Two Swamis and 40 Verses (28-40) on Reality

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One morning a famous swami of Ahmedabad arrived at the ashram. I understood

he had many wealthy disciples and was himself attired in a costly silk,

ochre-colored cloth. He also had several pieces of luggage, which clearly

indicated he was a man of some means. The swami came into the Guest House

for Gentlemen and introduced himself to me. He wanted to know when he could

see the Maharshi. I told him at 10 a.m. I would be going to the hall and he

could accompany me and at that time I would introduce him to the Maharshi.

 

During that period, between 10 and 11 a.m. every morning in the Old Hall,

Devaraja Mudaliar, Munagala Venkataramiah and I were going through

Venkataramiah's English translation of a Tamil scripture. Bhagavan would

open and hold the Tamil book in his hand and we would read the English

translation for each verse. Then we would discuss it until we found it

acceptable to Bhagavan.

 

The swami entered the hall with me at 10 a.m. and I introduced him to

Bhagavan. He was fluent in Sanskrit and other languages, and also was well

versed in all the scriptures. He inquired if he was allowed to ask a

question. The consent was given and he asked Bhagavan if Ishwara, the

personal God, actually existed. The Maharshi replied with one of his

standard rejoinders: "We do not know about Ishwara or whether he exists or

not. But what we do know is that we exist. Find out who that 'I' is that

exists. That is all that is required."

 

The swami was not satisfied with this answer and continued to discuss the

matter, quoting from various scriptures. Bhagavan then said, "If the

scriptures say all this about it, why question me further ?"

 

This also was not acceptable to the swami and he proceeded with more

elucidation, at which point Bhagavan cut him off by turning to us and

saying, "Come on. Let us begin our work." It is needless to say that the

swami became quite annoyed and soon left the hall.

 

Later in the day I met him and he told me that my Maharshi doesn't seem to

know very much. I simply replied, "Yes." And although this visitor was

originally planning on staying for three days, he cut his visit short and

left that very afternoon, without ever going back into the hall to see the

Maharshi. Bhagavan later asked me what the swami said before leaving. When I

told him, he simply smiled.

 

I remember when another similar incident occurred with a famous swami from

Bombay, brought to the ashram by Mr. Bose. Although this swami too was

well-known, had numerous disciples and was always given high honors wherever

he went, in Bhagavan's presence he was just like everyone else: given no

special seat, no special attention and made to sit on the floor with all the

others.

 

When the swami had asked his first question, Bhagavan remained silent for a

long time. He must have been wondering why there was no answer. Probably no

one had ever, seemingly, ignored him like that before. The question was:

"Which Avatar (incarnation) are you?" After sometime the Mauni (Srinivasa

Rao) came into the hall and Bhagavan said to him, "He wants to know which

Avatar I am. What can I say to him? Some people say I am this and some say I

am that. I have nothing to say about it."

 

This was followed by a barrage of questions from the swami, who asked about

Bhagavan's state of realization, about samadhi, the Bhakti school, etc.

Bhagavan answered him very patiently, point by point. The swami listened and

whether or not he was satisfied is hard for me to say. Before leaving the

hall, the swami touched Bhagavan's couch, joined his palms in salutation and

took leave.

 

In Day by Day with Bhagavan more conversations with this swami have been

recorded. Mr. Bose reported that before the swami boarded his departing

train in town he told him, "I have truly gained something from this visit to

the Maharshi." Bhagavan also commented after his departure, "It will work."

Whenever he made this observation we understood it to mean that the

conversation the person had with Bhagavan will sink in and ultimately have

positive effects.

 

Now verses 38-40 follow.

 

38. As long as a man is the doer, he also reaps the fruit of his deeds, but,

as soon as he realizes the Self through enquiry as to who is the doer his

sense of being the doer falls away and the triple karma2 is ended. This is

the state of eternal Liberation.

 

39. Only so long as one considers oneself bound, do thoughts of bondage and

Liberation continue. When one enquires who is bound the Self is realized,

eternally attained, and eternally free. When thought of bondage comes to an

end, can thought of Liberation survive?

 

40. If it is said, that Liberation is of three kinds, with form or without

form or with and without form, then let me tell you that the extinction of

three forms of Liberation is the only true Liberation.