Jesus and mistranslations.

[Guest guest]

Zenbob wrote:

>Being Jewish, Jesus would have kept Kosher laws, and

cleaned

accordingly, but

no Kosher law forbids the eating of fish, if properly

clean, ox, beef,

or

even poultry.

 

Please desist from revising wha<

 

Namaste Zenbob.et al.

 

I stick by claim of mistranslations, not all texts

were in Aramaic.

 

Secondly Jesus was not an Orthodox Jew, but was raised

in the tradition of the Essenes, as were his mother

and father.

 

Please don't deceive yourself.

 

Love Tony.

 

=====

http://members.xoom.com/aoclery/ (glossary incl?)

 

Keep on truckin-Chant the Gayatri! Breathe So----Ham!

 

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[Guest guest]

On Sun, 28 Nov 1999 16:53:31 -0800 (PST) Tony O'Clery <aoclery

writes:

> Tony O'Clery <aoclery

>

> Zenbob wrote:

> >Being Jewish, Jesus would have kept Kosher laws, and

> cleaned

> accordingly, but

> no Kosher law forbids the eating of fish, if properly

> clean, ox, beef,

> or

> even poultry.

>

> Please desist from revising wha<

>

> Namaste Zenbob.et al.

>

> I stick by claim of mistranslations, not all texts

> were in Aramaic.

 

Originally, they all were

Tony. The use of Koine

Greek was part of the

evangelical efforts of

Paul among the non-Jews

of the Roman Empire,

among whom Greek comprised

a de facto commom tongue.

>

> Secondly Jesus was not an Orthodox Jew,

 

The term "Orthodox Jew" is

comparatively recent and

cannot be meaningfully

applied to the Jews of

Jesus' time and place.

Since he plainly respected

the Mosaic scripture and

was passionately concerned

with the activities at The

Temple in Jerusalem, he was

quite orthodox in the

context of that time and

place. Some historians

have associated him with

the Essene and/or Nazarene

factions, but going by his

teaching approach and much

of the content of his

teachings, he was actually

closer to the (posthumously)

much-maligned Pharisees than

to any other group known to

be extant in Palestine at

the time.

> but was raised

> in the tradition of the Essenes, as were his mother

> and father.

 

With all due respect, Tony,

can you provide any

evidence of this other than

the pronouncements modern,

self-styled authorities?

The counterindications are

strong, in that word

"Essene" does not appear in

either Testament of the

canonical Bible.

>

> Please don't deceive yourself.

 

Good advice to all, always

-- thank you!

>

> Love Tony.

>

Right back atcha!

 

 

http://come.to/realization

http://www.atman.net/realization

http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucemrg.htm

http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucsong.htm

 

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[Guest guest]

Hello,

 

On a lighter note.....years and years ago the nuns told us the story of

Jonah hanging out in the belly of a whale for three days. For some reason

that story bothered the mind of the 6 year old girl....brought up all sorts

of gruesome thoughts along with serious doubts as to the sanity or

truthfulness of the nun. Years later in Rocco Errico's Book LET THERE BE

LIGHT I find out that in Aramaic the language of Jesus and the Bible to be

in the belly of a fish is comparable to our 'being in a pickle'....so Jonah

was essentially in a quandary for three days . Sometimes it is amazing to

realize how much more sense we had as children.

 

Linda

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/28/99 4:53:54 PM Pacific Standard Time,

aoclery writes:

 

<< Secondly Jesus was not an Orthodox Jew, but was raised

in the tradition of the Essenes, as were his mother

and father.

>>

Dear Tony:

 

As a scholar capable of some fairly decent direct translations, I would be

loathe to mistranslate or to deceive myself. The Essenes, despite having a

neat separate name, were Jewish, merely a separate sect, just as today one

may find Hassidic and Conservative Jews living nearby one another in parts of

New York or Los Angeles. The fact that Essenes considered gospels that

commented on Messianic arrival and rescue further locks down the nature of

their religious teachings...remember, Jesus was called "Rabbi" or "Rebbe" not

"Priest."

 

Furthermore, Jesus held the Pascal Supper events, another completely secular

Jewish observance (Passover) and always referred to the Torah ("I come to

fulfill the Law, not change the Law.") As the word used in the original texts

is actually mat Torah, "The Law." Someone who was not Jewish would not refer

to the Torah in this context.

 

I can cite perhaps thousands of instances, as could any other reasonable

scholar to prove that Jesus considered himself to be a Jewish leader. If you

have some spectacular personal blind spot, grudge, ax to grind or

anti-Semitic twist that somehow makes it difficult for you to accept this, no

matter what evidence is discussed, then I am deeply saddened. It is

doubtless that Jesus was Jewish, it is also, I think, easy to demonstrate

that he was also quite familiar with Gnostic, Essene, Greek Mystery School

Teachings, and even Buddhism, if one studies his original teachings

carefully. But, merely because he was a brilliant scholar, well traveled and

comfortable with a wide variety of philosophies and traditions does not in

any way disqualify him from being Jewish, Kosher and following Kosher laws.

He makes a point of not only following Kosher laws, but also of explaining

the necessity and meaning of some of these laws to followers who would

"blindly" copy actions without understanding the intent or inner meaning of

the law.

 

Of course, we all know that John the Baptist was the first Southern Baptist,

so I suppose he was not Jewish. LOL

 

Finally, from a traditional Jewish blood lineage basis, since Miryam (Mary)

was Syrian and Jewish (Hebrew), then Jesus, legally was also Jewish, since

this is based on Maternal Lineal rules. Even if Jesus had been agnostic

(which he was not), he would have been a Jewish agnostic.

 

 

Blessings

Love,

 

Zenbob

[Guest guest]

Dear Bruce:

 

Thanks for the supportive documentation. I am glad that I am not the only

historically armed literary wizard in the group!

 

Excellent details. Please also note my reply.

 

Blessings

Love,

 

Zenbob