Guest guest Posted February 20, 2000 Report Share Posted February 20, 2000 Silence is most natural. But it doesn't mean "no thinking". The majority of thinking revolves around one item or more of the "unholy trinity" ¤¤¤I, other(s), my feeling(s)¤¤¤. Unholy, because all wars and conflicts are regarding "I and mine..." or its plural "We and our..." so it is obvious that without "I", the sense of otherness has gone too and Silence just IS, irrespective of thinking. It will be clear that religions, systems of meditation and yogas are aiming to diminish the sense of "I" to such an extent that one becomes aware of the Silence. If this results in a preference/like for Silence above anything else, that could be called Grace because it will transform seeming austerities into a joy and "attainment" will be swift. On the lighter side, on the Internet there is no way to verify whether someone is speaking from experience or not: only in cases like M.M. in several news groups that is easy and even funny It will be obvious that more people wouldbe inclined to say (and probably are doing so) that spiritual life is for the spirit than to say it will affect mind and body, eventually to the extent that profound changes will emerge. Yet the changes in mind, body and behavior are the only "proof" as the Self is changeless: the immaculate silent Spirit has no need for a spiritual life, no need whatsoever Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2000 Report Share Posted February 21, 2000 At 04:23 PM 2/21/00 -0500, you wrote: >xanma > ><Jan: Silence is most natural. But it doesn't mean "no thinking". > >~ If one recognizes thoughts as waves arising out of the ocean of silent >consciousness, it becomes obvious that it is not necessary to stop the waves >for the ocean to be and know itself. > >xan D: There is only the ocean. The waves only appear as waves when there is time. Thoughts occur as time; thought is, when time is... no time, no "place" for thought to occur. Trying to stop thought is not no-thought. No-thought is ocean as ocean, pure and simple. The arising of thoughts, as you say, xan and jan, doesn't diminish the oceanness of ocean in any way. Each thought begins in no-thought and ends in no-thought. How long does a thought last? It can't be determined, because to assess the length of a thought requires thought. When does a thought begin and end? It can't be said, because to say when a thought begins, requires thought. What is the substance of thought? We don't know, because thought is involved in determining the nature of substances. Similarly, I can't say where I begin or end, the length of "my" duration, or the nature of my substance. How real is time, how real is thought? Time is as real as thought, and thought is as real as time. Yet, time and thought are appearance, dependent on the assumption of a position in the ocean. In the full "oceanness" of ocean, no position is possible. The ocean is thus thoughtless because immeasurable. The ocean is timeless because no beginning, no end. Thought arises as the ocean's self-display, as self-originated limitation allowing appearance. Thought appears because thought appears. It only appears because it appears to appear to itself. The measurable, that with qualities, is there because thought arises to assess boundaries and qualities. Thought is thoughtlessly occurring, time is timelessly appearing. Thought and time form the mind-body of human being. Our body is our thought, our being is our time, and thus, our "true reality" is ultimately not defined by mind or body, and is without definable substance or duration. Love, Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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