Guest guest Posted November 3, 1999 Report Share Posted November 3, 1999 My very dear Janpa Tsomo, To accuse someone of breach of tantric engagement is a rather serious matter. According to the Sakya Pandita commentary on the Downfalls... (if you would like a copy of this I can send you one) * Giving the secret teachings to beings who are not spiritually mature is the seventh This is to say that it is a root downfall to explain the inner teachings to those who have had no initiations, to show them the vajra, bell and kapala, and to explain to them the secret rules of conduct and the ganacakrapuja mandala. This presumes (a) that you are claiming your comrades here to be 'spiritually immature' inasmuch as they have not recited the refuge formula before an accredited Buddhist teacher. Gampopa, however (among others), contends that it is perfectly adequate to recite the refuge vows - refuge being, after all, in one's own primordial buddha-nature, no? - with sincerity and UNDERSTANDING for the refuge to be accorded. If, by refuge, you mean the Buddha, he's dead. If you mean the Dharma, I assume you read and understand any of the following: Sanskrit, Tibetan, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Pali, Thai, Burmese, Sogdian, Javanese... If not, you are at the mercy of translations as inadequate as my own, I'm afraid, and a lot of what is technical term in the Dharma will have been misrepresented to you. If your refuge is in the Sangha, you and I have lineages and Lamas in common... (b) that I have in any way explained the inner teachings to anyone who has not been initiated into them... I have explained nothing at all © that I have shown them my samaya substances, explained to them the 'secret rules of conduct' (do you know these?) and the mandala of the ganacakrapuja (would you know how to explain this?) What I HAVE done, is shared with them a vision... an exquisite text by an extremely accomplished yogin who was my root lama and whose collected works I have been comissioned to translate... (shouldn't take me much more than the rest of time)... My purpose in so doing has been simple enough: Vision - visions that seek to divide - need to establish one side as valuable so that everything else they encounter may be considered as 'outside'... In my perhaps misguided opinion, such vision is inadequate to the facts as they appear before us. To paraphrase several great Buddhist teachers: what binds you is not things, but your attachment to them as this that or the other. Sharing a vision of all-encompassing and radiant beauty, open-hearted kindliness and all-encompassing compassion does not - to me, anyway - seem to be inappropriate in this strange corner of time... Nowhere, as far as I know, have I established myself as a know-it-all, nowhere have I encouraged anyone toward anything but gentle acceptance of being and its overwhelming glory, nowhere have I encouraged anything except open-heartedness, open-mindedness and cutting through the narrowness of one's own rather crabbed little points of view, be they concerning the 'sacred' or the 'profane'. Technically, my dear, if you do consider me as someone who is breaking his vows, you should gird up your loins and get thee hence... It is HIGHLY inadvisable to have anything whatsoever to do with oath-breakers - especially Tantric oath-breakers... .... Instead you take me on as combat partner... And what you would like to fight with me about is the propriety of exposing the beauty of a goddess who sprung, herself, from a tear of the Bodhisattva of Compassion. I suppose wars have been fought over less... This much I will say: In the centre of the labyrinth is a being with the brains of an ox and the feeble strength of a fop. Almost aznyone who goes in there gets eaten up by him... The Buddhist philosophy and Buddhist path were established mainly in order to grab hold of philosophers and wanderers by the seat of their pants and drag them out of the dark and back into the light. Think about it. By the way, the Tara in this particular text, no-one seems to have noticed, is not green. m Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 1999 Report Share Posted November 3, 1999 In a message dated 11/3/99 9:24:16 AM Central Standard Time, goode writes: <<Maybe the incense is where the association with green comes in - "Green Tara" > Maybe. But my understanding is that the colors of the Taras - comes from the Five Elements. And the Five Buddha Families. And each color of Tara - has different 'properties'. Red Tara - is Wrathful, for example. And then there is the 21 Color Tara - which incorporates all the Tara aspects - diana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 1999 Report Share Posted November 3, 1999 Hello Mike, >To accuse someone of breach of tantric engagement is a rather serious matter. I saw a couple of gentle warnings in Janpa's post... and not entirely directed to you, I thought. I think you are taking this much more seriously than her words call for. >snip< >Technically, my dear, if you do consider me as someone who is breaking his >vows, you should gird up your loins and get thee hence... It is HIGHLY >inadvisable to have anything whatsoever to do with oath-breakers - >especially Tantric oath-breakers... >... Instead you take me on as combat partner... And what you would like to >fight with me about is the propriety of exposing the beauty of a goddess >who sprung, herself, from a tear of the Bodhisattva of Compassion. >I suppose wars have been fought over less... Why look for combat where there is none? And _please_... do not tell gentle Janpa to "get thee hence"... she is greatly loved here. Dharma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 1999 Report Share Posted November 3, 1999 At 11:55 AM 11/3/99 +0100, mike dickman wrote: >By the way, the Tara in this particular text, no-one seems to have noticed, >is not green. Maybe the incense is where the association with green comes in - "Green Tara" --Greg Greg Goode (e-mail: goode) Computer Support Phone: 4-5723 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 1999 Report Share Posted November 3, 1999 >Dharma <fisher1 > > >Re: Arya Tara >Wed, 3 Nov 1999 07:49:09 -0500 > >Dharma <fisher1 > >Hello Mike, > > >To accuse someone of breach of tantric engagement is a rather serious >matter. > >I saw a couple of gentle warnings in Janpa's post... and not entirely >directed to you, I thought. I think you are taking this much more >seriously than her words call for. actually i did not mean to directly accuse mike. i reacted out of an inner warning. a cautionary approach that mirrors my own set-in-ether 'rules' > > >snip< > >Technically, my dear, if you do consider me as someone who is breaking >his > >vows, you should gird up your loins and get thee hence... It is HIGHLY > >inadvisable to have anything whatsoever to do with oath-breakers - > >especially Tantric oath-breakers... > >... Instead you take me on as combat partner... And what you would like >to > >fight with me about is the propriety of exposing the beauty of a goddess > >who sprung, herself, from a tear of the Bodhisattva of Compassion. > >I suppose wars have been fought over less... > >Why look for combat where there is none? by 'combat' i meant in the sense of dharma combat, to help one clarify one's views and 'rules'. if one loses at that, one wins, because you learn. if you win, you also learn. its a great thing. and alot of fun. i tend to get stuck in ideas. very stuck in ideas. but if given enough evidence, i will also abandon useless ideas. so by 'combat' all i meant was a fun 'lets put up the straw girl and see if she holds up to this questioning'. seriously. sorry for the misunderstandings. --janpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 1999 Report Share Posted November 3, 1999 There's a good book about Tara called "in Praise Of Tara, Songs of the Saviouress" by Martin Wilson. Explains all the gritty details --jt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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