Guest guest Posted November 10, 1999 Report Share Posted November 10, 1999 No methods proposed by Western philosophers? Wait just a sec... Methods proposed by Western philosophers (in random order): Plato: sit in a cave and watch the shadows cast by a fire Alan Watts, Tim Leary, Richard Alpert: take lots of LSD Meister Eckhardt: Contemplate the nature of Godhead Socrates: Ask questions Jesus: Direct prayer/communion with the divine intentional fasting Issac Luria: Intense meditation using letters of divine names William Blake: Use of poetic imagination, prophetic vision Carl Jung: Active imagination; exploration of dreams and creativity Hildegaard Von Bingen: Devotion to Divine Love Leonardo da Vinci: Integrate rationality and aesthetics Sigmund Freud: Profound self-analysis and release of past emotional patterns Moses: Spend 40 years in the desert Abraham: reject any images of divinity as truth Paul: organize a community John Cage: integrate silence and sound Stansislav Grof: rapid deep breathing accompanied by music, drumming, internal imagery Wittgenstein: recognize the limits of language Some of these methods are quite useful in my opinion. --- Dan >> > With regard to Western Philosophers, I don't notice >> >any real 'how to', teachings with regard to >> >Liberation, even if they are non-dual. As opposed to >> >the science of Liberation taught in the East/India. >> >> This is true. To most Western philosophers it's a purely >> intellectual >> exercise. No soteriological or spiritual motives to their writing. >> Even >> some like Schopenhauer who were exposed to Eastern teachings don't >> prescribe any methods. But the arguments can be part of one's path. >> >Yes, and the "methods" >prescribed in the East are >many, diverse, and a *long* >way from deterministic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 10, 1999 Report Share Posted November 10, 1999 At 08:16 AM 11/10/99 -0500, Dan Berkow, PhD wrote: >No methods proposed by Western philosophers? Wait just a sec... >Methods proposed by Western philosophers (in random order): > >Plato: sit in a cave and watch the shadows cast by a fire >Alan Watts, Tim Leary, Richard Alpert: take lots of LSD >Meister Eckhardt: Contemplate the nature of Godhead >Socrates: Ask questions >Jesus: Direct prayer/communion with the divine > intentional fasting >Issac Luria: Intense meditation using letters of divine names >William Blake: Use of poetic imagination, prophetic vision >Carl Jung: Active imagination; exploration of dreams and creativity >Hildegaard Von Bingen: Devotion to Divine Love >Leonardo da Vinci: Integrate rationality and aesthetics >Sigmund Freud: Profound self-analysis and release of past emotional patterns >Moses: Spend 40 years in the desert >Abraham: reject any images of divinity as truth >Paul: organize a community >John Cage: integrate silence and sound >Stansislav Grof: rapid deep breathing accompanied by music, drumming, > internal imagery >Wittgenstein: recognize the limits of language > >Some of these methods are quite useful in my opinion. This is true for most of these thinkers. In thinking that Western philosophers don't use methods or have salvific motives, I was using a very narrow, academic notion of "Western Philosopher." Such as, if you major in Philosophy at a university, who do you study? Usually not mystics, poets, psychologists or theologians. In that narrow academic respect, only Plato, Socrates and Wittgenstein would be considered philosophers. And the only real method that emerges from them is the Socratic method. In most Western teachings about Socrates, this method is seen as a way to gain wisdom. But yes, the others in the list above were serious about transforming human experience and talked somewhat about how to do it. I remember studying the Western Theosophical/Anthroposophical mystic Rudolf Steiner years ago. He has fascinating and quite specific things to say about the astral and "spiritual worlds," and used lots of Vedantic concepts in his lectures. But most of his students complain that he gives very very little insight on how others may have the same visions of the universe as he did. --Greg > >> > With regard to Western Philosophers, I don't notice > >> >any real 'how to', teachings with regard to > >> >Liberation, even if they are non-dual. As opposed to > >> >the science of Liberation taught in the East/India. > >> > >> This is true. To most Western philosophers it's a purely > >> intellectual > >> exercise. No soteriological or spiritual motives to their writing. > >> Even > >> some like Schopenhauer who were exposed to Eastern teachings don't > >> prescribe any methods. But the arguments can be part of one's path. > >> > >Yes, and the "methods" > >prescribed in the East are > >many, diverse, and a *long* > >way from deterministic. > >>All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, >perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and >subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not >different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the >nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. >It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the >Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of >Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome >all to a. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 10, 1999 Report Share Posted November 10, 1999 ))))))))))))))))) LOL ))))))))))))))) Very funny, Dan! Thanks! )))) >No methods proposed by Western philosophers? Wait just a sec... >Methods proposed by Western philosophers (in random order): > >Plato: sit in a cave and watch the shadows cast by a fire >Alan Watts, Tim Leary, Richard Alpert: take lots of LSD >Meister Eckhardt: Contemplate the nature of Godhead >Socrates: Ask questions >Jesus: Direct prayer/communion with the divine > intentional fasting >Issac Luria: Intense meditation using letters of divine names >William Blake: Use of poetic imagination, prophetic vision >Carl Jung: Active imagination; exploration of dreams and creativity >Hildegaard Von Bingen: Devotion to Divine Love >Leonardo da Vinci: Integrate rationality and aesthetics >Sigmund Freud: Profound self-analysis and release of past emotional patterns >Moses: Spend 40 years in the desert >Abraham: reject any images of divinity as truth >Paul: organize a community >John Cage: integrate silence and sound >Stansislav Grof: rapid deep breathing accompanied by music, drumming, > internal imagery >Wittgenstein: recognize the limits of language > >Some of these methods are quite useful in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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