Guest guest Posted February 18, 2000 Report Share Posted February 18, 2000 > Meditation and Yoga are important and found in >various spiritual traditions in some guise or another. They are indeed very helpful. Ultimately, it seems each >person is attracted to that practice which is useful for them for the time being. Beauty is always in the "I" of >the Beholder. Where else could it be? :--). > >Love you brother >Harsha >Dan said: One can't still the mind sufficiently. It's not possible. > Only Original Stillness will do :-) R: Dan's statement makes sense from a 'Zen' perspective, and I'm probably taking his comments out of context. :-) :-) It's given that: a) there are numerous teachings about subtle effort or Yogas or techniques of meditation, b) there is a NonDuality, advaita, Zen, effortless teaching. For me, the interesting angle is not to competitively pit NonDuality against Yoga/effort, but to ask when is subtle effort appropriate and when is NonDuality appropriate? And which style of subtle effort should one use and I think this varies by individual. Both are absolutely essential, Yoga/subtle effort does not lead directly to the goal, but it is an essential intermediate step in stilling the mind. Without the intermediate preparation the final step most likely won't happen. Egoic attachment is such a clever, cunning, deceptive thing. The brain is so skillful at acquiring security & advancing the biological agenda of the individual, that this physical brain and it's seeking mechanisms can hold onto thoughts about NonDuality, just as with other prejudices, and fail to have the direct experience of NonDuality. Even advanced seekers (Xan posted an example about students of Papaji) are known to mistake an intellectual enlightenment for completion, or to mistake psychic/mystical experiences as completion. Flashy mystical experiences or genuine psychic powers can co-exist with egoic attachment! I appreciate your comment "it seems each person is attracted to that practice which is useful for them". This style of expansive loving positivity, complete in itself, is a natural complement to the style of leaving no stone unturned in passionate questioning. Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2000 Report Share Posted February 18, 2000 Roger Isaacs wrote: « Both are absolutely essential, Yoga/subtle effort does not lead directly to the goal, but it is an essential intermediate step in stilling the mind. Without the intermediate preparation the final step most likely won't happen. » Hello Roger, I do find very interesthing what you writte. Curious here... How do you know that withouth an intermediate preparation the final step most probably won't happen? The word "probably" is well chosen. The question may thus change, in who or what changes the laws of probabilities? if they do really exist... A snow strom in the desert is not considered a miracle according to the laws of probalities, possible but not likely... Why look only at the normal entropic flow on wich the mind is Normaly forged, and not at all that is offered as it comes as it is. Nothing less, nothing more. Always like to quote Voltaire in Candide here : "Better is the ennemy of Good". Curious, Antoine > > Egoic attachment is such a clever, cunning, deceptive thing. The brain > is so > skillful at acquiring security & advancing the biological agenda of > the > individual, that this physical brain and it's seeking mechanisms can > hold > onto thoughts about NonDuality, just as with other prejudices, and > fail to > have the direct experience of NonDuality. > > Even advanced seekers (Xan posted an example about students of Papaji) > are > known to mistake an intellectual enlightenment for completion, or to > mistake > psychic/mystical experiences as completion. Flashy mystical > experiences or > genuine psychic powers can co-exist with egoic attachment! > > I appreciate your comment "it seems each person is attracted to that > practice which is useful for them". This style of expansive loving > positivity, complete in itself, is a natural complement to the style > of > leaving no stone unturned in passionate questioning. > > Roger > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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