Guest guest Posted February 16, 2000 Report Share Posted February 16, 2000 In a message dated 2/16/00 12:39:13 PM Mountain Standard Time, dhodges writes: << You are right, when you have been through it, you know that the Dark Night is not a picturesque poetic image, it is suffering. And not momentary or intermittent suffering, but deep and prolonged. But also worth every moment. >> I'm sorry I missed the beginning of this discussion -- just got out of the hospital where, for a few wild days, both worlds were wide open to me! I found several years ago that the Dark Night was precipitated by awakening itself. The Light was gloriously present and then, just as unexpectedly, It was profoundly absent. This seemed to me utterly cruel at the time, but I now see this as a critical step on the path to non-duality. I was still feeling that God was somewhere "out there," and this belief had to go. Reading Bernadette Roberts on Jerry's web page helped a lot. Richard Moss also has much to contribute on this topic in The Second Miracle. Holly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2000 Report Share Posted February 16, 2000 Namaste All, Re 'Dark Night of the Soul', in my limited experience when people talk of this they are talking of pain not just poetry. Mostly they are people who are on the spiritual path and a yearning for the deeper fact or moksha. Mostly they are talking about loss, grief, death of loved ones, death of anything, pain and almost unbearable agony. They are talking about the lesson of attachments and how they cause pain. They are talking about the pain of loss with regard to attachments. They are talking about the speeding up of karma due to spiritual progress. They are talking about painful purification of the mind and senses. They are talking about this painful process as 'Grace' prepares them for deeper realisations, prevented by these attachments. Sankara said 'death is separation from our desires'; They are talking about death before leaving the body, so when death comes it is but a transition. They are talking about'God', hitting them on the head and saying 'Wake up', it is but a dream! I wake you for the dream is painful yet still a dream. I take your child,your baby, your spouse, your parents, relatives, businesses, lovers, posessions, health and attachments. I leave you, your loss and thee howling at the moon, and striking thy breast. With nowhere to escape but into grief itself. The loss that none can assuage but time and I am Kala, I am time. I am a jealous lover have no false gods before me! I am the destroyer of the worlds I am Siva, there is none but me! Wake up from the pain and find out that it was all really joy and tat twam asi, you and I are one. That is the dark night of the soul!! The dark before the dawn! Love and Om Namah Sivaya, Tony. Pardon my prose! ===== http://members.xoom.com/aoclery/sanskritglos.htm http://members.zoom.com/aoclery/escapesai1.htm ASATHO MA SATH GAMAYA, From the unreal lead me to the real, THAMASO MA JYOTHIR GAMAYA, From darkness, lead me to light, MRITHYOR MA AMRITAM GAMAYA.From death, lead me to immortality. OM, SHANTI SHANTI SHANTI. Om, Peace Peace Peace. Talk to your friends online with Messenger. http://im. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2000 Report Share Posted February 16, 2000 Thank you for this Tony. It is beautifully written and deeply meaningful to me. (there is nothing to pardon in your prose, it is inspired.) You are right, when you have been through it, you know that the Dark Night is not a picturesque poetic image, it is suffering. And not momentary or intermittent suffering, but deep and prolonged. But also worth every moment. David At 11:06 AM 2/16/00 -0800, you wrote: >Tony O'Clery <aoclery > >Namaste All, > >Re 'Dark Night of the Soul', in my limited experience >when people talk of this they are talking of pain not >just poetry. > >Mostly they are people who are on the spiritual path >and a yearning for the deeper fact or moksha. > >Mostly they are talking about loss, grief, death of >loved ones, death of anything, pain and almost >unbearable agony. > >They are talking about the lesson of attachments and >how they cause pain. They are talking about the pain >of loss with regard to attachments. They are talking >about the speeding up of karma due to spiritual >progress. They are talking about painful purification >of the mind and senses. > >They are talking about this painful process as 'Grace' >prepares them for deeper realisations, prevented by >these attachments. > >Sankara said 'death is separation from our desires'; >They are talking about death before leaving the body, >so when death comes it is but a transition. > >They are talking about'God', hitting them on the head >and saying 'Wake up', it is but a dream! I wake you >for the dream is painful yet still a dream. > >I take your child,your baby, your spouse, your >parents, relatives, businesses, lovers, posessions, >health and attachments. I leave you, your loss and >thee howling at the moon, and striking thy breast. >With nowhere to escape but into grief itself. The loss >that none can assuage but time and I am Kala, I am >time. I am a jealous lover have no false gods before >me! I am the destroyer of the worlds I am Siva, there >is none but me! Wake up from the pain and find out >that it was all really joy and tat twam asi, you and I >are one. > >That is the dark night of the soul!! The dark before >the dawn! > >Love and Om Namah Sivaya, Tony. Pardon my prose! > >===== >http://members.xoom.com/aoclery/sanskritglos.htm >http://members.zoom.com/aoclery/escapesai1.htm >ASATHO MA SATH GAMAYA, From the unreal lead me to the real, >THAMASO MA JYOTHIR GAMAYA, From darkness, lead me to light, >MRITHYOR MA AMRITAM GAMAYA.From death, lead me to immortality. >OM, SHANTI SHANTI SHANTI. Om, Peace Peace Peace. > > >Talk to your friends online with Messenger. >http://im. > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent >Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards >Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the >credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at ><a href=" http://clickme./ad/NextcardCreative1 ">Click Here</a> > >------ > >// > >All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, >perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and >subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not >different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the >nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. >It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the >Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of >Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome >all to a. > >To from this list, go to the ONElist web site, at > www., and select the User Center link from > the menu bar > on the left. This menu will also let you change your > subscription > between digest and normal mode. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2000 Report Share Posted February 16, 2000 Hbarrett47 wrote: > > Hbarrett47 > > In a message dated 2/16/00 12:39:13 PM Mountain Standard Time, > dhodges writes: > > << You are > right, when you have been through it, you know that the Dark Night is > not a > picturesque poetic image, it is suffering. And not momentary or > intermittent suffering, but deep and prolonged. But also worth every > moment. > >> > > I'm sorry I missed the beginning of this discussion -- just got out of > the > hospital where, for a few wild days, both worlds were wide open to > me! May health be with you Holly, Take care and joy, Antoine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2000 Report Share Posted February 17, 2000 Perhaps the time has come to expose the the dark night (DN) of the soul as a home-made mini-drama. Anything like a DN won't be experienced by those, having recognized *what is* by going through the act of dying. The Kathopanishad (Nachiketa), Ramana, there will many similar cases. Sankara, Jnaneshwar, they are examples of jivanmuktas at a young age who didn't experience a DN either. So "going through the no-where land between duality and non-duality" isn't the cause of the DN. Rather, it is the "punishment" for *not knowing God* (defined as sin), as one would say in a dualistic system. In a non-dual system, one could "blame" it on ignorance or (wrong) identification and these identifications will have to dissolve. This is fairly easy for an "I as the sinner" but not so easy for an "I as / the doer of good / a caring mother / a caring spouse". Present day "adult" life is founded on identifications (called "personal" life), even to assuming an "I as the lover" so the dissolution can evoke serious problems, and more so when their nature isn't recognized. Defining a civilized society as one, based on "no-I", (the only guarantee for selflessness in acting, ruling, advising etc.), the Middle Ages in Europe with their many wars, violent gangs, inquisition, indoctrination with the aid of the executioner, could be called the most uncivilized society yet (except for destructive power). So Dante's Divine Comedy without a hell would be very unlikely... Another conclusion could be that in a civilized society, physical and spiritual maturity (no-I) approximately would have to coincide (between age 20...30). Without a DN, "going through the no-where land between duality and non-duality" can be THE one joyful adventure of a lifetime. Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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