Guest guest Posted December 1, 1999 Report Share Posted December 1, 1999 Namaste All, Zenbob,et al, Zenbob wrote:- >I can cite perhaps thousands of instances, as could any other reasonable scholar to prove that Jesus considered himself to be a Jewish leader. If you have some spectacular personal blind spot, grudge, ax to grind or anti-Semitic twist that somehow makes it difficult for you to accept this, no matter what evidence is discussed, then I am deeply saddened. It is doubtless that Jesus was Jewish, it is also, I think, easy to demonstrate < Tony's Answer: Who said He wasn't Jewish? All I said was that Jesus was not an 'Orthodox Jew', He could have been a Sadducee or Pharisee even but He wasn't He was raised as an Essene.(expectancy) For this you suggest that I may be anti-Semitic???? The Essenes were not all totally Jewish there was a mix, anyway that's something else. Remember there was a lot of cross-fertilisation going on since at least 250.B.C with Asoka's Buddhist missionaries, then there is Alexander,with his Hindu influence, the schools at Heliopolis etc. If the Truth doesn't fit the 'University Template', that is unfortunate. I suggest you read Roerich on the Jesus/Isa, Abhedananda, Nag Hammadis, and perhaps you should also try Edgar Cayce and correlate with what has already been discovered and translated. I think you will find that many in the Catholic Church are also of this opinion,not all though. Love Tony. ===== http://members.xoom.com/aoclery/ (glossary incl?) Keep on truckin-Chant the Gayatri! Breathe So----Ham! "God is formless. In order to merge in the formless God, you have to give up identification with the body." "There is only one 'Soul' and 'That' is God." Sai Baba. Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Shopping: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 1, 1999 Report Share Posted December 1, 1999 In a message dated 12/1/99 10:13:10 AM Pacific Standard Time, aoclery writes: << Nag Hammadis, and perhaps you should also try Edgar Cayce and correlate with what has already been discovered and translated. I think you will find that many in the Catholic Church are also of this opinion,not all though. >> Dear Tony; Been there, done that. Sorry if my comments touched a nerve, but I kept getting revisionist vibes, and I am sad to say, many who support these revisions wish to paint Jesus as a secular Essene or Gnostic Christian, far ahead of the development of the "Christian movement." I have read the Nag Hammadi and other sources in detail. I find nothing that contradicts my basic comments. That Jesus, as I mentioned earlier, was widely read, scholarly and drew upon wide philosophical teachings in order to move his audiences is no doubt true. I have not said otherwise, if you double check my Email. But, he was Kosher in his laws and diet, and this meant being able to slaughter and clean animals for sacrifice, supper and feast. Furthermore, just as a side note, whether Jesus was or wasn't "Orthodox" in his Hebrew/Jewish traditions does not in any way alter his dietary habits, per se. We have ample evidence of his diet, just from the Loaves and Fishes story. Leviticus, which you quote, details specific Kosher laws for diet and clearly defines which meats were clean and which were unclean. Cloven hoof or split hoof animals are unclean: goat, pig, camel. Solid hoof are clean: horse, sheep, ox, cattle. There is, of course even more, regarding how an animal is properly and respectfully butchered, killed, sacrificed, how the food is kept clean, etc., which still serve as excellent safe guidelines for food handling. Why would God, via Moses, as an instrument of God's laws, suggest not eating meat, when most animals created (by God) eat either meat, or a combination thereof? Yes, there are more "meat eating" creatures on earth than vegetarian. All lower order organisms devour single celled creatures (vast majority), insects have a huge proportion of meat eaters vs. pure vegetable eaters, fish are primarily meat eaters, etc., etc. Why then would humans be forbidden this? Again, check Leviticus, as clearly, it indicates humans are allowed certain clean animals for diet. Again, sorry if I might have suggested a variation in your thinking that you are not guilty of...it was merely a concern, not meant as a slur. By the by, I was raised as a Roman Catholic, so do not imagine that your education is uniquely different from my early religious training. Merry Christmas... HoHoHo... Blessings, Zenbob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2000 Report Share Posted January 4, 2000 >ZEN2WRK > > >Re: Accusations instead of answers! >Wed, 1 Dec 1999 23:33:58 EST > >In a message dated 12/1/99 10:13:10 AM Pacific Standard Time, >aoclery writes: > ><< >Dear Tony; > >, was > But, he was Kosher in his laws and diet, and this >meant being able to slaughter and clean animals for sacrifice, supper and >feast. > >Furthermore, just as a side note, whether Jesus was or wasn't "Orthodox" in >his Hebrew/Jewish traditions does not in any way alter his dietary habits, >per se. We have ample evidence of his diet, just from the Loaves and >Fishes >story. > >Leviticus, which you quote, details specific Kosher laws for diet and >clearly >defines which meats were clean and which were unclean. Cloven hoof or >split >hoof animals are unclean: goat, pig, camel. Solid hoof are clean: horse, >sheep, ox, cattle. There is, of course even more, regarding how an animal >is >properly and respectfully butchered, killed, sacrificed, how the food is >kept >clean, etc., which still serve as excellent safe guidelines for food >handling. > >fish are primarily meat eaters, etc., etc. Why then would humans be >forbidden this? Again, check Leviticus, as clearly, it indicates humans >are >allowed certain clean animals for diet. > e >Merry Christmas... >HoHoHo... > >Blessings, > >Zenbob Sorry i am responding so late to this thread, i am just going thru my harsha mail now, which i have been throwing into a folder unread. One point--you seem to equate being kosher with the necessity to eat(kosher) meat--actually, the easiest kosher diet to keep is a vegan one!!(no problem with mixing the milk and the meat!) When observant Orthodox Jews in Philadelphia and environs wish to go out to eat, about the only restaurants that are approved by the council of Rabbis that certify a restaurant as kosher, are the 3 excellent Chinese vegetarian ones in Chinatown!!(one of which is co-owned by an observant Jew!) who knows whether Jesus was a vegetarian or not??--i think some of the essenes were..the vegetarian ideal was definitely floating around the ancient world..on the other hand, i think Jesus said something when instructing his disciples before sending them out "on the road" about eating whatever was offered..kind of like the buddhist monks who when they go out to beg, eat whatever is put into their bowl..nora > >------ >All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, >perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside >back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than >the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of >Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is >Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality >of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, >spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to >a. ><< text3.html >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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