Guest guest Posted December 7, 1999 Report Share Posted December 7, 1999 Hello Everyone. Hope all is well. Antoine, I am sorry for your recent loss and apologize if anything said on this list caused you hurt. Diet issues are highly individual and personal and we can change no minds in this way. All we do is demonstrate where we are at with our views on the matter. Let us try to go beyond what goes into our mouths and focus on what comes out of our hearts and minds (to paraphrase Krishnamurti). Truly that is more important for humanity at large. Yoga shastras tell us and we know from experience that desires for food, sex, and sleep, are fundamental and support the natural instinct to survive. All beings have a unique relationships with these desires. Wise regulations of these functions are said to lead to good mental and physical health. Further, the continuous instinctual movement towards self-preservation in all its forms constitutes the most basic core of identity. Bringing the light of awareness and reflecting on this can ease the stress of life. Once I asked my teacher what our basic philosophy is. He replied simply, "Live and let live." God bless you all with all things good and beautiful and peace in your heart With love Harsha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 1999 Report Share Posted December 7, 1999 Harsha (Dr. Harsh K. Luthar) wrote: > > "Harsha (Dr. Harsh K. Luthar)" <hluthar > > Hello Everyone. Hope all is well. Antoine, I am sorry for your recent loss > and apologize if anything said on this list caused you hurt. Diet issues are > highly individual and personal and we can change no minds in this way. Harsha, Thank you for your words, I am the one to blame, in bringing a personal affair, mentioning my aunt on the list, last week. It is a lesson for me to digest. As i felt people from the list eating her life away like million of vampires, during this week. And coming to read the emails of the past week with the tittle "eating my aunt", simply confirm what was felt. I am not here to judge any. But i simply fell like flaming, subtle things that some don't yet see, so they come to see the deepest of their being a bit faster. Mystress Angelique Serpent, once said to me something like that, "the worst possible curse is probably to wish to someone to reach enlightenment in one day". In a way i am hurt hurt, because i feel like cursing you all. Live and let live, is well said. Antoine All > we do is demonstrate where we are at with our views on the matter. Let us > try to go beyond what goes into our mouths and focus on what comes out of > our hearts and minds (to paraphrase Krishnamurti). Truly that is more > important for humanity at large. Yoga shastras tell us and we know from > experience that desires for food, sex, and sleep, are fundamental and > support the natural instinct to survive. All beings have a unique > relationships with these desires. Wise regulations of these functions are > said to lead to good mental and physical health. Further, the continuous > instinctual movement towards self-preservation in all its forms constitutes > the most basic core of identity. Bringing the light of awareness and > reflecting on this can ease the stress of life. Once I asked my teacher what > our basic philosophy is. He replied simply, "Live and let live." > > God bless you all with all things good and beautiful and peace in your heart > With love > Harsha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 1999 Report Share Posted December 7, 1999 Antoine, I am so sorry to hear about your loss. I feel that you are loving others by sharing. Cancer is a hard thing to watch, and imagine what the sufferer is going through. my thoughts and prayers are with you ! peace to you and your family which includes me! love gen Antoine <carrea Harsha (Dr. Harsh K. Luthar) wrote: > > "Harsha (Dr. Harsh K. Luthar)" <hluthar > > Hello Everyone. Hope all is well. Antoine, I am sorry for your recent loss > and apologize if anything said on this list caused you hurt. Diet issues are > highly individual and personal and we can change no minds in this way. Harsha, Thank you for your words, I am the one to blame, in bringing a personal affair, mentioning my aunt on the list, last week. It is a lesson for me to digest. As i felt people from the list eating her life away like million of vampires, during this week. And coming to read the emails of the past week with the tittle "eating my aunt", simply confirm what was felt. I am not here to judge any. But i simply fell like flaming, subtle things that some don't yet see, so they come to see the deepest of their being a bit faster. Mystress Angelique Serpent, once said to me something like that, "the worst possible curse is probably to wish to someone to reach enlightenment in one day". In a way i am hurt hurt, because i feel like cursing you all. Live and let live, is well said. Antoine All > we do is demonstrate where we are at with our views on the matter. Let us > try to go beyond what goes into our mouths and focus on what comes out of > our hearts and minds (to paraphrase Krishnamurti). Truly that is more > important for humanity at large. Yoga shastras tell us and we know from > experience that desires for food, sex, and sleep, are fundamental and > support the natural instinct to survive. All beings have a unique > relationships with these desires. Wise regulations of these functions are > said to lead to good mental and physical health. Further, the continuous > instinctual movement towards self-preservation in all its forms constitutes > the most basic core of identity. Bringing the light of awareness and > reflecting on this can ease the stress of life. Once I asked my teacher what > our basic philosophy is. He replied simply, "Live and let live." > > God bless you all with all things good and beautiful and peace in your heart > With love > Harsha All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 1999 Report Share Posted December 7, 1999 Antoine [carrea] Tuesday, December 07, 1999 12:09 PM Re: Live and let live Antoine <carrea Harsha (Dr. Harsh K. Luthar) wrote: > > "Harsha (Dr. Harsh K. Luthar)" <hluthar > > Hello Everyone. Hope all is well. Antoine, I am sorry for your recent loss > and apologize if anything said on this list caused you hurt. Diet issues are > highly individual and personal and we can change no minds in this way. Harsha, Thank you for your words, I am the one to blame, in bringing a personal affair, mentioning my aunt on the list, last week. It is a lesson for me to digest. As i felt people from the list eating her life away like million of vampires, during this week. And coming to read the emails of the past week with the tittle "eating my aunt", simply confirm what was felt. I am not here to judge any. But i simply fell like flaming, subtle things that some don't yet see, so they come to see the deepest of their being a bit faster. Mystress Angelique Serpent, once said to me something like that, "the worst possible curse is probably to wish to someone to reach enlightenment in one day". In a way i am hurt hurt, because i feel like cursing you all. Live and let live, is well said. Antoine Hello Antoine. I wish you and your family well. I understand that you are hurt. Janpa has a saying, "My tears are in your eyes." If she was here, she would say it, I think. With Love Harsha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 1999 Report Share Posted December 7, 1999 Antoine wrote: "In a way i am hurt hurt, because i feel like cursing you all." Although I did not participate in this conversational thread, I read parts of it - and quickly decided to delete all subsequent posts in the thread without reading them. Yet, I want to tell you that you are in my heart, and I am sorry that this community caused you pain. Peace to you Antoine. love Lynne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 1999 Report Share Posted December 7, 1999 On 12/7/99 at 12:09 PM Antoine wrote: [...] ¤ ¤Mystress Angelique Serpent, once said to me something like that, "the ¤worst possible curse is probably to wish to someone to reach ¤enlightenment in one day". ¤ [...] Enlightenment is just recognition and can be instantaneous, as it doesn't have a cause. Wishing someone moksha/nirvana in a day isn't a curse either; it is a death sentence as the required energy, released in just one day, would fry the brain and carbonize the nerves before the day would be over... Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 1999 Report Share Posted December 8, 1999 At 12:09 PM 12/7/99 -0500, you wrote: >Antoine <carrea > > >I am the one to blame, in bringing a personal affair, mentioning my aunt >on the list, last week. It is a lesson for me to digest. Dear Antoine, Once you have digested it, if you are so inclined, I would appreciate your sharing with me what this lesson has taught you. You say you are to blame by bringing a personal affair to this list....and that makes me cry. I've sat with this question for quite some time now, and I can't see that bringing a personal affair to a list such as this could be 'wrong' or blameworthy. Where is the balance between cherishing another's life, and knowing there is no 'other'? Where is the balance between honoring the suffering of another, and knowing suffering is an 'illusion'? Where is the balance between being open enough to respect another's beliefs, and knowing that beliefs can never be 'It'? Where is this place, dear friend? I'll meet you there. Love, Melody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 1999 Report Share Posted December 14, 1999 Tue, 07 Dec 1999 23:28:08 +0000 "Jan Barendrecht" <kvy9 (AT) xxx (DOT) xxxxxxxx.xx> Re: Live and let live On 12/7/99 at 12:09 PM Antoine wrote: [...] ¤ ¤Mystress Angelique Serpent, once said to me something like that, "the worst possible curse is probably to wish to someone to reach enlightenment in one day". ¤ [...] Enlightenment is just recognition and can be instantaneous, as it doesn't have a cause. Wishing someone moksha/nirvana in a day isn't a curse either; it is a death sentence as the required energy, released in just one day, would fry the brain and carbonize the nerves before the day would be over... Jan Thank you dear unknown friend for stating the nature of my felt pain, as in someway, the focus of so many "deeply already cursed" readers may accelerate the frying of someone that we mention here in words. A bucked may leak or not leak on its path, it does not matter when the world is only a sea. The attachment to wood, instead of the sea, as a perspective, makes one grow flowers along the path. The curse from the living side of wood, seem like a walker steeping on the flower for fun. The curse once the wood is burned and buried, seems like all there is, was and will be. Antoine -- "May we meditate on the effulgent Power of he who is worshipful and as given birth to all worlds. May he direct the rays of our intelligence towards the path of good." A translation of the Gayatri Mantra Through the coming, going, and the balance of life The essential nature which illumines existence is the adorable one May all perceive through subtle intellect the brilliance of enlightenment. A translation of the Gayatri Mantra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 1999 Report Share Posted December 14, 1999 Wed, 08 Dec 1999 12:15:30 -0600 Melody <melody (AT) xxxxxxxxx (DOT) xxxx Re: Live and let live Dear Antoine, "Once you have digested it, if you are so inclined, I would appreciate your sharing with me what this lesson has taught you." Usually those thing take a long time to digest, to allow all the rainbow aspect of it to manifest as the lesson that was taught. My answer to you will probably come in time as a change in a way of life or being, that will come less and less to be noticed to only reflect what is left, simply being, or something like that. "You say you are to blame by bringing a personal affair to this list....and that makes me cry. I've sat with this question for quite some time now, and I can't see that bringing a personal affair to a list such as this could be 'wrong' or blameworthy." It is a good question, is it wrong for a human being to step on an ant? I do not have those answers for you. But i also know that the way one answer differ greatly if one thinks he or she is an ant or a human being in this situation. "Where is the balance between cherishing another's life, and knowing there is no 'other'?" I like this meditation on the arcanum The World, also known as Universe, or Completion in the Osho zen Tarot. ""Now, the card of the tweenty-second arcanum of the Tarot - The World - represent a dancer holding a magic wand in her hand, and a philtre in the other. The wand symbolizes the creative power of realization below that of which is above; she holds it vertically. This is the gesture of actualizing below that which is above - the gesture of sacred art, i.e. the gesture imitating the way in which the divine creative spirit works. ""The arcanum the World has a twofold meaning: it teaches that joy (the wand), i.e. the accordance of rhythms, is at the root of creation; and it warns (the philtre), at the same time of the danger of seeking creative joy instead of for creative truth. "" From Meditation on the Tarot. Anonymous. "Where is the balance between honoring the suffering of another, and knowing suffering is an 'illusion'? "Where is the balance between being open enough to respect another's beliefs, and knowing that beliefs can never be 'It'? "Where is this place, dear friend? I'll meet you there. Maybe its name could be The World... Or the Universe... Or Completion... Who knows really?, to whom is the hand of the one placing the last piece of the puzzle in place? http://pages.infinit.net/carrea/tree/osho/zen022.htm Antoine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 1999 Report Share Posted December 14, 1999 On 12/14/99 at 12:51 PM Antoine wrote: ¤Tue, 07 Dec 1999 23:28:08 +0000 ¤"Jan Barendrecht" <kvy9 (AT) xxx (DOT) xxxxxxxx.xx> ¤Re: Live and let live ¤ ¤On 12/7/99 at 12:09 PM Antoine wrote: ¤ ¤[...] ¤¤ ¤¤Mystress Angelique Serpent, once said to me something like that, "the ¤worst possible curse is probably to wish to someone to reach ¤enlightenment in one day". ¤ ¤[...] ¤Enlightenment is just recognition and can be instantaneous, as it ¤doesn't have a cause. Wishing someone moksha/nirvana in a day isn't a ¤curse either; it is a death sentence as the required energy, released in ¤just one day, would fry the brain and carbonize the nerves before the ¤day would be over... ¤ ¤Jan ¤ ¤Thank you dear unknown friend for stating the nature of my felt pain, as ¤in someway, the focus of so many "deeply already cursed" readers may ¤accelerate the frying of someone that we mention here in words. ¤ ¤A bucked may leak or not leak on its path, it does not matter when the ¤world is only a sea. The attachment to wood, instead of the sea, as a ¤perspective, makes one grow flowers along the path. ¤ ¤The curse from the living side of wood, seem like a walker steeping on ¤the flower for fun. ¤The curse once the wood is burned and buried, seems like all there is, ¤was and will be. ¤ ¤Antoine Perhaps the following article from a Buddhist NG can ease the pain: << HH the Ven. Ajahn Chah wrote: When you see that there's nothing stable or substantial you can rely on, you'll feel wearied and disenchanted. Being disenchanted doesn't mean you're averse though. The mind is clear. It sees that there's nothing to be done to remedy this state of affairs, it's just the way the world is. Knowing in this way, you can let go of attachment, let go with a mind that is neither happy nor sad, but at peace with sankharas through seeing with wisdom their changing nature. Anicca vata sankhara -- all sankharas are impermanent. To put it simply: impermanence is the Buddha. If we see an impermanent phenomenon really clearly, we'll see that it's permanent, permanent in the sense that its subjection to change is unchanging. This is the permanence that living beings possess. There is continual transformation, from childhood through youth to old age, and that very impermanence, that nature to change, is permanent and fixed. If you look at it like that your heart will be at ease. It's not just you that has to go through this, it's everyone. When you consider things thus, you'll see them as wearisome, and disenchantment will arise. Your delight in the world of sense-pleasures will disappear. You'll see that if you have a lot of things, you have to leave a lot behind; if you have few you will leave behind few. Wealth is just wealth, long life is just long life, they're nothing special. When we reach the end of our life, we'll have no choice anyway, we won't be able to take anything with us. So wouldn't it be better to put things down before that? They're just a heavy burden to carry around; why not throw off that load now? Why bother to drag them around? Let go, relax, and let your family look after you. Those who nurse the sick grow in goodness and virtue. One who is sick and giving others that opportunity shouldn't make things difficult for them. If there's a pain or some problem or other, let them know, and keep the mind in a wholesome state. One who is nursing parents should fill his or her mind with warmth and kindness, not get caught in aversion. This is the one time when you can repay the debt you owe them. From your birth through your childhood, as you've grown up, you've been dependent on your parents. That we are here today is because our mothers and fathers have helped us in so many ways. We owe them an incredible debt of gratitude. So today, all of you children and relatives gathered here together, see how your parents become your children. Before, you were their children; now they become yours. They become older and older until they become children again. Their memories go, their eyes don't see so well and their ears don't hear, sometimes they garble their words. Don't let it upset you. All of you nursing the sick must know how to let go. Don't hold on to things, just let go and let them have their own way. When a young child is disobedient, sometimes the parents let it have its own way just to keep the peace, to make it happy. Now your parents are like that child. Their memories and perceptions are confused. Sometimes they muddle up your names, or you ask them to give you a cup and they bring a plate. It's normal, don't be upset by it. Let the patient remember the kindness of those who nurse and patiently endure the painful feelings. Exert yourself mentally, don't let the mind become scattered and agitated, and don't make things difficult for those looking after you. Let those who nurse the sick fill their minds with virtue and kindness. Don't be averse to the unattractive side of the job, to cleaning up mucus and phlegm, or urine and excrement. Try your best. Everyone in the family give a hand. These are the only parents you've got. They gave you life, they have been your teachers, your nurses and your doctors -- they've been everything to you. That they have brought you up, taught you, shared their wealth with you and made you their heirs is the great beneficence of parents. Consequently the Buddha taught the virtues of kataññu and katavedi, of knowing our debt of gratitude and trying to repay it. These two virtues are complementary. If our parents are in need, if they're unwell or in difficulty, then we do our best to help them. This is kataññu-katavedi, it is a virtue that sustains the world. It prevents families from breaking up, it makes them stable and harmonious. Today I have brought you the Dhamma as a gift in this time of illness. I have no material things to give you; there seem to be plenty of those in the house already, and so I give you Dhamma, something which has a lasting worth, something which you'll never be able to exhaust. Having received it from me you can pass it on to as many others as you like and it will never be depleted. That is the nature of Truth. I am happy to have been able to give you this gift of Dhamma, and I hope it will give you strength to deal with your pain. -Phra Ajahn Chah >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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