Guest guest Posted January 24, 2000 Report Share Posted January 24, 2000 Dan: Thank you for sharing this eminently useful information, Greg. Still - a bit perplexed by use of the word "attainment" and "higher" regarding Sahaja Samadhi (as described by one speaker). What is less perplexing is the awareness that words are not the thing described. Taking any words for the "unconditioned reality of being" is clearly nothing more than a "mental tendency". So, speakers give words to "the mind" to encourage it to allow its own "uprooting". -- Love -- Dan At 11:40 PM 1/23/00 -0500, you wrote: >Greg Goode <goode > >Dear , > >Harking back to the thread on types of samadhi, there was the question, >"What's the difference between nirvikalpa samadhi and sahaja samadhi?" > >Here are some quotes from Krishna Menon (Sri Atmananda of Tivandrum), >Ramana Maharshi, Adi Shankara, and Swami Atmananda of the Bharat Sadhu >Samaj. In a nutshell here are the differences that you'll find in the >quotes below. Though both samadhies are without effort, there are great >differences: > >1. Nirvikalpa samadhi is a pretty high form of samadhi. > Sahaja samadhi is higher. > >1. Nirvikalpa samadhi is temporary, even if it lasts a very long time. > Sahaja samadhi is irreversible. > >2. Nirvikalpa samadhi is witnessed by the mind. > Sahaja samadhi is not witnessed by anything (perhaps "other people") > >3. Nirvikalpa samadhi is a passing state of the mind. > Sahaja samadhi is the "natural state," but there's not > anything that it is a state *of*. Rather, it is our > true nature. > >Here are the quotes, by the following authors: > >(1.) Krishna Menon, Sri Atmananda of Tivandrum-- >One of Advaita's greatest dialecticians and philosophers. A powerful >teacher who died May 14, 1959. He didn't like publicity, and indeed is not >well known. Paul Brunton stayed with him for a month, but only after >promising not to write about him. > >Quote from NOTES ON SPIRITUAL DISCOURSES OF SREE ATMANANDA, Part I, 1951: > "According to certain sastras Nirvikalpa Samadhi is the ultimate goal. > But according to still other sastras there are more other Samadhies yet to >be experienced even beyond Nirvikalpa Samadhi. They are Nissankalpa >Samadhi, Nirvrithika Samadhi, Nirvasana Samadhi. It must always be borne >in mind that Samadhi, of whatever nature it may be, is only for the mind >and not for the real "I-Principle." Even when the mind gets absorbed as in >the Nirvikalpa state, the real "I-Principle" stands out as its witness, >showing thereby that it has no connectin with Samadhi." > >"...Turiyam is also witnessed by the "I-Principle." From this it is clear >that Samadhi by itself cannot take you to the reality. Again Samadhi is a >state, and being a state is limited by time. Reality is something >transcending time. Therefore until you come to the Sahaja state (Natural >state) you cannot claim to be established in the Ultimate Reality. The >Samskara that one goes into and domes out of Samadhi has also to be clearly >transcended in order that you may reach the Absolute. Therefore Samadhies >of any kind only pave the way for your establishing yourself in the >Ultimate Reality." > >=== > >(2.) Ramana Maharshi-- > >Talks, 16th Oct., 1935: >"In sahaja samadhi the activities, vital, and mental, and the three states >are destroyed, never to reappear. However, others notice the jnani active, >e.g., eating, talking, moving, etc. He is not aware of these activities, >whereas others are aware of his activities." > >Talks, 6th April, 1937: >(Response to a question whether 21 days was the longest nirvikalpa samadhi >can last) > >"Samadhi means passing beyond dehatma buddhi (I-am-the-body idea) and >non-identification of the body with the Self is a foregone conclusion. >There are said to be persons who have lived in nirvikalpa samadhi for a >thousand years or more." > >Talks, 6th April, 1937: >"1. Holding onto Reality is Samadhi. >2. Holding onto Reality with effort is Savikalpa Samadhi. >3. Merging in Reality and remaining unaware of the world is Nirvikalpa >Samadhi. >4. Merging in Ignorance and remaining unaware of the world is sleep. (Head >bends but not in samadhi) >5. Remaining in the primal, pure natural state without effort is Sahaja >Nirvikalpa Samadhi." > >=== > >(3.) Sri Adi Shankaracharya -- >Sankara, The Thousand Teachings, Metrical Part, 13.14 (Translated by A.J. >Alston): > >"Therefore, I am characterized neither by distraction (vikshepa) nor by >concentration (samadhi). distraction and concentration (are states which) >pertain to the mind which is subject to change." > >The Thousand Teachings, Metrical Part, 13.17: >"Now that I am aware of my own real nature, how can there be concentration >(samadhi) or non-concentration (asamadhi) or anything else to be performed? > For it is when people have meditated on me (the true Self) and become >awake to me as their true nature that they feel that there is nothing >further they have to do." > >=== > >(4.) Swami Atmananda -- >Acharya of the Veda Sastra Patasala and President of the Bharat Sadhu >Samaj, Kerala Branch. From his "Sankara's Teachings in His Own Words," >(Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan, 1958), p. 230. > >"Sahaja Samadhi is the higher realization which never deserts the yogi >after attainment." > >With love, > >--Greg > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! >Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in >forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > <a href=" http://clickme./ad/gator4 ">Click Here</a> > >------ > >All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 24, 2000 Report Share Posted January 24, 2000 Dear Dan, Oh yes, the Swami Atmananda quote. I know what you mean about the puzzle of the "attainment" and "higher" words. This was a definition from the glossary of a popular book, written in a very conventional way. Yes, and he's certainly not pointing to or describing words themselves! Popular non-technical writing like this definitely has its motivational aspects, encouraging the person to come to see, as an apparent person, that there was never a person. Love, --Greg At 10:00 AM 1/24/00 -0500, Dan Berkow, PhD wrote: >"Dan Berkow, PhD" <berkowd > >Dan: >Thank you for sharing this eminently useful information, Greg. > >Still - a bit perplexed by use of the word "attainment" and "higher" >regarding Sahaja Samadhi (as described by one speaker). What is >less perplexing is the awareness that words are not the thing described. >Taking any words for the "unconditioned reality of being" is clearly >nothing more than a "mental tendency". So, speakers give words to >"the mind" to encourage it to allow its own "uprooting". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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