The doors of percetion and the doorkeeper.

[Guest guest]

I am sending this again for didn't indicate a

success and jammed up, sorry if it made it first time.

 

Namaste All,

 

Bruce wrote:-

>I agree, grasping nonduality

conceptually is not anywhere

near the same as actual

nondual realization and often

comprises the final and most

formidable barrier to it.

However, if I may be so bold,

where the heck do you get the

nerve to assume that those

who attempt to point toward

the nondual in a careful,

"intellectual" way of writing

are stuck in "a massive

reinforced intellectual giant

Ego thought?" Do you see the

possibility of your own ego

being involved in this

judgement via a sort of

reverse intellectual

snobbery?<

 

Tony's ans: hahahahahah lovely stuff!

 

The Upanishads seem to contradict each other depending

on the 'seer', and the time. Ultimately of course they

don't, however they are subject to translations.

 

Manas means mind, which mind? Or does it mean all

levels of mind? Mano or Vijnana?

 

Ramana seems to use mind and ego as meaning the same

thing. Without ego there is no mind and without mind

there is no ego.

 

Let us assume two positions; 1. All is ultimately

illusion, there is no mind and it didn't ever happen.

The ultimate Truth!

 

2. We live in illusion and there is a relative reality

to be dealt with.

Whether we think that it arises as we perceive it or

we think it is 'created', we still have to deal with,

whilst we are 'unrealised'.

 

Considering illusion, there is a projection or

appearance on the Self. This is Saguna.

 

There is the universal Mahat or universal 'I', and

then there is the individual small 'I', or ego/

ahamkara.

 

It is simple there is 1.Nirguna Brahman, 2.there is

Saguna Brahman, 3.there is it's power and projection

of Prana/Sakti.

 

We at present are not realised Nirguna Brahman, nor

Saguna Brahman. However we are a 'part', of the

Sakti/Prana.

 

Therefore it is possible to realise that we are

Prana/Sakti, we cannot become Saguna Brahman, for

'realisation', skips and takes us to Nirguna Brahman.

However this cannot be done without the 'Grace', of

Saguna Brahman/The Dreamer that dreams us. Its

projection or appearance.

 

" Somewhere there is a dream dreaming us". San

Kalahari Bushman saying.-Leakey. (Most are illiterate

hunter gatherers.)

 

I suppose what I am saying without quoting any

scriptures etc is that; Yes we are Nirguna, but we

are a thought of Saguna, relatively.

 

If we don't have the final Grace of Saguna, or do not

reach that ultimate level then we will become either,

a very strong singular ego thought of non-duality, on

the one hand and on the other if were full of Love we

would become a thought in its most ephemeral state and

then it would be subsumed and finally destroyed at

Mahapralaya. The non-dual thought would only remerge

as ego in the post-pralaya. Perhaps as ripe fruit!

 

Overripe? Ha ha ha ha !

 

Love and Om Namah Sivaya, Tony.

 

 

=====

http://members.xoom.com/aoclery/sanskritglos.htm

ASATHO MA SATH GAMAYA, From the unreal lead me to the real,

THAMASO MA JYOTHIR GAMAYA, From darkness, lead me to light,

MRITHYOR MA AMRITAM GAMAYA.From death, lead me to immortality.

OM, SHANTI SHANTI SHANTI. Om, Peace Peace Peace.

 

 

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