Guest guest Posted January 23, 2000 Report Share Posted January 23, 2000 Dear , Harking back to the thread on types of samadhi, there was the question, "What's the difference between nirvikalpa samadhi and sahaja samadhi?" Here are some quotes from Krishna Menon (Sri Atmananda of Tivandrum), Ramana Maharshi, Adi Shankara, and Swami Atmananda of the Bharat Sadhu Samaj. In a nutshell here are the differences that you'll find in the quotes below. Though both samadhies are without effort, there are great differences: 1. Nirvikalpa samadhi is a pretty high form of samadhi. Sahaja samadhi is higher. 1. Nirvikalpa samadhi is temporary, even if it lasts a very long time. Sahaja samadhi is irreversible. 2. Nirvikalpa samadhi is witnessed by the mind. Sahaja samadhi is not witnessed by anything (perhaps "other people") 3. Nirvikalpa samadhi is a passing state of the mind. Sahaja samadhi is the "natural state," but there's not anything that it is a state *of*. Rather, it is our true nature. Here are the quotes, by the following authors: (1.) Krishna Menon, Sri Atmananda of Tivandrum-- One of Advaita's greatest dialecticians and philosophers. A powerful teacher who died May 14, 1959. He didn't like publicity, and indeed is not well known. Paul Brunton stayed with him for a month, but only after promising not to write about him. Quote from NOTES ON SPIRITUAL DISCOURSES OF SREE ATMANANDA, Part I, 1951: "According to certain sastras Nirvikalpa Samadhi is the ultimate goal. But according to still other sastras there are more other Samadhies yet to be experienced even beyond Nirvikalpa Samadhi. They are Nissankalpa Samadhi, Nirvrithika Samadhi, Nirvasana Samadhi. It must always be borne in mind that Samadhi, of whatever nature it may be, is only for the mind and not for the real "I-Principle." Even when the mind gets absorbed as in the Nirvikalpa state, the real "I-Principle" stands out as its witness, showing thereby that it has no connectin with Samadhi." "...Turiyam is also witnessed by the "I-Principle." From this it is clear that Samadhi by itself cannot take you to the reality. Again Samadhi is a state, and being a state is limited by time. Reality is something transcending time. Therefore until you come to the Sahaja state (Natural state) you cannot claim to be established in the Ultimate Reality. The Samskara that one goes into and domes out of Samadhi has also to be clearly transcended in order that you may reach the Absolute. Therefore Samadhies of any kind only pave the way for your establishing yourself in the Ultimate Reality." === (2.) Ramana Maharshi-- Talks, 16th Oct., 1935: "In sahaja samadhi the activities, vital, and mental, and the three states are destroyed, never to reappear. However, others notice the jnani active, e.g., eating, talking, moving, etc. He is not aware of these activities, whereas others are aware of his activities." Talks, 6th April, 1937: (Response to a question whether 21 days was the longest nirvikalpa samadhi can last) "Samadhi means passing beyond dehatma buddhi (I-am-the-body idea) and non-identification of the body with the Self is a foregone conclusion. There are said to be persons who have lived in nirvikalpa samadhi for a thousand years or more." Talks, 6th April, 1937: "1. Holding onto Reality is Samadhi. 2. Holding onto Reality with effort is Savikalpa Samadhi. 3. Merging in Reality and remaining unaware of the world is Nirvikalpa Samadhi. 4. Merging in Ignorance and remaining unaware of the world is sleep. (Head bends but not in samadhi) 5. Remaining in the primal, pure natural state without effort is Sahaja Nirvikalpa Samadhi." === (3.) Sri Adi Shankaracharya -- Sankara, The Thousand Teachings, Metrical Part, 13.14 (Translated by A.J. Alston): "Therefore, I am characterized neither by distraction (vikshepa) nor by concentration (samadhi). distraction and concentration (are states which) pertain to the mind which is subject to change." The Thousand Teachings, Metrical Part, 13.17: "Now that I am aware of my own real nature, how can there be concentration (samadhi) or non-concentration (asamadhi) or anything else to be performed? For it is when people have meditated on me (the true Self) and become awake to me as their true nature that they feel that there is nothing further they have to do." === (4.) Swami Atmananda -- Acharya of the Veda Sastra Patasala and President of the Bharat Sadhu Samaj, Kerala Branch. From his "Sankara's Teachings in His Own Words," (Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan, 1958), p. 230. "Sahaja Samadhi is the higher realization which never deserts the yogi after attainment." With love, --Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 24, 2000 Report Share Posted January 24, 2000 Greg Goode [goode] Sunday, January 23, 2000 11:40 PM Samadhi: nirvikalpa and sahaja Greg Goode <goode Dear , Harking back to the thread on types of samadhi, there was the question, "What's the difference between nirvikalpa samadhi and sahaja samadhi?" Here are some quotes from Krishna Menon (Sri Atmananda of Tivandrum), Ramana Maharshi, Adi Shankara, and Swami Atmananda of the Bharat Sadhu Samaj. In a nutshell here are the differences that you'll find in the quotes below. Though both samadhies are without effort, there are great differences: 1. Nirvikalpa samadhi is a pretty high form of samadhi. Sahaja samadhi is higher. 1. Nirvikalpa samadhi is temporary, even if it lasts a very long time. Sahaja samadhi is irreversible. 2. Nirvikalpa samadhi is witnessed by the mind. Sahaja samadhi is not witnessed by anything (perhaps "other people") 3. Nirvikalpa samadhi is a passing state of the mind. Sahaja samadhi is the "natural state," but there's not anything that it is a state *of*. Rather, it is our true nature. Here are the quotes, by the following authors: (1.) Krishna Menon, Sri Atmananda of Tivandrum-- One of Advaita's greatest dialecticians and philosophers. A powerful teacher who died May 14, 1959. He didn't like publicity, and indeed is not well known. Paul Brunton stayed with him for a month, but only after promising not to write about him. Quote from NOTES ON SPIRITUAL DISCOURSES OF SREE ATMANANDA, Part I, 1951: "According to certain sastras Nirvikalpa Samadhi is the ultimate goal. But according to still other sastras there are more other Samadhies yet to be experienced even beyond Nirvikalpa Samadhi. They are Nissankalpa Samadhi, Nirvrithika Samadhi, Nirvasana Samadhi. It must always be borne in mind that Samadhi, of whatever nature it may be, is only for the mind and not for the real "I-Principle." Even when the mind gets absorbed as in the Nirvikalpa state, the real "I-Principle" stands out as its witness, showing thereby that it has no connectin with Samadhi." "...Turiyam is also witnessed by the "I-Principle." From this it is clear that Samadhi by itself cannot take you to the reality. Again Samadhi is a state, and being a state is limited by time. Reality is something transcending time. Therefore until you come to the Sahaja state (Natural state) you cannot claim to be established in the Ultimate Reality. The Samskara that one goes into and domes out of Samadhi has also to be clearly transcended in order that you may reach the Absolute. Therefore Samadhies of any kind only pave the way for your establishing yourself in the Ultimate Reality." === (2.) Ramana Maharshi-- Talks, 16th Oct., 1935: "In sahaja samadhi the activities, vital, and mental, and the three states are destroyed, never to reappear. However, others notice the jnani active, e.g., eating, talking, moving, etc. He is not aware of these activities, whereas others are aware of his activities." Talks, 6th April, 1937: (Response to a question whether 21 days was the longest nirvikalpa samadhi can last) "Samadhi means passing beyond dehatma buddhi (I-am-the-body idea) and non-identification of the body with the Self is a foregone conclusion. There are said to be persons who have lived in nirvikalpa samadhi for a thousand years or more." Talks, 6th April, 1937: "1. Holding onto Reality is Samadhi. 2. Holding onto Reality with effort is Savikalpa Samadhi. 3. Merging in Reality and remaining unaware of the world is Nirvikalpa Samadhi. 4. Merging in Ignorance and remaining unaware of the world is sleep. (Head bends but not in samadhi) 5. Remaining in the primal, pure natural state without effort is Sahaja Nirvikalpa Samadhi." === (3.) Sri Adi Shankaracharya -- Sankara, The Thousand Teachings, Metrical Part, 13.14 (Translated by A.J. Alston): "Therefore, I am characterized neither by distraction (vikshepa) nor by concentration (samadhi). distraction and concentration (are states which) pertain to the mind which is subject to change." The Thousand Teachings, Metrical Part, 13.17: "Now that I am aware of my own real nature, how can there be concentration (samadhi) or non-concentration (asamadhi) or anything else to be performed? For it is when people have meditated on me (the true Self) and become awake to me as their true nature that they feel that there is nothing further they have to do." === (4.) Swami Atmananda -- Acharya of the Veda Sastra Patasala and President of the Bharat Sadhu Samaj, Kerala Branch. From his "Sankara's Teachings in His Own Words," (Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan, 1958), p. 230. "Sahaja Samadhi is the higher realization which never deserts the yogi after attainment." With love, --Greg Thanks for putting together the quotes Gregji and integrating them into a beautiful reading. It is much appreciated. Sahaj means easy or natural or that in which there is no effort as that is one's nature. Words are of course limited but in a wonderful way, the method and the understanding is indicated. Thanks Greg. Harsha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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