Guest guest Posted November 10, 1999 Report Share Posted November 10, 1999 Greg Goode wrote: > > At 12:35 PM 11/10/99 -0800, Tony O'Clery wrote: > > > I would be interested if anyone has a quote from Greek > > or Western Philos, showing 'how to'. > > I'm just pondering now, no references yet, but there's a place in > Symposium where Plato describes how Love blossoms, generalizes and > spreads out to all things once it is better understood. I'd have to > re-read it to see what kind of endpoint he points to. In mystical > Christianity there are the Dark Night of the Soul by St. John of the > Cross, and the Cloud of Unknowing. They are used by people as manuals > of transcendence. Bernadette Roberts writes a lot about non-duality > using St. John of the Cross as a map. > > Then there are the medieval alchemists, Rosicrucians and hermeticists > who have very elaborate paths, rites of initiation, graded levels, > etc. Many of these schools either still exist or have been discovered > and re-vitalized over the last 100 years. It is less clear that the > endpoint they point to in this life is non-dual realization, because > they often involve cosmic evolution, but all the ones I've looked into > do advocate transcendence of some sort and freedom from suffering. > > Regards, > > --Greg How about Plotinus? I seem to remember that he wrote of realization of oneness through goodness and hard philosophical inquiry. I can't find a "how to" quote yet but here's a quote about realization; "Often I have woken to myself out of the body, become detached from all else and entered into myself; and I have seen beauty of surpassing greatness, and have felt assured that then especially I belonged to the higher reality, engaged in the noblest life and identified with the Divine." [Enneads, iv.8] andrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 10, 1999 Report Share Posted November 10, 1999 At 07:31 PM 11/10/99 -0400, andrew macnab wrote: >How about Plotinus? I seem to remember that he wrote of realization of >oneness through goodness and hard philosophical inquiry. I can't find a >"how to" quote yet but here's a quote about realization; > > >"Often I have woken to myself out of the body, become detached from all >else and entered into myself; and I have seen beauty of surpassing >greatness, and have felt assured that then especially I belonged to the >higher reality, engaged in the noblest life and identified with the >Divine." [Enneads, iv.8] Plotinus is one of the best! Though I'm not too familiar with him, he is revered more by Western mystics than Western philosophers. I remember from my earlier studies in Rosicrucianism, Anthroposophy, Theosophy, Hermeticism, Kabbala and Christian mysticism that he did have a method. There's Origen, and Philo of Alexandria (almost not Western) and Hermes Trismegistus (Thrice Greatest Hermes) whose immense writings on Greek Theosophy have been collected into three volumes totalling almost 900 pages. There are satsang-like and Platonic-like dialogues. I coudln't find any instructions, but there are various descriptions of what happens to the soul after death. Paracelsus I think has some recipes for transformation. Regards, --Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 1999 Report Share Posted November 11, 1999 At 07:31 PM 11/10/99 -0400, andrew macnab wrote: How about Plotinus? I seem to remember that he wrote of realization of oneness through goodness and hard philosophical inquiry. I can't find a "how to" quote yet but here's a quote about realization; "Often I have woken to myself out of the body, become detached from all else and entered into myself; and I have seen beauty of surpassing greatness, and have felt assured that then especially I belonged to the higher reality, engaged in the noblest life and identified with the Divine." [Enneads, iv.8] Plotinus is one of the best! Though I'm not too familiar with him, he is revered more by Western mystics than Western philosophers. I remember from my earlier studies in Rosicrucianism, Anthroposophy, Theosophy, Hermeticism, Kabbala and Christian mysticism that he did have a method. There's Origen, and Philo of Alexandria (almost not Western) and Hermes Trismegistus (Thrice Greatest Hermes) whose immense writings on Greek Theosophy have been collected into three volumes totalling almost 900 pages. There are satsang-like and Platonic-like dialogues. I coudln't find any instructions, but there are various descriptions of what happens to the soul after death. Paracelsus I think has some recipes for transformation. Regards, --Greg The books of Hermes Trismegistus were translated by Jan van Reykenborgh into Dutch, a very interesting read as it becomes clear that Hermes was speaking as someone, having completed what Rosicrucians call "transfiguration". Anyone having benefited from the simple practice one has to intuit oneself cannot but arrive at the conclusion that this simple practice must have been the (unspoken) basis of all Western systems. To leave no doubt, after completion of transfiguration the objective conditions for living have been transcended: no more urge to breathe, no more feeling of pain, no more urge to sleep, yet a living body remains. In other words, unconditionally Awake. Jan van Reykenborgh jokingly called the Eastern attitude of "having arrived" at the first glimpse (enlightenment) as taking an optimistic loan on the future Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 1999 Report Share Posted November 11, 1999 Hi Greg and Jan, > Plotinus is one of the best! Though I'm not too familiar with him, he >is revered more by Western mystics than Western philosophers. I remember >from my earlier studies in Rosicrucianism, Anthroposophy, Theosophy, >Hermeticism, Kabbala and Christian mysticism that he did have a method. >There's Origen, and Philo of Alexandria (almost not Western) and Hermes >Trismegistus (Thrice Greatest Hermes) whose immense writings on Greek >Theosophy have been collected into three volumes totalling almost 900 >pages. There are satsang-like and Platonic-like dialogues. I coudln't >find any instructions, but there are various descriptions of what happens >to the soul after death. Paracelsus I think has some recipes for >transformation. We're covering a lot of territory here! Origen was Christian... Philo was Jewish, I think. Paracelsus was an alchemist, which leads to that whole tradition, which appears to have existed in the East also. Plotinus, Origen, Philo, and Paracelsus were real people, but Hermes was not. Those three volumes are a translation by Meade, I think, of the Hermetic literature of the Mediterranean world in the Hellenistic period. They are the mostly exoteric literature of the Mysteries. One book is entitled _Poemandres_ (The Shepherd of Men), which is also the name of the entire corpus. The dialogues, as I recall, are usually between/including persons of the Hermetic trinity, which included a female figure. Descriptions of the soul after death would refer to initiates of the Mysteries, who were known as the Twice-born... The unitiated were called Mortals. In Meade's collection he gives a long introductory section on the Egyptian Mysteries, which preceded the Hellenistic period by thousands of years. He explains the name "Trismegistus" as referring to three different priesthoods of the Mysteries, from three different periods. And in the great vision of Lucius Apuleius in _The Golden Ass_, which dates from Hellenistic times, Isis emerges from the sea, wearing sun, moon and stars, etc., and reveals to Lucius that she is worshipped in many places under many names, that she is all gods and goddesses. Meade also has an appendix on the relationship of the Mysteries to Christianity. He points out that their use of terminology and symbolism from the Mysteries shows that Jesus and Paul were initiates. When Jesus called himself the good shepherd, the shepherd of men, he knew exactly what he was saying to initiates. Meade says that Jesus' great offense to those in authority was that he openly taught to everyone those things that were supposed to be kept secret, that were only to be revealed to initiates of the Mysteries. (This becomes even clearer, I think, as we know more of the Gnostic gospels.) If the West had the Tree of Life, it grew in the sacred groves of the Mysteries... and the last groves were cut down when the Christian bishops declared their Gnostic brethren heretics and the Gnostic Christian tradition heresy. Thereafter, the Tree of Life was camouflaged or nurtured in secret, like marijuana in a closet. Love, Dharma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 1999 Report Share Posted November 11, 1999 >At 07:31 PM 11/10/99 -0400, andrew macnab wrote: > >>How about Plotinus? I seem to remember that he wrote of realization of >>oneness through goodness and hard philosophical inquiry. I can't find a >>"how to" quote yet but here's a quote about realization; >> >> >>"Often I have woken to myself out of the body, become detached from all >>else and entered into myself; and I have seen beauty of surpassing >>greatness, and have felt assured that then especially I belonged to the >>higher reality, engaged in the noblest life and identified with the >>Divine." [Enneads, iv.8] > > >Plotinus is one of the best! Though I'm not too familiar with him, he is >revered more by Western mystics than Western philosophers. I remember from >my earlier studies in Rosicrucianism, Anthroposophy, Theosophy, >Hermeticism, Kabbala and Christian mysticism that he did have a method. > >There's Origen, and Philo of Alexandria (almost not Western) and Hermes >Trismegistus (Thrice Greatest Hermes) whose immense writings on Greek >Theosophy have been collected into three volumes totalling almost 900 >pages. There are satsang-like and Platonic-like dialogues. I coudln't >find any instructions, but there are various descriptions of what happens >to the soul after death. Paracelsus I think has some recipes for >transformation. > >Regards, > >--Greg Another ancient mystic Pythogoros comes to mind. He had a math club in which you could not be admitted unless you fasted 40 days. Fasting was a sure recipe for spiritual experience. A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 1999 Report Share Posted November 11, 1999 On 11/11/99 at 9:06 AM Dharma wrote: >Dharma <fisher1 > >Hi Greg and Jan, [...] >If the West had the Tree of Life, it grew in the sacred groves of the >Mysteries... and the last groves were cut down when the Christian bishops >declared their Gnostic brethren heretics and the Gnostic Christian >tradition heresy. Thereafter, the Tree of Life was camouflaged or nurtured >in secret, like marijuana in a closet. > >Love, >Dharma Good conclusion Dharma; indeed, Jan van Reykenborgh based several of his books on what he called the "reconstructed" N.T., still not mentioning the "key" to transformation but nevertheless explaining everything in a most satisfactory way. My interpretation of it is that it could be called an abridged and refined form of laya yoga; the "essentials" of it are always transmitted orally (for very good reasons) and one has to qualify. Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 1999 Report Share Posted November 11, 1999 Hi Jan, >Good conclusion Dharma; indeed, Jan van Reykenborgh based several of his >books on what he called the "reconstructed" N.T., still not mentioning the >"key" to transformation but nevertheless explaining everything in a most >satisfactory way. My interpretation of it is that it could be called an >abridged and refined form of laya yoga; the "essentials" of it are always >transmitted orally (for very good reasons) and one has to qualify. That's very interesting! Are his books available in English? Love, Dharma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 1999 Report Share Posted November 12, 1999 On 11/11/99 at 8:25 PM Dharma wrote: >Dharma <fisher1 > >Hi Jan, > >>Good conclusion Dharma; indeed, Jan van Reykenborgh based several of his >>books on what he called the "reconstructed" N.T., still not mentioning the >>"key" to transformation but nevertheless explaining everything in a most >>satisfactory way. My interpretation of it is that it could be called an >>abridged and refined form of laya yoga; the "essentials" of it are always >>transmitted orally (for very good reasons) and one has to qualify. > >That's very interesting! Are his books available in English? > >Love, >Dharma Most of his books are available in English too. Once I met one of his students; she told he had helped her to develop to a point where it is certain to reach the "goal" (nirvana/moksha/union of Shiva and Shakti). Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 1999 Report Share Posted November 12, 1999 Hi Jan, >>>Good conclusion Dharma; indeed, Jan van Reykenborgh based several of his >>>books on what he called the "reconstructed" N.T., still not mentioning >the >>>"key" to transformation but nevertheless explaining everything in a most >>>satisfactory way. My interpretation of it is that it could be called an >>>abridged and refined form of laya yoga; the "essentials" of it are always >>>transmitted orally (for very good reasons) and one has to qualify. >> >>That's very interesting! Are his books available in English? >Most of his books are available in English too. Once I met one of his >students; she told he had helped her to develop to a point where it is >certain to reach the "goal" (nirvana/moksha/union of Shiva and Shakti). Wonderful! Did she tell you anything more about him and/or his methods? Love, Dharma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 1999 Report Share Posted November 12, 1999 On 11/12/99 at 12:36 PM Dharma wrote: >Dharma <fisher1 > >Hi Jan, > >>>>Good conclusion Dharma; indeed, Jan van Reykenborgh based several of his >>>>books on what he called the "reconstructed" N.T., still not mentioning >>the >>>>"key" to transformation but nevertheless explaining everything in a most >>>>satisfactory way. My interpretation of it is that it could be called an >>>>abridged and refined form of laya yoga; the "essentials" of it are always >>>>transmitted orally (for very good reasons) and one has to qualify. >>> >>>That's very interesting! Are his books available in English? > >>Most of his books are available in English too. Once I met one of his >>students; she told he had helped her to develop to a point where it is >>certain to reach the "goal" (nirvana/moksha/union of Shiva and Shakti). > >Wonderful! Did she tell you anything more about him and/or his methods? > >Love, >Dharma It was the first time I met with someone NOT indoctrinated with philosophies, but someone for whom life was based on transformation. So little words were exchanged as both of us knew the books; for her it had meant a written guide to practice and for me it had been like reading great novels. The method is very similar to what came to me spontaneously: you come to the conclusion that "worldly" life by itself doesn't lead to lasting happiness and you say good bye to all things but stay alive. This alone will enable transformations to take place effortlessly. It is (rightly) called radical, fundamental; according to him, one doesn't really have a choice. The dualism is only a veil and for a good reason; making the discovery of a lifetime that there is only "the immovable kingdom" is far more rewarding then the message "you are always That": You do not show a 4 year old a Ferrari and say "that is your car. It is yours already, only you have 14 years to wait before you can actually drive in it. But time doesn't exist, so you are driving in it already. You just don't realize that". The child would probably be torn apart by desire, hope, expectation, frustration.... Not exactly compassionate. Of course there are always a few 4 year olds who will say "OK. Got it" The fragments of what is left from the ancient system hint at the fact that there wasn't a division between "system for transformation" and "worldly" life; the crown of thorns Jesus was wearing only symbolizes a configuration of pranic currents through nadis one will feel before "attaining" the immovable kingdom (death of the "I") and there has been a time where the "righteous kings" had to be those without the "I"; their symbol of power was the crown for an obvious reason - it was the "mark" of civilization. It is said, the first such kings weren't from human origin and their complexion was white. This is the reason why for instance the Spanish conquererers in South America were welcomed as gods. The hierarchy was entirely based on "level of transformation" and it was recognizable by one's cloths. This is even shown in the pictures from the books of Zecharia Sitchin: the hats with a certain number of "horns". Without the "I" there is an absolute guarantee of righteous government, mainly consisting of eliminating rules/habits that would prevent Ahimsa / anarchy or spontaneous self-rule: the ruler who rules by not-ruling. The similarity with Taoism can't be overlooked... The above (and probably much more) was known to Albigenses and Manichees; they wanted to reinstall the system of "righteous government" and of course that became their death sentence. Jan van Reykenborgh repeatedly mentioned two things: 1. those with inner determination for the transformations will succeed, irrespective of physical or even psychical problems (he himself was an example, having health problems) and 2. the division between those with this inner determination and those without it can even run through a family. Again, his own life was an example. The life of the disciple also was an example and so was mine. She succeeded to console my parents over the sudden death of my brother whereas I couldn't, no matter what I said. Her son was a convinced atheist and humanist and as she felt her body was failing, her last wish was if I would take care of her son as all her efforts had been in vain. One week after our conversation, she left the body. Jan ++ Compassion isn't a virtue: it is natural. May you live long enough to verify that yourself ++ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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