds, they're great for analogy and tasty when toasted. > > Glo: Mmmm, yes tasty and nutty! Briefly, viewing consciousness as like a > storehouse of seeds, Buddhist practices like meditation, etc are compared to > 'cultivating' with the right conditions to 'grow' compassion and peace..the > seeds of which exist in everyone in potential. What conscious practices > enable us to grow and nurture the seed of joy? For nothing exists alone, > whatever comes into being must inter-be with conditions of cause and effect. > (Those who believe in reincarnation might extend that chain of karma to > include effects of other lives.) Thich Nhat Hanh has written extensively > using simple analogies like these to illustrate his teachings. "Being Peace" > is a good book. Similarly, as Jesus said, the fruits of the spirit are love, > joy, peace etc. Jim: Yes, my blue experience happened after I had been meditating for a couple of years. > As for the > >> collective > >> unconcious, is it assumed that it dwells within us? > > Glo: It is assumed to exist due to the effects which ARE observable. Just as > the wind is assumed (tho invisible itself) to be blowing when the leaves > move. Not only great minds think alike, When superficial differences of > cultural expression are examined carefully, humans are far more alike than > different. This is what I love about the work of Jung and Joseph Campbell. > They both have an eye for discovering the deeper oneness, seeing how our > common humanness unites us all no matter the time and place. > and if so would dna > >> have > >> anything to do with it? > > As Michelle answered already, and of course, most simply - this creates a > human being, not a chimp. The complexities of our DNA and the chemical codes > are fascinating, what can one say about all this? When you consider all > that goes on without any need of our conscious awareness, it puts our > conscious mind in perspective. > >> > >> Full of questions, > >> Jim > >> > Me too. > Glo Jim: OK, so now I'm wondering, does a collective unconscious imply a collective consciousness? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 1999 Report Share Posted October 27, 1999 >Jim Scroggins <Jimshead > > >Jim: OK, so now I'm wondering, does a collective unconscious imply a >collective consciousness? > Glo: Yes, Jim. I believe it is loosely referred to as "the world." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 1999 Report Share Posted October 28, 1999 > > > >Jim: OK, so now I'm wondering, does a collective unconscious imply a > >collective consciousness? > > > > Glo: Yes, Jim. I believe it is loosely referred to as "the world." So Maya is self directed? Making conscious decisions? Maybe we can talk to it, get the next lotto numbers. But seriously, I believe that 'the world' is trying to accomplish something, life is pervasive and it continues to become more complex as if it has a goal in mind. Self Organization, social and biological. Would you consider this a collective consciousness? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 1999 Report Share Posted October 28, 1999 >Jim Scroggins <Jimshead > >> > >> >Jim: OK, so now I'm wondering, does a collective unconscious imply a >> >collective consciousness? >> > >> >> Glo: Yes, Jim. I believe it is loosely referred to as "the world." > >So Maya is self directed? Making conscious decisions? Maybe we can >talk to it, get the next lotto numbers. But seriously, I believe that >'the world' is trying to accomplish something, life is pervasive and it >continues to become more complex as if it has a goal in mind. Self >Organization, social and biological. Would you consider this a >collective consciousness? > Glo: Here all this time I thought I was the Mommy handing out red-lollipop answers to get you to stop asking why...when actually you were a pool hustler letting me have those easy shots, setting me up for this!! Well, all bets are off, babycakes!! AS IF...oh yeah, only two of the most dangerous words around. You go from a simple question to discussing the meaning of life, the universe and, everything! For starters, you just equated consciousness with Maya and then with all life and called it all purposive. Geez, being life isn't enough in itself, now it needs a goal? A destination? A purpose! We aren't just getting a free ride on the roller coaster, man we are going places!! What are you trying to do here Jim, start a religion or something? You tell me where we are going, and I'll decide if I want to go joy-riding with you ...btw, who IS driving?? Seriously, as you say, please do not mistake my simple analogies for all purpose, one size fits all definitions. I said "loosely"... I'm a simple person.. I only said that much [...] not all the rest you implied. You can say all that if you like, I guess you did. The world as a concrete, actual, physical existence ( as contrasted with abstract ideas and thoughts about it which are models we impose on it for various purposes...) does provide a "shared reality" which we can and do participate in with one another and discuss..and language can be used to refer to or describe it - what is known by one person can be known by others. I can more easily say, "Do you see the full moon, tonight?" and know we are roughly looking at the same thing.. than, "Hey, what about that maya?" Now we need to discuss and find some common definitions of meaning before we muddy these waters any further. Or just skip it. If you want my unsupported opinion, I would answer yes to your last question, if you don't force me to explain why and how. :) Our collective conscious knowledge "seems" to evolve in ways similar to biological forms. Does greater complexity all by itself seem to be a goal to you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 1999 Report Share Posted October 28, 1999 michele wrote: > > Thanks for the welcome Glo!!! I am very happy to be here and sharing > with so many like-minded people. My "storehouse" of knowledge is my > wonderful teacher, Dr Jonn Mumford (Swami Anandakapila), as well as the > many beautiful people I have met through 20 years of yoga practice. > Look forward to sitting at the lotus feet of all the teachers here, and > expanding my knowledge even more. > OM Shanti > Michele > > Gloria Lee wrote: > > > > "Gloria Lee" <glee > > > > > > michele <michele > > > > Michelle wrote: > > > > >>The collective unconsciousness is the "memory" of who/what we really > > >are, and when you dig beneath the surface of any cultural or religious > > >tradition you will come to this archetypal symbols. Jung was building > > >on the work that was done by ancient mystics in the area of dreams and > > >understanding the true nature of the human psyche. > > > > Glo: Michelle, that is one of the best and most succinct explanations I have > > seen for such a vast topic. > > >From this and your other posts, you appear to be a "storehouse" of knowledge > > yourself! So glad you have joined us and welcome! > > > > > >Jim Scroggins wrote: > > >> > > >> > > >> Dear Glo, > > >> > > >> I have a passing familiarity with Jung but I haven't heard anything > > >> about a > > >> storehouse of seeds, what would be an example of one of these seeds? I > > >> love > > >> seeds, they're great for analogy and tasty when toasted. > > > > Glo: Mmmm, yes tasty and nutty! Briefly, viewing consciousness as like a > > storehouse of seeds, Buddhist practices like meditation, etc are compared to > > 'cultivating' with the right conditions to 'grow' compassion and peace..the > > seeds of which exist in everyone in potential. What conscious practices > > enable us to grow and nurture the seed of joy? For nothing exists alone, > > whatever comes into being must inter-be with conditions of cause and effect. > > (Those who believe in reincarnation might extend that chain of karma to > > include effects of other lives.) Thich Nhat Hanh has written extensively > > using simple analogies like these to illustrate his teachings. "Being Peace" > > is a good book. Similarly, as Jesus said, the fruits of the spirit are love, > > joy, peace etc. > > > > As for the > > >> collective > > >> unconcious, is it assumed that it dwells within us? > > > > Glo: It is assumed to exist due to the effects which ARE observable. Just as > > the wind is assumed (tho invisible itself) to be blowing when the leaves > > move. Not only great minds think alike, When superficial differences of > > cultural expression are examined carefully, humans are far more alike than > > different. This is what I love about the work of Jung and Joseph Campbell. > > They both have an eye for discovering the deeper oneness, seeing how our > > common humanness unites us all no matter the time and place. > > > > and if so would dna > > >> have > > >> anything to do with it? > > > > As Michelle answered already, and of course, most simply - this creates a > > human being, not a chimp. The complexities of our DNA and the chemical codes > > are fascinating, what can one say about all this? When you consider all > > that goes on without any need of our conscious awareness, it puts our > > conscious mind in perspective. > > >> > > >> Full of questions, > > >> Jim > > >> > > Me too. > > Glo > > > > > > All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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