Guest guest Posted February 1, 2000 Report Share Posted February 1, 2000 Dharma [fisher1] Tuesday, February 01, 2000 12:21 PM Re: RE: [NondualitySalon] The Advaita Shuffle Dharma <fisher1 Hi Harsha! >And thank you Sri Gregji for bringing in the Emptiness Shuffle. And since it >comes alongside with the Compassion Shuffle, it is no doubt totally supreme >in the hierarchy of shuffles! :--). > >Mirror Mirror on the Wall! >Who is the emptiest of them all! >The highest one, the one supreme! >The best shuffler among all who seem, >to know the shuffle steps so well >Who moves in such stillness >that He cannot tell >where the dance begins and ends. So shuffle on down the empty line, Dressed in the whirlwind, Feelin' fine... And finer and finer all the time, A Cheshire smile On the empty face... The shufflin' dancer is Mostly space. The wind is dancin' you Down the line, Finer and finer, Feelin' fine. Spin in time With the movin' line, Dance the Emptiness Blue. Oh yeah... It's the Emptiness Blue. Thanks Dharma! The Emptiness Blues! I totally love the Emptiness Blues! Harsha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2000 Report Share Posted February 1, 2000 >"Harsha (Dr. Harsh K. Luthar)" <hluthar >And thank you Sri Gregji for bringing in the Emptiness Shuffle. And since it >comes alongside with the Compassion Shuffle, it is no doubt totally supreme >in the hierarchy of shuffles! :--). > >Mirror Mirror on the Wall! >Who is the emptiest of them all! >The highest one, the one supreme! >The best shuffler among all who seem, >to know the shuffle steps so well >Who moves in such stillness >that He cannot tell >where the dance begins and ends. > > >Love >Harsha Are you confusing (if I may be presumptuous) the concept of God as infinite & unknowable & indescribable, with a procedure of investigation using reason (Nyaya philosophy)? Yes, God as indescribable is, IMHO, a valid perspective, infact an absolutely essential perspective. However, this does not invalid reason. Reason is also an absolutely essential tool for gaining knowledge. We can't function in the world without it. And, for some, it can be a way to God. There are traps in the way of Love: for example when love is tainted by self interest and thereby fails to expand to the supreme. There are traps on the way of Reason, for example, one may get stuck in a particular view point & operate out of the pattern of memory. An analogy about diversity: if one's heart expands in the fullness/wholeness of light, who can deny? But we know that light is both particle(parts & division) & wave(wholeness). What you see depends on what you look for or what you are attuned to. While celebrating wholeness(wave), we must also acknowledge the perspective of division(particle)? Otherwise our wholeness is limited?! Reason & Love are just two different colors in the rainbow. If those who prefer one deny the other...well... our cultures have been doing that endlessly with horrific consequences. Harsha, you eloquently express expansive feeling here, and I would be incomplete without that warmth, I must have it. Perhaps our task together is to fully appreciate & unite Love & Reason. Outwardly Love (expansion) & Reason (contraction) are opposing, perhaps only in the heart of living consciousness can they be united. My sincere attempt here is to NOT attack the personality or Being of Petros, but rather to point out 'cavil' or false reasoning. And the same goes for that revered teacher Gangaji. God is within, It is certainly not in confined ANY _external_ personality, such as Andrew Cohen, Gangaji, Jesus, Buddha etc. And God can never be confined to the words or discourse of any one personality. All external personalities are limited, and so recognizing, let us laugh joyously together at our external limitations, and look within to the unlimited. I gotta get some work done now!! Love, Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2000 Report Share Posted February 1, 2000 Enjoying watching Andrew Cohen, Ganga, Roger, and Harsha shuffle. It's all in the rhythm! That's what's fun about it!! So much movement, yet nothing moves! A wonderful sight. If no questioner arises, then no answerer is needed. Ganga seems to draw attention simply to this point - and perhaps she has "one-pointed" attention on this aspect of reality. For those who don't need this, or who have moved beyond it, there are other places to go! The wonderful thing about this world is that there are many different ways to hear truth, many different flowers growing from one soil. Andrew seems to long for a conversation with more diverse issues addressed, more mutually assisted exploration. This is then his longing, not "the truth about things." Let him create such a dialogue with an appropriate partner - why spend his energy criticizing "another" and implying "she is doing something wrong"? Does such criticism help construct the kind of dialogue he says he wants, or does it merely place him in the role of "expert critic", another kind of shuffle, and another way to avoid "genuine contact"? Well, that's the Dan shuffle to add to this ever-shuffling deck... -- Love -- Dan >"Roger Isaacs" <rbi > >>From the "What Is Enlightenment?" publication Volume 1, #1, Jan 92: > >The Advaita, or non-dual teachings, are widely considered the highest >teachings. When their depth and subtlety are not fully understood, they >can be misinterpreted and misused. >... >The "Advaita Shuffle" can be used skillfully at the right time by a >spiritual teacher to temporarily stop the mind and thereby reveal the >beginningless and endless ocean of being, usually obscured. >Unfortunately this technique is frequently used as a way to deceive >oneself and others when the user is placed in a position of threat, >challenge or difficulty. >... >[exchange with Ganga deleted along with most of the article, the usual >"Who's identifying...? Who's judging?" etc..] >This exchange illustrates the impossibility of having a rational, mutual >inquiry with someone who is stuck in the Absolute viewpoint. It defies >all common sense and logic. Prolonged exposure can even lead one to >doubt one's sanity. Ganga is continually answering any question with >further questions about who the questioner is. Superficially this man >seem profound, but in a mutual investigation it can all too easily be >used as a smokescreen to avoid any real inquiry whatsoever. The "Advaita >shuffle" enables a person to use the Advaita teachings of non-duality to >"Advaita away" conflicts, disagreements, or uncomfortable aspects of >reality. The attention is drawn away from the actual content of the >discussion and put back on the questioner himself. This excerpt also >shows how proponents of the Advaita view can be so fixated on the >Absolute position that they regard any form of discussion as a descent >into the relative, and a manifestation of ignorance. In this way, all >desire and possibility for investigation, learning and change are >destroyed... > > > > >This is hilarious Roger. Look at it this way. Everyone is shuffling one way >or the other. Whether it is the Advaita Shuffle or the anti Advaita Shuffle, >the Yoga Shuffle, or the modified Advaita Shuffle or the Tantra shuffle or >the Neo versions of various shuffles. Whether it is the guru shuffle or the >student shuffle, and whether it is the intellectual shuffle or the emotional >shuffle, or the bliss shuffle, shuffling happens. Any point of view on which >type of Shuffling is best will quickly lead to an opposing view. The central >question always is "Where do I stand." To Know Where One Stands One must >Know One's Own Self. Well, if you are always shuffling and watching other >people shuffle and trying to decide which is the most competitive shuffle, >then the question, "Where do I stand" cannot capture the attention and hold >your interest and is of limited value. In such a case where is the harm in >shuffling? Any type of shuffling will do. Shuffle away. > >Love to all >Harsha > > > > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who >are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today >and put your mind to rest. ><a href=" http://clickme./ad/XpersiteCPC ">Click Here</a> > >------ > >All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2000 Report Share Posted February 1, 2000 At 01:25 PM 2/1/00 -0500, Harsha (Dr. Harsh K. Luthar) wrote: >"Harsha (Dr. Harsh K. Luthar)" <hluthar > > >Dharma [fisher1] >Tuesday, February 01, 2000 12:21 PM > >Re: RE: [NondualitySalon] The Advaita Shuffle > >Dharma <fisher1 > >Hi Harsha! > >>And thank you Sri Gregji for bringing in the Emptiness Shuffle. And since >it >>comes alongside with the Compassion Shuffle, it is no doubt totally supreme >>in the hierarchy of shuffles! :--). And thank you Sri Harsha-ji for reminding us of the Shuffle Shuffle, a little-known advaita trap! --Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2000 Report Share Posted February 1, 2000 Dan Berkow, PhD [berkowd] Tuesday, February 01, 2000 1:57 PM Re: The Advaita Shuffle "Dan Berkow, PhD" <berkowd Enjoying watching Andrew Cohen, Ganga, Roger, and Harsha shuffle. It's all in the rhythm! That's what's fun about it!! So much movement, yet nothing moves! A wonderful sight. If no questioner arises, then no answerer is needed. Ganga seems to draw attention simply to this point - and perhaps she has "one-pointed" attention on this aspect of reality. For those who don't need this, or who have moved beyond it, there are other places to go! The wonderful thing about this world is that there are many different ways to hear truth, many different flowers growing from one soil. Andrew seems to long for a conversation with more diverse issues addressed, more mutually assisted exploration. This is then his longing, not "the truth about things." Let him create such a dialogue with an appropriate partner - why spend his energy criticizing "another" and implying "she is doing something wrong"? Does such criticism help construct the kind of dialogue he says he wants, or does it merely place him in the role of "expert critic", another kind of shuffle, and another way to avoid "genuine contact"? Well, that's the Dan shuffle to add to this ever-shuffling deck... -- Love -- Dan Adi Dan has spoken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2000 Report Share Posted February 1, 2000 At 01:56 PM 2/1/00 -0500, Dan Berkow, PhD wrote: > >Andrew seems to long for a conversation with more >diverse issues addressed, more mutually assisted >exploration. This is then his longing, not "the >truth about things." Let him create such a dialogue >with an appropriate partner - why spend his energy >criticizing "another" and implying "she is doing >something wrong"? Does such criticism help >construct the kind of dialogue he says he wants, >or does it merely place him in the role of >"expert critic", another kind of shuffle, >and another way to avoid "genuine contact"? Hey Dan, here's a bit of Greg-shuffle. There is some historical rivalry between Cohen and Gangaji, each awas told at one time that they were THE Western messenger of Papaji. There was a famous dialogue between Andrew and Gangaji that the "shuffle" writing is referring to. I heard the audiotape, and Cohen's magazine transcribed it. Drama, insults, fisticuffs!! Others here have more details, I'm sure. Love, --Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2000 Report Share Posted February 1, 2000 >So shuffle on down the empty line, >Dressed in the whirlwind, >Feelin' fine... >And finer and finer all the time, >A Cheshire smile >On the empty face... >The shufflin' dancer is >Mostly space. >The wind is dancin' you >Down the line, >Finer and finer, >Feelin' fine. >Spin in time >With the movin' line, >Dance the Emptiness Blue. >Oh yeah... >It's the Emptiness Blue. > > >Thanks Dharma! The Emptiness Blues! I totally love the Emptiness Blues! > > >Harsha You got it! But the "Emptiness Blue" is a bit more Zennish, don't you think? )))) Dharma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2000 Report Share Posted February 1, 2000 >"Roger Isaacs" <rbi > >Are you confusing (if I may be presumptuous) the concept of God as infinite >& unknowable & indescribable, with a procedure of investigation using reason >(Nyaya philosophy)? How could anyone possibly confuse a concept of God with a procedure?? Hmm.... maybe it's a koan... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2000 Report Share Posted February 1, 2000 >Dharma <fisher1 >>>Roger: >>>Are you confusing (if I may be presumptuous) the concept of God as infinite >>& unknowable & indescribable, with a procedure of investigation using reason >>(Nyaya philosophy)? > >How could anyone possibly confuse a concept of God with a procedure?? > >Hmm.... maybe it's a koan... Of course it could just be a typo or a brain fart... If you say "God is unknowable!" ... cool. But if you turn it around and say: "God is unknowable therefore questioning is prohibited or useless." Cringe! Yet, this confusion seems to exist. Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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