Still not looking for sympathy re S.B.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 01/14/2000 1:06:28 PM Eastern Standard Time,

aoclery writes:

 

<<

I really wonder where the line between action and

non-action is, and whether one should help others or

just walk away on to one's own path.

>>

 

Dear Tony,

 

Am sharing with you my own experience, and

I have different language for the same concepts but

am going to use the language I know so as to stay

clear for me. This is in no way at all intended to tell

you about you, I am simply going to share my own

experience, okay? :-)

 

I travelled the Qabalah Tree with a Teacher and a

Group of 10 people, (for a few years)

none of us knew each other,

and we used screen names, this was done for

several reasons, most obvious, so, I won't get into that

as it gets boring to recant obvious details.

 

The energy went very high and we lost a couple of

members, most due to ego blowouts where they thought

they were incarnations of Ascended Masters and the

Teacher had to shut down the energy and then

we had to begin again. This is very common in kundalini

energy work, you see lots of "gurus" do energy blowouts

with material things accumulating and attracting of harems

and such, it happens with loss of humility which is one of

those "tests" that sometimes get "failed" when the lifetimes

are looked at from only the short-run "logical" perspective.

 

Last Spring, I left the Group for a number of reasons, one

being as you said, there is an energy inter-network, you

termed it a mind-joining, which is beyond words and some

of the energies of the Group were very erratic and I

couldn't handle it and wanted peace and also needed

to do some work on myself. It was very difficult to get

back down to calm and then I met someone and the energy

charged, we did Tree travel and there I was in bliss for a

few months which was rather fun but i've regrounded for

awhile, to be honest I love the play of it all and will have

to let go of that at some point, i think now.

 

Anyway, the most important point being, that when I left

I was too connected to the personality of the Teacher,

and I hadn't gone far enough in clearing my emotional

astral self to connect with her on a higher level.

 

I felt the energies interlink again over Christmas and decided

to talk with her online and see what was up with her and

with the Group. It turned out that most of the Group had

a very rough year, worked through alot of Astral clearing on

their emotions, and now seems to be coming through to the

other side. She and I also had a very smooth and clear new

link move into place, a nonemotional, nonintellectual link,

it is as though those portions have cleared.

 

Now, all of this takes place without our knowing each other

on a personal physical plane and we don't connect with

our identities (egos) to keep everyone humble and working

hard. THis is not to say we will never meet, but we will not

meet for awhile yet as there is still work to be done and we

may never meet, to be honest I don't care whether or not

we do.

 

I am sharing this because there were several energetic

realizations that occurred for me recently and one was

this disconnect on personality, emotionalized, or intellectualized

level and moving into a soul level.

 

Like you, I don't wish to argue with anyone here about this,

am not interested in debate because these are not intellectual

concepts for the mind, they are energetic pathworking

and to give it words at all is sometimes beyond simplistic.

 

On action, compassion is most often wise, but i just had an

infection taken open and the lance was certainly worth it :-)

sometimes the seperation from another is essential for oneself

and for another... but in the end, the best thing, for example,

that my son could do for the world is to be the very best he

can be at being himself, BE, simply BE all of him.

 

Simply Sharing,

~ bo ~

[Guest guest]

Namaste All, To NDS copy to Harshasatsangh.

 

First of all I was not expounding my regrets or

whatever, I was answering a question and revealing

what was in my mind. Perhaps it is an 'interesting

case'.

 

I think one has to differentiate to some extent

between gurus. I understand the concept that the Guru

is God. Hopefully the guru is 'realised', and not an

imposter with rather questionable practices. I would

say that unless one has totally surrendered to a guru,

then one can only intellectualise about the

experience. Rather like a single person being a

marriage counsellor. I also understand a bad teacher

can give good lessons. Sai Baba did for he taught

nothing new, it was all forms of vedanta.

 

The problem lies in trust, for if in the end the guru

is found to be a fraud and or pedophile, then for many

the baby goes out with the bathwater. Especially if

they have no idea about adwaita etc. For following a

guru is seeing him everywhere and in every action and

in every thought. It is using the name interchangeable

with the concept God. So we have sai-cat, sai-dog,

sai-friend, sai-tree, etc etc. Every action and

reaction is attributed in some way to the influence of

the Guru. He is Saguna Brahman. My problem was that

for the first three years, I was completely dualistic

and laid down lots of samskaras. It wasn't until I

started to read Ramana Maharshi that I started on the

path to jnana. I read the Teachings of R. M. by

D.Godman and didn't grasp it all, for I must be a bit

slow. So I read it again figuring that if I programme

it into my mind then it will be there when I

understand. I read it three times until I started to

understand then I went on to the adwaitic texts etc.

 

With the guru it is really is a merging of minds. So

if that becomes one's mind and it is destroyed, then

unless one is realised and doesn't have any connection

to the mind---then what??

 

I also understand that all is illusion and all is one

etc. However it is real enough whilst one is in it as

Sankara said. One could say that the teacher and the

teachings are separated. However this is how one gets

hooked so to speak. For how could an imposter utter

such divine truths? My experience is that they really

are in practice inseparable. I notice some reticence

on my part to read teachings that he is associated

with and prefer more honest vehicles like Maharshi and

Maharaj. I will no doubt get over that as well. I also

am aware that various emotions are happening in my

mind.

 

Many are negative because I and others had invested so

heavily in this person, complete

saranagathi/surrender. I think I understand what an

avatar is, and surrendering to a form that is in

nirvikalpa samadhi all the time is surrendering to

one's own soul. Finding out otherwise is quite

disappointing and no doubt is the ego that is

offended.

 

I know there are some Sai Devotees on this list, ( I

learnt of these lists from the old sainet) without

mentioning them, so I really don't want to get into a

battle with them. (The site is for no rules

extreme-fighting and cathartic venting). I am just

sharing what is happening in this mind right now

that's all. I hope it may be useful to someone. I am

not asking for sympathy or anything like that, I am

just thinking aloud.

 

I really wonder where the line between action and

non-action is, and whether one should help others or

just walk away on to one's own path.

 

The interesting thing about this is that it does leave

one shaken for a while and with a feeling of lower

esteem. Which is probably a good lesson in humility

itself. My problem and many others was that we had

little self esteem in the first place. So now I/We

have returned to the same defect for a while.

 

So as was pointed out to me, life is my/our sadhana. I

understand that it is all a dream but when I fall over

I still injure myself, albeit an illusory injury.

 

It is easy enough to quote the masters and even

intellectually to understand them. But realising what

they are saying really is another thing altogether.

For understanding what they are really saying is

beyond speech and thought, and speech is a poor

substitute. If I am in my vijnanamayakosa then fine,

if I am in my manomayakosa then it is not fine. Most

of what happens on these lists is in the manomayakosa

in my experience.

 

It is the emotionally charged thought that drags one's

consciousness deep into the manomayakosa/mind. When

one meditates one is not aware of one's emotions and

when one returns the feeling of meditating may remain

for a while. Then the thoughts return; usually about

the other people left in there with the bent guru. So

the process of oscillation occurs as it must for all

in samsara. Opinions do not help much for one has to

walk in another's mocassins to understand.

 

Emotionalism may be a closer and even better vehicle

than cool non-dual intellect. For is it not true

that energy is Sakti and close to the Devi or

Praneaswara. Is it not also true that the Grace of the

Devi leads to Siva. It seems to me that no matter how

non-dual our thinking becomes we cannot do it without

the Saguna Brahman.

 

Telling me I have two days to stop regretting is like

saying to me after my first wife died at a young age,

she's dead now you have two days to get over it. I

posted on the nondualitysalon to see what kind of

people were on here, how intellectuals think and

operate. There seems to be a lot more compassion on

the Harshasatsangh, there can be no realisation

without compassion I feel. However I wasn't looking

for that, it's a good job isn't it???? Did I learn

anything? Yes I did, Bhaja Govindam----Sankaracharya.

And not to go looking for Sai Babas, but I was a

spiritual/mental child and acted like a child.

 

 

Om Namah Sivaya, Tony.

 

 

=====

Keep on truckin-Chant the Gayatri! Breathe So----Ham!

 

 

ASATHO MA SATH GAMAYA, From the unreal lead me to the real,

THAMASO MA JYOTHIR GAMAYA, From darkness, lead me to light,

MRITHYOR MA AMRITAM GAMAYA.From death, lead me to immortality.

OM, SHANTI SHANTI SHANTI. Om, Peace Peace Peace.

 

 

Talk to your friends online with Messenger.

http://im.

[Guest guest]

P.S.

 

As Glo pointed out to me, that Harsha says,

a good litmus test of a guru, is does s~he make

me dependent or turn me back within myself

to find the answers ... perhaps within the meditation

space between God and I, there within life and

God. A good guru creating independence rather

than dependence.

 

Son jumping up and down here to leave, :-)

time to go *g*

~ bo ~