Guru and action worshipping

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 01/18/2000 5:41:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, rbi

writes:

 

<<

Not original: there are numerous Sages who have advanced a

'multi-dimensional' perspective. Life is so diverse. The animalistic

survival instinct in us wants to see sameness and resist that which is

different. This lower instinct creates conflict among us over the very

diversity that might enrich us.

>>

Ta Da! Yes, thank you :-) we got the sameness part

a very long time ago and we get that same message

ad infinitum, i think we heard it now.

 

 

L*L*L

Bo

[Guest guest]

> "Petros" <xristos

>Re: Guru and action worshipping

>

>> Any question must be examined from several different perspectives. Let's

>> consider that there are many diverse paths to Spirit, and there are

>> different stages on these paths.

>

>That's original.

 

Not original: there are numerous Sages who have advanced a

'multi-dimensional' perspective. Life is so diverse. The animalistic

survival instinct in us wants to see sameness and resist that which is

different. This lower instinct creates conflict among us over the very

diversity that might enrich us.

>> Sri Ramana Maharshi's comment does serve some, it seems inspired &

>> insightful. However, it may not best support those people who

>> have an innate

>> skill at transcending through the selfless service & giving of activity,

>> karma yoga.

>

>If you had more familiarity with Ramana Maharshi, you would know that his

>instructions were almost always addressed to the particular needs of the

>individuals that came to him with questions. He rarely put forward general

>statements intended to be applied by everyone.

 

I agree. In fact the same could be said about the words of anyone: there are

intented for a particular audience at a particular time & place. Words &

concepts are limited, they are just grist for the mill. I think his comment

is inspiring, but not universal.

>Also, it seems rather clear from the context that the comment about

>"activity" refers to the sort of ritualistic tasks that many gurus tend to

>give to their disciples, such as the chanting of certain mantras, japa, or

>things of that nature. I don't think seva (service) is being directly

>addressed.

 

Under appropriate conditions for appropriate people mantras, japa might be

useful. I don't think we can rule them out entirely. Yet certainly pitfalls

are present. ALL forms of practice have pitfalls. I think Maharshi's

warning should be heeded.

>> Consider the life of Mother Teresa for example. Should we have advised

>> Mother Teresa to cease activity? HA!

>

>I would not have had the obnoxious audacity to try to advise this great

>woman about *anything.* Not that she would ask anyone for advice about her

>spiritual life! She would probably not fall under the category of

"seeker,"

>which is who Ramana is addressing his advice specifically to. Mother

Theresa

>had found her true path and was living it long before I was even born. She

>has been criticized, perhaps not unjustly, about her political and

>theological motivations, but that is not at issue here.

>

>If, on the other hand, someone came to me who was obviously suffering as a

>result of his/her personal search, and was attempting to "develop

>spiritually" via social service or things of that sort, not operating out

of

>pure motives, then one might want to give that person Ramana's advice.

 

Yes, perhaps one test is if 'social service' is being done with personal

gain as the motive. And 'gain' can be very subtle thing. Often we do things

that might be considered 'good' from a cultural viewpoint, and yet our

action fails to achieve the highest good.

>Thanks for the ad, too.

>

>P.

 

Thanks for your welcome.

 

Regarding Tarabilda at www.newu.org, his widow continues to carry on his

work with inspiration, however, she is very private and responds only to the

most sincere inquiries.

 

Roger Isaacs

www.newu.org

[Guest guest]

> "Petros" <xristos

>RE: Re: Guru and action worshipping

>> "Roger Isaacs" <rbi

.....

>> I agree. In fact the same could be said about the words of

>> anyone: there are

>> intented for a particular audience at a particular time & place. Words &

>> concepts are limited, they are just grist for the mill. I think

>> his comment

>> is inspiring, but not universal.

>

>Yes, you raise a very valid point, I think. It is indeed important to

>address the particular needs of individuals, as you note.

 

A favorite example about this:

Imagine you are eating a strawberry and someone is sitting with you who has

never tasted a strawberry. Is there any way that you can transfer the

essence of your taste experience verbally to your friend? No way!

 

This points out how concepts & words always fail to capture essence. The

written or even spoken word is always very limited because information

content is lost when the boundless experience is reduced into concept, and

then more information is lost when the concept is reduced into word.

 

Most or all of us on the quest rely, at first, on information from various

Sages. But we have to _realize_ (pun intended!) that this information is

very limited. At some point we have to take this earnest search for the

Ultimate Reality beyond reliance on authority, even the beyond the inward

authority of our own memory & past experience.

 

If I had to choose one word to describe this process for me it would be:

stillness. The title of one of Barry Long's books: "Stillness is the Way".

But while advertising that book I should probably say that I like

"Meditation: A Foundation Course" better. And because there are many

different approaches to Spirit, I'd expect that only a percentage of people

will share my particular interest.

 

Roger Isaacs

www.newu.org