Guest guest Posted December 1, 1999 Report Share Posted December 1, 1999 Namaste Nasir et al, Nasir it all very subjective and depends on the contents of your mind beliefs etc. Having said that let me say this. I have been in the habit of 'visiting', friends and relatives who have died. It is something that I learnt or was triggered in India. I usually find that I can talk to them whilst they are still in their vital double body, just as you can at this level. However they drop this body and go through the second death after a few days or more, in these cases anyway. Sometimes other beings come to meet them. I usually find the shell of their vital bodies, then I know they have moved on. After this it is more difficult to contact them and requires more 'meditation'. In some circumstances , if they were spiritual and have gone to a higher plane. I found some in a kind of 'spiritual school' preparing for when the reincarnate. These didn't have a human form but amorphous light etc. Others had created a world, on a lower plane, much like the one they had left, it depends on the person. These on the lower planes had a body imaged in what they used in life on this planet. Hope this helps you, you go were your mind goes! The initial period in the border-plane bardo is the closest and they need a lot of prayer whilst in there, it seems to help them move on. In my experience nobody stayed in there for more than a week. However there are lost souls and pretas or ghost that can hang around. Love Tony. P.S. Does anyone else have similar experiences?????? ===== http://members.xoom.com/aoclery/ (glossary incl?) Keep on truckin-Chant the Gayatri! Breathe So----Ham! "God is formless. In order to merge in the formless God, you have to give up identification with the body." "There is only one 'Soul' and 'That' is God." Sai Baba. Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Shopping: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 1, 1999 Report Share Posted December 1, 1999 In a message dated 12/1/99 11:38:00 AM Pacific Standard Time, aoclery writes: << Hope this helps you, you go were your mind goes! The initial period in the border-plane bardo is the closest and they need a lot of prayer whilst in there, it seems to help them move on. In my experience nobody stayed in there for more than a week. However there are lost souls and pretas or ghost that can hang around. >> Dear Tony: Strangely, in this matter, I tend to agree almost completely with you Tony. I think the prayer or meditation on behalf of the departed is quite helpful, but most necessary for those who have had a rough transition or disturbing death, where their consciousness may not fully appreciate the transition that has actually happened. I am a firm believer in loving contact prior to "demise" for all people and their families, and for at least a week to a month of meditation, prayer or "positive loving thought" directed toward the transitioning soul after they have made the change of life state into the more immortal version. Blessings Love, Zenbob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 1, 1999 Report Share Posted December 1, 1999 In a message dated 12/1/99 10:15:15 PM Pacific Standard Time, fisher1 writes: << He said a frequent problem is that the dying person simply wants to talk about it... and often there's no one in the family who can just sit down and talk about it without getting upset. The usual responses would be, "Don't think like that!" "Don't talk like that!" and "You're going to be fine!" So what the dying person often needs is just someone who can accept the truth and talk calmly and matter-of-factly about the situation and about dying. >> Dear Dharma: Excellent perspective! I agree. More folk should consider this view before "shutting out" the soon to be eternal among us. Love, Blessings, Zenbob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 1, 1999 Report Share Posted December 1, 1999 Hi Zenbob, >Strangely, in this matter, I tend to agree almost completely with you Tony. >I think the prayer or meditation on behalf of the departed is quite helpful, >but most necessary for those who have had a rough transition or disturbing >death, where their consciousness may not fully appreciate the transition that >has actually happened. I am a firm believer in loving contact prior to >"demise" for all people and their families, and for at least a week to a >month of meditation, prayer or "positive loving thought" directed toward the >transitioning soul after they have made the change of life state into the >more immortal version. Yes, good advice! My husband worked as a minister, and he said in his experience people who are dying over a period of time usually accept it and turn toward it. He said a frequent problem is that the dying person simply wants to talk about it... and often there's no one in the family who can just sit down and talk about it without getting upset. The usual responses would be, "Don't think like that!" "Don't talk like that!" and "You're going to be fine!" So what the dying person often needs is just someone who can accept the truth and talk calmly and matter-of-factly about the situation and about dying. Love, Dharma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 1999 Report Share Posted December 2, 1999 Namaste brother Tony, > ---------- > Tony O'Clery[sMTP:aoclery] > Thursday, December 02, 1999 2:36 AM > Harshasatsangh > Cc: Kundalini > After death for Nasir! > > Tony O'Clery <aoclery > > Namaste Nasir et al, > > Nasir it all very subjective and depends on the > contents of your mind beliefs etc. Having said that > let me say this. I have been in the habit of > 'visiting', friends and relatives who have died. It > is something that I learnt or was triggered in India. > I usually find that I can talk to them whilst they are > still in their vital double body, just as you can at > this level. However they drop this body and go through > the second death after a few days or more, in these > cases anyway. Sometimes other beings come to meet > them. I usually find the shell of their vital bodies, > then I know they have moved on. > Interesting, may you visit me when i died? :-) > After this it is more difficult to contact them and > requires more 'meditation'. In some circumstances , > if they were spiritual and have gone to a higher > plane. I found some in a kind of 'spiritual school' > preparing for when the reincarnate. > Could you learn the teaching of that 'spiritual school' ? > These didn't have > a human form but amorphous light etc. Others had > created a world, on a lower plane, much like the one > they had left, it depends on the person. These on the > lower planes had a body imaged in what they used in > life on this planet. > > Hope this helps you, you go were your mind goes! > Sure it help me, but i don't think i'm ready for death yet. :-) Do you know the best place to go? > The > initial period in the border-plane bardo is the > closest and they need a lot of prayer whilst in there, > it seems to help them move on. In my experience nobody > stayed in there for more than a week. However there > are lost souls and pretas or ghost that can hang > around. > I think this one is most important thing to learn. What do you do when someone die? i mean in detail, the words to use in pray or may be you have a mantra to help them move on? Thanks for sharing this. Om mani padme hum, Nasir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 1999 Report Share Posted December 2, 1999 Hello Nasir, >> After this it is more difficult to contact them and >> requires more 'meditation'. In some circumstances , >> if they were spiritual and have gone to a higher >> plane. I found some in a kind of 'spiritual school' >> preparing for when the reincarnate. >> >Could you learn the teaching of that 'spiritual school' ? Many people are aware of being in a "spiritual school" during their sleep... it may seem like a dream. If you have such a dream, try to remember what you learned. >> These didn't have >> a human form but amorphous light etc. Others had >> created a world, on a lower plane, much like the one >> they had left, it depends on the person. These on the >> lower planes had a body imaged in what they used in >> life on this planet. >> >> Hope this helps you, you go were your mind goes! >> >Sure it help me, but i don't think i'm ready for death yet. :-) >Do you know the best place to go? Up into the light. Into the Clear Light. The All... Brahman. In the Tibetan book of the Six Yogas of Naropa, after the Yoga (or Doctrine) of the After-Death State comes the chapter on the sixth yoga: pho-wa, consciousness-transference. It begins: [PART I. THE THREE TRANSFERENCES] (1) The sixth doctrine, Pho-wa, consisteth of three transferences: the Best, or the Transference into the Dharma-Kaya; the Middling, or the Transference into the Sambhoga-Kaya; and the Last, or the Transference into the Nirmana-Kaya [or the Taking of Divine Rebirth]. (2) The first, or Best, or the Transference into the Dharma-Kaya, consisteth of realizing the Clear Light during the first stage of the Bardo. (3) The second, the Middling, or the Transference into the Sambhoga-Kaya, consisteth of the rising up in the United Divine Body during the Bardo. (4) The third, the Last, or the Transference into the Nirmana-Kaya, consisteth of taking Divine Rebirth. (5) Although these may be looked upon as being three differing results, nevertheless the selected teachings for guidance on the Path [by which these three results are attained] are not three different teachings [but one and the same system of teachings]. In the _Bardo Thodol_ and in the chapter on that yoga, the process of dying and how the yogin is to manage it is described in considerable detail. The chapter on Pho-wa gives further instructions. These teachings are for the yogin to learn _in this life_. Then at death he will know where he is going and how to go there. It is said that only the yogin who has gone into the Clear Light during this life will be able to do it at death. Nevertheless, the instructions are read to everyone, on the chance that someone might, through great love... faith... grace... attain the Clear Light. >> The >> initial period in the border-plane bardo is the >> closest and they need a lot of prayer whilst in there, >> it seems to help them move on. In my experience nobody >> stayed in there for more than a week. However there >> are lost souls and pretas or ghost that can hang >> around. >> >I think this one is most important thing to learn. What do you do when >someone die? i mean in detail, the words to use in pray or may be you have >a mantra to help them move on? All religions and traditions have their own rituals and prayers. A Jewish friend of mine went to prayer at the temple every morning for a year after his mother died, to say special prayers for her. The Tibetan _Bardo Thodol_ is read to the departed one through the days thought to be sufficient to return into rebirth, as a guide all the way. In _Tibetan Yoga and Secret Doctrines_, Evans-Wentz also gives another book on Pho-wa. Included in that is a section on "The Transference of the Consciousness of One Deceased." At the top of the page it says, "The Rite for the Dead." This is instructions for meditation to help one who has died. In a footnote, Evans-Wentz says: > As explained in _The Tibetan Book of the Dead_ [_Bardo Thodol_], pp. >86-7, this ritual should be used by a qualified Lama for the purpose of >setting free the consciousness of a person at the point of death, and thus >making unnecessary the reading of the _Bardo Thodol_: 'If the Transference >hath been effectually employed, there is no need to read this [_Bardo_] >Thodol.' I think the most important thing is to keep sending love. Love, Dharma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 1999 Report Share Posted December 2, 1999 ZEN2WRK wrote: > > ZEN2WRK > > In a message dated 12/1/99 10:15:15 PM Pacific Standard Time, > fisher1 writes: > > << He said a frequent problem is that the dying person simply > wants to talk about it... and often there's no one in the family who can > just sit down and talk about it without getting upset. The usual responses > would be, "Don't think like that!" "Don't talk like that!" and "You're > going to be fine!" So what the dying person often needs is just someone > who can accept the truth and talk calmly and matter-of-factly about the > situation and about dying. > >> > Dear Dharma: > > Excellent perspective! I agree. More folk should consider this view before > "shutting out" the soon to be eternal among us. > > > > Love, > Blessings, > > Zenbob > I agree too, and this is a great gift that the dying person can give to the person who can listen, the story of those final steps in coming to terms with soon coming death, understanding, acceptance. I spent weeks at my father's side as he lived through a terminal illness, and I am deeply grateful to him for that time. love, andrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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