Guest guest Posted February 13, 2000 Report Share Posted February 13, 2000 Namaste All, 1.) Pardon my Sankrit terms sometimes but these are the words that I have learnt, studying and even singing in Sanskrit for many, many years. The projector or appearance is not separate from the projector. However the projection cannot realise it is the projector without the Grace of the projector. So it seems some effort and Grace are necessary. Self enquiry or Vichara, attracts Grace. The little 'I' realises that it is actually 'I Am', the Mahat , the Cosmic Ego, but that is still not Nirguna Brahman. One can get to the Bliss of the Self, or a thought-free state, but that has attributes, for what else is Bliss? As one now is thought-free, effort is no longer possible. However one still has the attribute of bliss and the feeling 'I Am'. So becoming Nirguna therefore must only be with the Grace of the Self. This is Saguna Brahman for Nirguna has no attributes, isn't it? Therefore Moksha can only be realised by the Grace of Saguna Brahman. The Inweller, with attributes. So Moksha seems to be in two steps, the one looks back and sees it never happened at all. Sakti and mind are the same thing, one has become Mahasakti, so now one is 'part', of the Self. So the Self ends its own illusion with this now purified mind; the beginningless ends! 2.) EGO CONTROL MOKSHA. However there is the point of 'loss of control', which the ego cannot abide. This is what I meant when I said the Greatest Conceit is that the Ego/Mind can achieve Moksha. The ego doesn't like the idea of surrender so prefers the idea of realising itself, without any Grace other than non-dual- mindset-effort. However this may achieve Bliss, but who is to free it from its happiness? Only Saguna can do this! Just my opinions that's all, not preaching! 3.) SURRENDER. With regard to surrender; the easiest way is through Nishkarma karma. That is not being attached to the results of one's actions for one is not really doing them. This way one can continue normal daily life. So it is a matter of feeling that one is not the doer, giving up the results, and continuing on in the present minute. There is only the eternal present, whatever is going to happen, happens anyway, do not get attached to what one cannot ultimately control. So by not being attached to the action one accrues no karma and one surrenders to the fact. Then all action is a prayer! Love and Om Namah Sivaya, Tony. ===== http://members.xoom.com/aoclery/sanskritglos.htm ASATHO MA SATH GAMAYA, From the unreal lead me to the real, THAMASO MA JYOTHIR GAMAYA, From darkness, lead me to light, MRITHYOR MA AMRITAM GAMAYA.From death, lead me to immortality. OM, SHANTI SHANTI SHANTI. Om, Peace Peace Peace. Talk to your friends online with Messenger. http://im. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2000 Report Share Posted February 14, 2000 In a message dated 2/13/00 11:46:45 AM Pacific Standard Time, aoclery writes: << even singing in Sanskrit for many, many years. >> Dear Tony: You are mistaken, I fear. Sanskrit is a written language...it cannot be spoken or sung. Perhaps you refer to Hindi? Zenbob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2000 Report Share Posted February 14, 2000 Dear Tony: Attachments, attachments. Labels, words, not actualities. Cease attempting to parse and define every state of being. Liberation, per se, is not found in the words. Get past the words and let go a bit. Do you find this mechanistic chewing of thought to be exhilarating? It reminds me of the biology instructor who could only recognize a butterfly by it's tiniest parts on slides, and then label them only by their Latin or Greek names. Admittedly defining some things can help in clarifying, but often it is only an intellectual grandstanding effort. No matter how keenly one tries to slice the instant thought and label it, there is the thought, the thought before the thought, and the thought after the thought. You should not be critical of intellectual activities if you are also partaking of the same. I am somewhat at a loss. What exactly are you seeking to achieve by all of this? It seems to me that you thrive on controversy and attention...and that by flailing away at these concepts you seek to prove that you are making progress. None of your comments suggest to me that you are gaining any ground in your battle with the "nature of things as they are" or inward peace. I say this with all due respect, but my opinion is merely derived from all of the sturm und drang revealed in your communications. Your words reflect a churning maelstrom of bubbling thoughts, often contradictory and rarely in a state of calm attunement. Mind you, I understand that everyone cannot be calm at all times, but the churning nature reflected in your words seems to suggest a mind, body and spirit in some form of torment or suffering, not one who is floating in the sea of bliss. You have never said if you have ever taken that nature walk that I suggested a few weeks ago. Admittedly, since it is winter, this may not be the best time to be out strolling amidst the oaks and dales, but should the weather permit, I still highly encourage such a walkabout. Warm Regards, Blessings, Zenbob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2000 Report Share Posted February 14, 2000 On Mon, 14 Feb 2000 15:09:17 EST ZEN2WRK writes: > ZEN2WRK > > In a message dated 2/13/00 11:46:45 AM Pacific Standard Time, > aoclery writes: > > << even > singing in Sanskrit for many, many years. >> > > Dear Tony: > > You are mistaken, I fear. No offense, but I can't imagine you fearing any such thing. :-) > Sanskrit is a written language...it > cannot be spoken or sung. What happens if you do, does a Guardian Avatar smite you or something? Why would a language that "cannot be spoken or sung" require a "pronunciation key" as per this URL?: http://sanskrit.bhaarat.com/Doc_Project/learning_tools/pronounce.html > Perhaps you refer to Hindi? > > > J. Krishnamurti was said to be fond of chanting in Sanskrit -- are those anecdotes also "mistaken?" Not that I'm into encouraging Tony's predeliction for things ancient and Indo-Aryan, mind you.... :-) http://come.to/realization http://www.atman.net/realization http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucemrg.htm http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucsong.htm ______________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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