what Harsha says about silence

[Guest guest]

J M de la Rouviere wrote:

> You then speak of an Original Silence, prior to all manifestation. Perhaps

> you have experience of such silence. Perhaps you can relate what takes

> place between the relative silence of thought, and the manifestation of this

> Primordial Silence. What is your ACTUAL experience? I am very interested

> in this question.

>

> And why would you say the relative silence of thought is in no way 'a

> stepping stone to Original Silence'?

>

> Your valuable comments will be much appreciated.

>

> Love

>

> Moller

>

 

Hello Moller-Ji! You ask beautiful and profound questions always. A sure mark of

a great Yogi of much accomplishment! In order to frame the questions in the way

you do, you already have to have a wealth of experience, knowledge, and wisdom

and unerring intuition of your own nature.

 

Because you are very much interested, I will give you my ACTUAL experience even

though you have not asked me specifically.

 

The Original Silence is our nature. I know this Silence as my Own Self. How one

comes to Recognize It, depends on the nature of one's spiritual practices and

refining of one's intuition through the cultivation of awareness, introverted

and falling upon itself. Relative silence of thought or stillness of mind is a

worthy goal and indeed is considered a pre-requisite to Self Realization on the

Yogic paths. So one may certainly consider the stillness of the waves of the

mind as a stepping stone to the Recognizing the Primordial Silence, the Buddha

Nature.

 

One's own image is seen clearly in water when there are no waves. When the wind

is strong and the waves are splashing, the image is more difficult to make out

although it is still there. So although the Self is Ever present and Eternal as

the Original Being as the Great Emptiness, it must be intuited through the

appearance of the mind in the beginning with all its waves, before it becomes

clear that It is Always only the Self intuiting It Self. Once we intuit the

Self, however vaguely due to the vagaries of the mind, it leads to practices

that help to still the mind and the Self is

Recognized as Perfect Clarity It Self.

 

Fellowship, compassion, and friendship can all be helpful on the spiritual path

as we are all in a way on the same ship.

Still each is his own captain in the boat of life navigating in the ocean of

consciousness :-).

 

Love

Harsha

[Guest guest]

Dear Harsha,

 

Of course I asked you to tell us about your work and insights along these

lines. My sincere gratitude for your very beautiful posting.

 

May I just say that I am not sure what you mean by an 'accomplished yogi'.

I have no sense of myself as that. What could be said about my own enquiry

is that it has been with me well neigh all my life and that somehow

considerable clarity about the human situation has presented itself in the

process. The reason why I do seem to be able to explain things fairly well,

is because I have always felt that this enquiry was rather worthless if it

could not serve others. So I guess I have made a point of trying to keep

conceptual track of the rather subtle forms of enquiry, insights, and

experiences which have shown themselves along the way. It is exactly

because I am NOT a great yogi, but an ordinary mortal struggling entirely on

my own with the subtle issues around the question of fragmentation and

wholeness, effort/non-effort, thought/non-thought, doing and Being etc ,

etc and therefore standing right in the midst of the awakening human

condition, that I can explain things so well. My only and deepest hope is

that at some point in the future this clarity may mean something to another

human being who, like myself, is deeply concerned with the issues arising

out of this quest for wholeness which per definition must be prepared to go

into the gross and subtle forms of fragmentation which give us the sense

the dualistic vision.

 

For some more detail about all of this, please see my reply to Dan's equally

beautiful posting.

 

Harsha said:

>The Original Silence is our nature. I know this Silence as my Own Self. How

one comes to Recognize It, depends on the nature of one's spiritual

practices and refining of one's intuition through the cultivation of

awareness, introverted and falling upon itself. Relative silence of thought

or stillness of mind is a worthy goal and indeed is considered a

pre-requisite to Self Realization on the Yogic paths. So one may certainly

consider the stillness of the waves of the mind as a stepping stone to the

Recognizing the Primordial Silence, the Buddha Nature.

 

(Moller) For the sake of clarity, allow me just to say that I regard the

relative stillness of the mind not as a stepping stone to the recognition of

the Primordial Condition. On the contrary, this stillness is the final

barrier. It is the last, and very often most deluding, play of the great

illusion. The advantage of this profound stillness of mind is that it

offers a relatively easy disposion from which to abandon the whole project

of stilling the mind and stabilising the whole thought/attention mechanism.

It is this very stillness which needs to be abndoned for that which is

effortless and non-dual to begin to reveal itself (albeit to itself, at this

level of being). But I agree wholeheartedly with you that the practice (s)

leading up to this stillness of mind is in most cases the only path for

meditation to take. First narrowing the whole thing down to a point. Then

being able to hold it stable. Then sensing the relative wholeness of this

unity between attention and its object. And then abandoning the whole thing

through the collapse of attention and will. (Is this perhaps the 'implosion'

which you mentioned?) The silence which remains is then not created and not

only stands by itself, but is self aware.

 

Being touched by this Silence, it must now be intergrated into the world of

things and happenings. And at this point it seems inappropriate to talk of

silence. Here I prefer to use the word Presence. Silence has a quality of

passivity to it. Presence is silence transformed and becomes the functional

background and basis to one's daily living. It has the quality of the

coherency of the non-dualistic sense while it translates the world of

fragmentation into wholeness to an ever increasing degree.

 

In love,

 

Moller

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Harsha (Dr. Harsh K. Luthar) <hluthar

< >

20 February 2000 03:34

Re: Re: what Harsha says about silence

 

>"Harsha (Dr. Harsh K. Luthar)" <hluthar

>

>J M de la Rouviere wrote:

>

>> You then speak of an Original Silence, prior to all manifestation.

Perhaps

>> you have experience of such silence. Perhaps you can relate what takes

>> place between the relative silence of thought, and the manifestation of

this

>> Primordial Silence. What is your ACTUAL experience? I am very

interested

>> in this question.

>>

>> And why would you say the relative silence of thought is in no way 'a

>> stepping stone to Original Silence'?

>>

>> Your valuable comments will be much appreciated.

>>

>> Love

>>

>> Moller

>>

>

>Hello Moller-Ji! You ask beautiful and profound questions always. A sure

mark of a great Yogi of much accomplishment! In order to frame the questions

in the way you do, you already have to have a wealth of experience,

knowledge, and wisdom and unerring intuition of your own nature.

>

>Because you are very much interested, I will give you my ACTUAL experience

even though you have not asked me specifically.

>

>

>One's own image is seen clearly in water when there are no waves. When the

wind is strong and the waves are splashing, the image is more difficult to

make out although it is still there. So although the Self is Ever present

and Eternal as the Original Being as the Great Emptiness, it must be

intuited through the appearance of the mind in the beginning with all its

waves, before it becomes clear that It is Always only the Self intuiting It

Self. Once we intuit the Self, however vaguely due to the vagaries of the

mind, it leads to practices that help to still the mind and the Self is

>Recognized as Perfect Clarity It Self.

>

>Fellowship, compassion, and friendship can all be helpful on the spiritual

path as we are all in a way on the same ship.

>Still each is his own captain in the boat of life navigating in the ocean

of consciousness :-).

>

>Love

>Harsha

>

>

>

>//

>

>All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights,

perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside

back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than

the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness.

Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is

where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal

Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously

arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a.

>

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>

[Guest guest]

J M de la Rouviere wrote:(Moller)

 

For the sake of clarity, allow me just to say that I regard the

> relative stillness of the mind not as a stepping stone to the recognition of

> the Primordial Condition. On the contrary, this stillness is the final

> barrier. It is the last, and very often most deluding, play of the great

> illusion. The advantage of this profound stillness of mind is that it

> offers a relatively easy disposion from which to abandon the whole project

> of stilling the mind and stabilising the whole thought/attention mechanism.

> It is this very stillness which needs to be abndoned for that which is

> effortless and non-dual to begin to reveal itself (albeit to itself, at this

> level of being). But I agree wholeheartedly with you that the practice (s)

> leading up to this stillness of mind is in most cases the only path for

> meditation to take. First narrowing the whole thing down to a point. Then

> being able to hold it stable. Then sensing the relative wholeness of this

> unity between attention and its object. And then abandoning the whole thing

> through the collapse of attention and will. (Is this perhaps the 'implosion'

> which you mentioned?) The silence which remains is then not created and not

> only stands by itself, but is self aware.

 

Yes. Always. The Self-Aware Presence. Thank you Moller-Ji!

 

>

>

> Being touched by this Silence, it must now be intergrated into the world of

> things and happenings. And at this point it seems inappropriate to talk of

> silence. Here I prefer to use the word Presence. Silence has a quality of

> passivity to it. Presence is silence transformed and becomes the functional

> background and basis to one's daily living. It has the quality of the

> coherency of the non-dualistic sense while it translates the world of

> fragmentation into wholeness to an ever increasing degree.

>

> In love,

>

> Moller

 

Yes, I like the word Presence. All barriers to Self-Knowledge may be viewed as

stepping stones. There are many ways and forms of expression of the Nondual

Truth. Any form of genuine expression takes place knowing that the expressions

are not themselves the Truth.

 

Love to all

Harsha