Guest guest Posted February 17, 2000 Report Share Posted February 17, 2000 In a message dated 02/17/2000 7:40:02 AM Eastern Standard Time, hluthar writes: > So I agree with brother Jerry. We should be at ease saying whatever we want > when whatever we say points to everything being easy. When everything seems hard and all we can talk about is how hard everything is for everyone, > including enlightenment, then what is the point of saying anything. Sometimes saying 'everything is hard' is said by myself, with great ease. Seeing there are differences in ourselves and the world we perceive is obvious and cannot be denied - our thoughts are not neutral. Knowing they are meaningless, no matter what is said, heard, read, etc., is meaningful to me. What is the point of saying anything then? If I say 'everything is hard' to a group on a list, for instance, then they may not think I *got* it. Who cares? I don't got anything anyway. My ex was very rude to me one day, screaming with 'that tone of voice' he always used to everyone, over a minor incident. I wanted to say ''that is rude... there is a much kinder way of speaking to another" and go into a dialogue about speaking kindly. Instead, I opted to step back for a moment, realizing I already knew this, and I didn't need to teach it to myself in order to strengthen my own ideas. I opted instead to let him teach me, to strengthen his own ideas of what he wanted in his life. About five minutes later, 'on cue', I screamed at him very rudely about some dumb thing. He immediately sat me down and explained to me in such an easy and gentle way 'that there is a much kinder way of speaking to someone." LOL! I said ''huh? I don't understand." So he explained it again in greater depth. I told him I still didn't get what he was saying. He explained it even further. I really went over the edge, when I told him that I REALLLLY wanted to *get* what he was saying... could he explain it one more time! And he did! He never spoke to anyone rudely again after that. Much Love, xxxtg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2000 Report Share Posted February 17, 2000 In a message dated 2/17/00 8:14:59 AM Mountain Standard Time, hluthar writes: << There is the possibility of bringing awareness to the root of the mind and giving up to this awareness with abandon. In such a way we can explore the meaningfulness of meaning. This might also be meaningful :-). >> Folks look for meaning (believing that meaning is inherent in the perceived) at the same time that they themselves endow events and things with meaning -- I think this is an aspect of creativity. I wonder if meaningfulness is a deep essence like beauty or realness or beingness? Holly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2000 Report Share Posted February 17, 2000 "Jerry M. Katz" wrote: > I don't feel I have to be careful. Instead, I feel I need to > be extremely careless. > > I'll say whatever I want. "I am fully enlightened." And/Or, > "I am not enlightened." What's the big deal. Lightning > didn't strike me down. Although a bottle of lightening for > my coffee did fall on my head. > > Jerry Yesterday, I was sitting with with a group of colleagues, fellow professors. Very nice and highly advanced group intellectually. Wise and funny. One of the older colleagues, a distinguished professor from France who knows me said in his jovial manner, "Well you have attained the Zen state of emptiness. " I had to laugh. "I cannot say that I have attained emptiness as I am Emptiness," I said smiling. "Oh, I am sorry", the other gentleman said, "I was trying to be prudent in my remark and did not wish to be presumptuous." So we were laughing and I said we are all empty in a way, emptying our selves all the time one way or another. So I agree with brother Jerry. We should be at ease saying whatever we want when whatever we say points to everything being easy. When everything seems hard and all we can talk about is how hard everything is for everyone, including enlightenment, then what is the point of saying anything. Love Harsha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2000 Report Share Posted February 17, 2000 In a message dated 02/17/2000 10:15:07 AM Eastern Standard Time, hluthar writes: > Thanks for sharing TG. I do not know exactly what you are saying, but I like > it. We cannot say that thoughts are not meaningful or meaningless. Although our thoughts show differences, they are all meaningless -- we give them a value, which makes them full or less of meaning. Our thoughts exist because of the value we give them. Even by observing them, we give them value that they are worth observing, although they are seen in their meaningless state. And I'm not saying that observing is worthless! It is quite valuable. It leads one from seeing... to being, when realized that seeing what is observed is being. >And you are right, in one sense that we are all different and have different > perceptions of the world. And life is indeed hard at times and it is easy to > speak of it as being hard. I know it from experience! From my perspective, > the meaningfulness of life is not denied. How can it be denied? We are living > it! I agree! I like to keep what is valuable to me, and let go of what is not valuable. That's the best I can do right now for what I know. Many times, it takes great learning experiences on my part to know what is valuable and what is not! >I believe we can bring awareness to the tendency to associate > meaningfulness with particular experiences, which is a natural function > of the mind. But it can also keep the mind occupied and fixated on > experiences. There is no end to it. I agree. I found myself fixed on making everything a learning experience... and would constantly say "hmmmm... what could I learn from this?" I saw my own mind reeling from what it was I was to learn. Of course, my mind could come up with something! My mind was, of itself, creating itself. I finally realized, it didn't matter -- if I learned something, fine. If I didn't, fine. > There is the possibility of bringing awareness to the root of the mind and > giving up to this awareness with abandon. In such a way we can explore the > meaningfulness of meaning. This might also be meaningful :-). I just like the sound of the words meaningless, meaningful. So give me an opportunity, and I'll use them. :-) > A name and form (like TG, Jerry, Harsha, etc....) is an occurrence in I AM. > I AM is the tip of the iceberg, shining and reflecting in the light of the > Self. It is the half open eye of the Self. Perhaps it is called the Original > Nature or the Buddha nature. The Great Emptiness. Who can speak of it having > meaning or being without meaning? It is constant within itself. Yes. In that half open eye of the Self, there is perception that everything is the same, although knowledge of what is different about what is the same remains. One can see their own original nature and speak of the sameness of it all. It makes it easier to see that our thoughts do not matter, and that our original nature is our thoughts. There is only our own thoughts, brought to the light of Truth. As we speak from our own original nature... from the half open eyes of Self, it doesn't matter what is said, or what is thought. Why? Why? I asked myself... why does nothing really matter!?!!!??? Is it because everything is the same, everything is light? Not a good enough answer for me. I wanted to know why! And in that last sentence was my answer. As we begin to open our eyes further into being, instead of seeing, what remains is that we are no longer seeing wholly our own thoughts, but seeing from the eyes of the whole. We no longer see our thoughts which make up our world we see and don't see, even in their most purified form... we now see each other's pure essence. Thank you Harsha, for sharing with me. Love, xxxtg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2000 Report Share Posted February 17, 2000 LeTeegee wrote: > Sometimes saying 'everything is hard' is said by myself, with great ease. > Seeing there are differences in ourselves and the world we perceive is > obvious and cannot be denied - our thoughts are not neutral. Knowing they > are meaningless, no matter what is said, heard, read, etc., is meaningful to > me. > > What is the point of saying anything then? If I say 'everything is hard' to > a group on a list, for instance, then they may not think I *got* it. Who > cares? I don't got anything anyway. > > My ex was very rude to me one day, screaming with 'that tone of voice' he > always used to everyone, over a minor incident. I wanted to say ''that is > rude... there is a much kinder way of speaking to another" and go into a > dialogue about speaking kindly. Instead, I opted to step back for a moment, > realizing I already knew this, and I didn't need to teach it to myself in > order to strengthen my own ideas. I opted instead to let him teach me, to > strengthen his own ideas of what he wanted in his life. About five minutes > later, 'on cue', I screamed at him very rudely about some dumb thing. > > He immediately sat me down and explained to me in such an easy and gentle way > 'that there is a much kinder way of speaking to someone." LOL! I said > ''huh? I don't understand." So he explained it again in greater depth. I > told him I still didn't get what he was saying. He explained it even > further. I really went over the edge, when I told him that I REALLLLY > wanted to *get* what he was saying... could he explain it one more time! > And he did! > > He never spoke to anyone rudely again after that. > > Much Love, > xxxtg > Thanks for sharing TG. I do not know exactly what you are saying, but I like it. We cannot say that thoughts are not meaningful or meaningless. And you are right, in one sense that we are all different and have different perceptions of the world. And life is indeed hard at times and it is easy to speak of it as being hard. I know it from experience! From my perspective, the meaningfulness of life is not denied. How can it be denied? We are living it! I believe we can bring awareness to the tendency to associate meaningfulness with particular experiences, which is a natural function of the mind. But it can also keep the mind occupied and fixated on experiences. There is no end to it. There is the possibility of bringing awareness to the root of the mind and giving up to this awareness with abandon. In such a way we can explore the meaningfulness of meaning. This might also be meaningful :-). A name and form (like TG, Jerry, Harsha, etc....) is an occurrence in I AM. I AM is the tip of the iceberg, shining and reflecting in the light of the Self. It is the half open eye of the Self. Perhaps it is called the Original Nature or the Buddha nature. The Great Emptiness. Who can speak of it having meaning or being without meaning? It is constant within itself. Love Harsha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2000 Report Share Posted February 17, 2000 In a message dated 02/17/2000 5:37:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, janb writes: << unstoppable loss of energy >> Tell him i've an elixir for sale for the stopped-up energy <eg> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2000 Report Share Posted February 17, 2000 On 2/17/00 at 8:02 AM umbada wrote: ¤[...] ¤ ¤I don't feel I have to be careful. Instead, I feel I need to ¤be extremely careless. ¤ ¤I'll say whatever I want. "I am fully enlightened." And/Or, ¤"I am not enlightened." What's the big deal. Lightning ¤didn't strike me down. Although a bottle of lightening for ¤my coffee did fall on my head. ¤ ¤Jerry This reminds me of a paranormal healer in Rotterdam who was claiming to perceive if a chakra was opened or not and sure enough, his observations were right. Perhaps he can be invited to the retreat as impartial "enlightenment checker": he thought that the condition of "all chakras open" was a lethal disease (LOL). He never had met such a thing and was convinced death was near due to unstoppable loss of energy Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2000 Report Share Posted February 18, 2000 On 2/17/00 at 9:32 PM RainboLily wrote: ¤ ¤In a message dated 02/17/2000 5:37:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, ¤janb writes: ¤ ¤<< unstoppable loss of energy ¤ >> ¤Tell him i've an elixir for sale for the stopped-up energy <eg> He lost all energy in a relationship with two women, the struggle to get recognition as a paranormal and homoepathic healer and the work for his shop in organic food No chance to get stopped up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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