Guest guest Posted November 13, 1999 Report Share Posted November 13, 1999 >Tony O'Clery <aoclery > " as late as 1850 the Irish folk still worshiped her, >regardless of the Catholic priesthood.---At the well >of St. Declan, Ardmore, Co. Waterford……Masses of >people assembled annually on December 22, crawled >beneath a hollowed stone and then drank of the well. >It was surmounted by the image of a female figure >which is described as being 'like the pictures of >Callee (Kali), the Black Goddess of Hindustan.' The >Catholic priests actually whipped the folk away from >the spot, but to no purpose. As Kali and Calleach >(pronounced Kalee), are the same Goddess, after all. >The whips of the priests can never turn what was, into >what was not; nor can failure of memory. >According to David Kinsley,'Hindu Goddesses',UCLA >1988', Kali was essentially a Bengali Figure but was >popular with the ordinary and tribal peoples. However >in The Ramayana she is associated with Sita.' In the >case of Sita, Kali appears as her fierce, terrible, >bloodthirsty aspect when Rama, on his return to India >after defeating Ravana, is confronted with such a >terrible monster the he freezes in fear. Sita >transformed into Kali, handily defeats the demon. p >119. >This indicates that the world was once before a >'Global Village', for it is my guess that the >Indo-European Celts didn't bring Calleach to Ireland, >but that she existed there for millenia, probably >amongst some of the first settlers. Now the Irish have >two Goddesses in common with Dravidia, Danu and >Calleach, indicating a common source of dispersal. > Love and Sai Ram, Tony. Thanks Tony. Absolutely fascinating stuff. Have any of the "modern" so called "main stream scholars" written about this? How come this stuff was not in my Anthropology courses? It makes for great reading. A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 13, 1999 Report Share Posted November 13, 1999 Namaste All, I think that Ireland was probably settled by first or early generation Atlantean refugees; At least 9,000 years ago. Atlantean spiritual knowledge came from the motherland Mu. India was part of Mu as was Australia etc. This is all recorded in the Hindu Puranas although they use different names for these continents. The Celtic Indo-Aryans therefore brought knowledge perhaps from the same source, although circuitously. The following is a re-print from "HINDUISM TODAY" -MAY, 1994 P A R A L L E L S "Like two rivers cascading from the same mist-shrouded mountain, Celtic and early Vedic culture share astonishing similarities. Assembled here, for the first time, is a side-by-side comparison between the two kindred societies that were congruent in time and 3,000 miles apart in space. Our knowledge of the Celt society is rather sparse, and these listed parallels are probably a small percentage of the full extent of common ground. C = CELTIC: V = VEDIC Celts were sophisticated tribes that fanned across Europe 3-4 millennia ago and leapt England and Ireland. Eventually they made it to Turkey their home and came very close to turning Rome into a Celtic land. They spoke an Indo Europen language closely akin to Sanskrit/German/Greek. The connections between Celtism and Vedism are poignantly profuse. © Celtic cosmology cognizes four interrelating worlds of existence: netherworld, earth realm; heavenly realm of dead and demi-gods; WHITE realm of supreme Deities and energy source of stars. (V) Vedic cosmology perceives three interrelating worlds - physical; astral world of dead and demi-gods; causal universe of Deities, Supreme Being and primal energy; plus a fourth nertherworld. 2.© These worlds further divided into LANDS and CITIES occupied by spirits and disincarnate people of similar character. Time is slower in these realms. (V) The three worlds divide into LOKA habitats of existence, occupied by spirits and like-minded disincarnate people. Time is dilated in the LOKAS. 3.© Celtic earth realm is called BITUS. Celtic Gods are called DEUOS, meaning "shining one." (V) Vedic earth world is called BHU. Gods of Vedas are invoked as DEVA, meaning "shining one." 4.© Departed souls dwelled in refined or hellish LANDS until their next reincarnation as a human or animal. (V) At death, souls continue existence in subtle or hellish realms until entry into the next human or animal body. 5.© Celtic priests taught that human souls were indestructible, but the universe ends and rebuilds through fire and water in a repeating cycle. (V) The universe existence span - called KAPLA - ends in a repeating creation/destruction cycle through fire and water, symbolic of primal light and sound.Sairam: The following is the continuation of the series: P A R A L L E L S C = CELTIC: V = VEDIC 6.© Celtic deities included Gods who actualized nature forces, promulgated ethics, justice, knowledge, speech, arts, crafts, medicine, harvests, gave war courage and battled forces of darkness, and Goddesses of land, rivers and motherhood, Gods often did multiple functions. (V) The early Vedic pantheon included deities of fire, solar, atmospheric and nature forces, ritual stimulants, speech, crafts, arts, harvests, medicine, justice, ethical/ecological order, war, battlers of malevolent beings, river Goddesses. God often had overlapping functions. 7.© Celtic God of thunder was TARANUS who carried thunderbolts. God of fire is AEDH(pronounced uh-ee), meaning fire. The sun Deity is SULIOS. The Celtic word for invocation is GUTUATER. (V) Vedic God of rain and thunder was INDRA who carried thunderbolts. Vedic God of fire is AGNI, meaning fire. The solar Being is SURYA. The Sanskrit term for invocation is HOTAR. 8.© Celtic cosmology conceived of cosmic creation as a primal Person sacrifice. The Celt term for breath is ANAL. For soul, the Celt word is ANAM. (V) Vedic cosmology describes cosmic creation as the sacrifice of Primal Being. The Vedic word for breath is PRANA. The soul in the Vedas is ATMAN. 9.© The central Celtic ritual was the fire sacrifice, conducted in geometric pits with offerings of herbs, mead and flour cakes, conducted by chanting DRUIDS, the Celtic priests. (V) The central Vedic ritual was the fire sacrifice, performed in geometric pits with offerings of ghee, spices, rice - conducted - by hymn-and-mantra-chanting BRAHMINS. 10.© Celtic priests were called DRUIDS, meaning "knowers of the tree, or truth." They memorized the entire knowledge of the Celts and passed it on orally, forbidding written transmission. They were divided into several classes: seers, judges, royal advisors, hymn chanters, poet bards, sacrificers. They were also astronomers, healers and magicians. (V) The Vedic priesthood - the brahmins - memorized the scriptural and societal law knowledge of the Hindus, passing it on orally, forbidding writing. Brahmins formed several divisions associated with the fire ritual duties. Enlightened brahmins became RISHIS or seers. Others advised kings and some specialized in medicine and astronomy/astrology.Sairam: Continuation of the series. P A R A L L E L S 11.© Druids studied for 20 years in strict discipleship to master their oral, ritual, law, science and psychic arts. (V) Brahmins studied for 12 years in a GURUKULAM to master oral, ritual, mathematical, astronomical knowledge. 12.© Druids memorized extremely lengthy poetic sagas that communicated spiritual metaphysics and civic laws. The poetic metre was a fixed syllable line, free form, with 3-part cadence at end. (V) Bards of the Vedic literature memorized lengthy poetic sagas conveying spiritual knowledge and dharmic duty. The poetic metre was a fixed syllable line, free form, with 3-part cadence at end. 13. © Druids practiced breathing, posture and meditation techniques that gave degrees of ECSTACY, often accompanied by intense heat in the body. (V) Vedic ascetics practiced breathing, posture and meditation skills in a spiritual unfoldment process called TAPAS(heat), generating high body heat. 14.© Celtic society was divided into three hierarchical stratas of life: priests, warriors and producers (inclusive of merchants). Druids advised warrior-kings known as RIX. Upward progression through classes was possible. (V) Vedic society divided into four hierarchical castes: priests, warriors, merchants, workers. Brahmins counseled warrior-kings (RAJAS). Upward mobility was sanctioned in Vedas, but later frozen in societal law books. 15. © Celts prized the magical power of telling TRUTH, honor/piety among men and eloquence in conversation and oration. (V) Vedic society prized the supernatural power of truth-saying, piety and honor, and eloquence in gatherings. 16. © Celts honored women, guarded their virtue, and allowed by law daughters of sonless fathers to inherit property or to marry kinsmen to bear male heirs to the father. Seeresses were sanctioned, and priestesses for Goddesses favored. (V) Vedic Hindus prized womanly virtues, and by law sonless fathers could bequeath property to daughters or arrange her marriage to relatives for male heirs. Female seers were countenanced, and female ascetics tended Goddess rites. 17. © Celts recognized 8 forms of marriage from arranged to love to abduction. A bride gift was given by the groom. (V) Vedic Hindus followed 8 forms of marriage from arranged to love to abduction. The groom paid a bride price. 18.© Celts defined life stages, COLUMNS OF AGE: infancy (0-1), boyhood (2-11), adolescence (12-18), young adult (19-45), old age (46-65), decrepitude (65+) in which enlightening inspiration is sought. (V) Vedic society taught four ASHRAMA stages life: studentship (12-24); family life (25-48); elder advisor (49-72); religious solitaire (72+), in which the individual seeks enlightenment. 19. © The Celtic ideal measure of life was to live 100 years. (V) The Vedic ideal of a fulfilled life was to live 100 autumns. 20. © Celt family unit was a group of four generations from a great-grandfather. (V) The ancient Hindu family unit is four generations from a great-grandfather. 21. © One Celt calendar was based on 62 lunar months (5 years +) intercalated to a 3-year solar cycle for solstice correction. Druids studied stellar motion, navigation and contemplated such abstracts as the size and nature of the universe. (V) Vedic astronomy is based on lunar months daily aligned to star positions and related to 3-year and 5-year solar cycles. Vedic astronomy was applied to astrology, and the rishi seers contemplated the universe's nature and genesis. 22. © By Celt law a man owed money could fast at the door of the debtor - who must join the fast -forcing the debtor to pay or enter an arbitration. (V) By Hindu law, a creditor could fast at the door of the past due debtor, who then was obligated to protect the health of the creditor and pay the debt." (End) Continuing on from my discussion about Celtic Irish/British fusion with prior 'religions'. Lewis Spence( The minor traditions of British Mythology, London, Rider and co, 1948, 37), again comes to the rescue with; " as late as 1850 the Irish folk still worshiped her, regardless of the Catholic priesthood.---At the well of St. Declan, Ardmore, Co. Waterford……Masses of people assembled annually on December 22, crawled beneath a hollowed stone and then drank of the well. It was surmounted by the image of a female figure which is described as being 'like the pictures of Callee (Kali), the Black Goddess of Hindustan.' The Catholic priests actually whipped the folk away from the spot, but to no purpose. As Kali and Calleach (pronounced Kalee), are the same Goddess, after all. The whips of the priests can never turn what was, into what was not; nor can failure of memory. According to David Kinsley,'Hindu Goddesses',UCLA 1988', Kali was essentially a Bengali Figure but was popular with the ordinary and tribal peoples. However in The Ramayana she is associated with Sita.' In the case of Sita, Kali appears as her fierce, terrible, bloodthirsty aspect when Rama, on his return to India after defeating Ravana, is confronted with such a terrible monster the he freezes in fear. Sita transformed into Kali, handily defeats the demon. p 119. This indicates that the world was once before a 'Global Village', for it is my guess that the Indo-European Celts didn't bring Calleach to Ireland, but that she existed there for millenia, probably amongst some of the first settlers. Now the Irish have two Goddesses in common with Dravidia, Danu and Calleach, indicating a common source of dispersal. It is also interesting that in SS when Swami was talking about the'festival of lights', He mentions that " we used to live nearer the pole',hence the lights. He means the Andhras presumably. ( an earlier pole-shift and migration?) Love and Sai Ram, Tony. ===== http://members.xoom.com/aoclery/ (glossary incl?) Keep on truckin-Chant the Gayatri! Breathe So----Ham! "God is formless. In order to merge in the formless God, you have to give up identification with the body." "There is only one 'Soul' and 'That' is God." Sai Baba. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 13, 1999 Report Share Posted November 13, 1999 Tony O'Clery wrote: > > Tony O'Clery <aoclery > > Namaste All, > > I think that Ireland was probably settled by first or > early generation Atlantean refugees; At least 9,000 > years ago. Atlantean spiritual knowledge came from the > motherland Mu. India was part of Mu as was Australia > etc. This is all recorded in the Hindu Puranas > although they use different names for these > continents. The Celtic Indo-Aryans therefore brought > knowledge perhaps from the same source, although > circuitously. > > The following is a re-print from "HINDUISM TODAY" > -MAY, 1994 <snip> Absolutely fascinating Tony, I'm sure there's a real cultural connection there, the only question as you point out is how it arose. I think historians (because they are so written word oriented) don't give enough credit to the power of oral cultures to preserve lore from generation to generation over thousands of years. This is a reason they placed such a high value on truth telling, any embellishments or "improvements" to the ancient stories would soon lead to them being lost. I also imagine there was more long distance travel in the prehistoric world than we know, with certain individuals then as now just born with wanderlust who probably wandered around for years, over thousands of miles, learning stories from different people and telling them to other people. Such people would be welcomed, the traditions of honouring and feeding guests seem to be common too, even people who might have a dispute with their immediate neighbours would have no reason not to welcome a traveller from afar. namaste, andrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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