banned

[Guest guest]

>

Some of you may know - i have been banned over at the NonDuality list (after

I said I was unsubbing) - for pointing out the obvious. I will not go into

details. Roughly - a person over there had an email altercation with a male

(who is also a member of this list). The male then proceeded to physically

threatened (by email) the female involved.

 

Mostly on the list seemed to feel this was 'personal' problem between the two

people involved. And urged the female to 'love' the male involved. I thought

it might be prudent to take threats seriously. Most of the list there -

apparently disagrees with me. After pointing out possible legal liabilltites

in ignoring the situation - and pointing out that by encouraging the male who

made the threats - (by telling him 'they loved him' anyway) there could be

legal repercussions - it was decided that since 'I' had created the probelm -

I should be banned! <g> I had already made the deicision to unsub and had

announced it on the list.

 

i can only say that the sort of sloppy thinking regarding the difference

between an internal understanding and external causality (apparent on that

list) - seems typical of those proclaiming to be 'non dualists'. Too bad.

 

diana

 

---

Dear Diana

 

I have quite a different perspective on what happened at NonDuality Salon.

These are some of the differences:

 

-I heard not one word of physical threat from anyone.

 

-I heard a variety of responses from other people, several supporting the

female in facing a difficult situation, some supporting the ban of the male,

some encouraging each other to also support the male in learning from the

experience.

 

-I did not hear anyone say it was a personal problem between a male and a

female. I did hear earlier about the conflict between the male and another

male.

 

-I did not hear anyone say they supported what the male did, only that

despite the harmfulness of what he did they were not willing to stop loving

him.

 

-The idea of banning you, came from the list owner when he was momentarily

annoyed with what he saw in you as an unduely harsh response to the situation.

After you posted that you were unsubing there were several posts, including

the list owner, which expressed a hope that you would return.

 

I can only suggest that your past experience generated a fairly intense

response to the situation. This is a function of the personal mind, it

tends to see the present through lenses of the past. As I see it, some

people on the forum are coming to terms with the situation in new ways -

there was and still is growth and letting go. I hope that is also the case

for the central male involved. And I hope it is the case for you.

 

Every situation is an opportunity for seeing where we are holding onto the

past and letting our painful stories be healed, for allowing our personal

identity patterns dissolve into the purity of our natural Self.

 

 

with love

xan

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/10/99 4:23:41 PM Central Standard Time, Xanma

writes:

 

<< After you posted that you were unsubing there were several posts,

including

the list owner, which expressed a hope that you would return. >>

 

That is nice. How was I supposed to read these responses? psychic ability? <g>

 

< And I hope it is the case for you.>

 

I have nothing to let go of - Xan. Thanks though -

diana

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/10/99 4:23:41 PM Central Standard Time, Xanma

writes:

 

<< -I did not hear anyone say it was a personal problem between a male and a

female. I did hear earlier about the conflict between the male and another

male. >>

 

No one SAID it. I sensed from reading the posts that it may have been a

factor in many people's minds. I may have been wrong.

 

*-I heard not one word of physical threat from anyone.*

 

I recall the male saying something like - he'd like to beat the living

bejesus out of the female. Or possibly he said - he's like to do that to

people with views like the female's (I would have to read all that crap again

- which I will not do). Considering what else was said and the context of it

- I don't know. That sounds suspiciously physical and threatening to me.

 

*-I did not hear anyone say they supported what the male did, only that

despite the harmfulness of what he did they were not willing to stop loving

him.*

 

there were threats made. A threat was made to continue changing servers and

flooding the female with e-spam - forever. A statement was made to the effect

"I can do whatever I want - and you cannot stop me". Therefore - a considered

response would be to express non-approval of the threats. Do you have kids?

Ever trying to tell the kids "I loveyou" - while he's strangling the cat?

There is a time and place for everything. Any threats etc need a prompt and

APPROPRIATE feedback. To tell the bully - "It's ok - we love you no matter

WHAT you do" is not appropriate while he is still making active threats. Such

words do NOT defuse the situation. They simply encourage the bully. That was

all I was trying to say. Apparently it shook a lot of cages - and upset many

world views.

 

*-The idea of banning you, came from the list owner when he was momentarily

annoyed with what he saw in you as an unduely harsh response to the

situation.*

 

I offered no threats or insult to the list owner. If mere words have no power

- and threats (although I never made any) have no power - how comes HE got so

upset when I simply pointed out something he did not want to see? <g>

 

I am not hurt. I am not angry. And I have no desire to go back to the

NonDuality list. It is a small Attachment - but I do get a slight charge out

of pointing out the inconsistencies in 'the advanced' thinking systems of

people (when they are obviously not thinking clearly - and are going on

habitual behavior). You are very right - the situation triggered a lot of

conditioned behavior. It is an excellent time to observe just how and why -

 

diana

[Guest guest]

Xena,

 

Are you familiar with the nickname "paper tiger" for the US, given by the

late Mao Zedong during the Vietnam war? If you would have known that what

was interpreted as threat was but the roar of a paper tiger, would that

have made a difference in your responses?

 

Jan