Guest guest Posted February 24, 2000 Report Share Posted February 24, 2000 Xan: > >~ There are only 2 things to do in awakening: > >Give attention to silent eternal awareness/beingness. > >See each pattern of false identity and let go. Xan says "only two things": "seeing the false and letting go" does not appear to be the only way. For example, the 'false identity' can melt away in the expansive feeling of love. Or, if one has innate skill with energetics (laya/kundalini yoga) the rising of subtle energy can terminate the 'false identity'. Neither of these approaches requires 'seeing the false' in the traditional 'neti-neti' or 'not this - not this' fashion. Also, there are many tantric sutras, one like: "On seeing the face (or keystrokes!?) of a long absent friend, permeate this joy". I think of many people here when I say "on seeing the keystrokes of an absent friend" !! IMHO "seeing the false" only works for a fraction of the people, others don't have the innate skill at that approach and are better off using one of the other equally valid approaches. ~ Roger, you are right, of course. There are many ways that the web of self-delusion gets undone. I revise my "2 things". The first stands as it is. The other becomes, the undoing of false identity. xan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2000 Report Share Posted February 25, 2000 How can there be "two" in nonduality - why not see "false identity" as an "expression" of eternal beingness. "On seeing the face of a long absent friend" - the face of the long absent friend is "recognized." Perhaps this means the Recognition of all that arises in awareness as nothing other than this awareness - and thus one is able to truly welcome all that arises, without exception, in the bright, empty feild of awareness. The temple bell and emptiness within the bell are mutually interdependent. Joyce > xanma > > Xan: >> >~ There are only 2 things to do in awakening: >> >Give attention to silent eternal awareness/beingness. >> >See each pattern of false identity and let go. > > Xan says "only two things": > > "seeing the false and letting go" does not appear to be the only way. For > example, the 'false identity' can melt away in the expansive feeling of > love. > > Or, if one has innate skill with energetics (laya/kundalini yoga) the rising > of subtle energy can terminate the 'false identity'. > > Neither of these approaches requires 'seeing the false' in the traditional > 'neti-neti' or 'not this - not this' fashion. > > Also, there are many tantric sutras, one like: "On seeing the face (or > keystrokes!?) of a long absent friend, permeate this joy". I think of many > people here when I say "on seeing the keystrokes of an absent friend" !! > > IMHO "seeing the false" only works for a fraction of the people, others > don't have the innate skill at that approach and are better off using one of > the other equally valid approaches. > > > ~ Roger, you are right, of course. > There are many ways that the web of self-delusion gets undone. > I revise my "2 things". > The first stands as it is. > The other becomes, the undoing of false identity. > > xan > > > > > ------ > Why wait for a credit decision? Get one instantly! Apply for > the Capital One 9.9% Fixed APR Visa Platinum! > http://click./1/1895/2/_/520931/_/951472193/ > ------ > > // > > All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, > perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside > back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than > the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of > Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is > Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality > of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, > spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. > > To from this list, go to the ONElist web site, at > www., and select the User Center link from > the menu bar > on the left. This menu will also let you change your > subscription > between digest and normal mode. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2000 Report Share Posted February 25, 2000 Dear Joyce, I think you are somewhat mixing your categories here. 'False identity' is the position prior to the 'realisation' of what you have referred to as the condition of 'mutually interdependent' arising, where the content of consciousness is not separate from consciousness itself. That is, the sound and the silence is one joint phenomenon and do not arise sequencially. So false identity as a reality of living experience cannot be the case in such a condition of undivided being. The two are mutually exclusive. And while false identity is the case, they are indeed two, not one. Only from the point of view (or as my friend Dan might have qualified such a statement,' from the 'non-point of view') of wholeness can forms of fragmentation be seen to be whole. But seeing, when directed from the fragmented disposition of I -consciousness, can only present two. The observer and the observed. False identity indicates a disposition of being totally identified with duality and as such cannot be whole. The moment false identity is seen by wholeness for what it is, the latter falls away and only wholeness is the case. J. Krishnamurti has said: The seeing of the false, IS the truth. Perhaps this is what he meant. Love, Moller Joyce Short <insight < >; < > 25 February 2000 03:25 Re: [NDS] self-investigation >"Joyce Short" <insight > >How can there be "two" in nonduality - why not see "false identity" as an >"expression" of eternal beingness. "On seeing the face of a long absent >friend" - the face of the long absent friend is "recognized." Perhaps this >means the Recognition of all that arises in awareness as nothing other than >this awareness - and thus one is able to truly welcome all that arises, >without exception, in the bright, empty feild of awareness. The temple >bell and emptiness within the bell are mutually interdependent. > >Joyce > > >> xanma >> >> Xan: >>> >~ There are only 2 things to do in awakening: >>> >Give attention to silent eternal awareness/beingness. >>> >See each pattern of false identity and let go. >> >> Xan says "only two things": >> >> "seeing the false and letting go" does not appear to be the only way. For >> example, the 'false identity' can melt away in the expansive feeling of >> love. >> >> Or, if one has innate skill with energetics (laya/kundalini yoga) the rising >> of subtle energy can terminate the 'false identity'. >> >> Neither of these approaches requires 'seeing the false' in the traditional >> 'neti-neti' or 'not this - not this' fashion. >> >> Also, there are many tantric sutras, one like: "On seeing the face (or >> keystrokes!?) of a long absent friend, permeate this joy". I think of many >> people here when I say "on seeing the keystrokes of an absent friend" !! >> >> IMHO "seeing the false" only works for a fraction of the people, others >> don't have the innate skill at that approach and are better off using one of >> the other equally valid approaches. >> >> >> ~ Roger, you are right, of course. >> There are many ways that the web of self-delusion gets undone. >> I revise my "2 things". >> The first stands as it is. >> The other becomes, the undoing of false identity. >> >> xan >> >> >> >> >> ------ >> Why wait for a credit decision? Get one instantly! Apply for >> the Capital One 9.9% Fixed APR Visa Platinum! >> http://click./1/1895/2/_/520931/_/951472193/ >> ------ >> >> // >> >> All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, >> perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside >> back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than >> the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of >> Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is >> Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality >> of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, >> spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to >a. >> >> To from this list, go to the ONElist web site, at >> www., and select the User Center link from >> the menu bar >> on the left. This menu will also let you change your >> subscription >> between digest and normal mode. >> >> >> >> > >------ >eGroups. >The best way to communicate by email in a group. >Start your own free email group! >http://click./1/1885/2/_/520931/_/951485145/ >------ > >// > >All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. > >To from this list, go to the ONElist web site, at > www., and select the User Center link from the menu bar > on the left. This menu will also let you change your subscription > between digest and normal mode. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2000 Report Share Posted February 25, 2000 Dear Moller, Thank you for your beautiful clarity, and of course you are quite right and I was very muddled in what I was trying to say. I note that I am reacting to something that I read in a chat a few days ago somewhat to the general tone that neurotics and those confused and needy are not welcome at satsangh...a sort of sense of "them" that didn't belong, didn't get "it" etc. And, a kind of an attempt to be awareness of oneself as a kind of bare awareness, empty of what it is aware of, washed clean of all thoughts, all things. When I remember to allow it, open to it, I experience the presence of awareness that is Wholeness with nothing and no one left out. As someone pointed out to me, looking out now, I have what others appear to be, looking in, I am what they are. But, when I identify with those left out - and don't wish to identify with those perceived to be doing the exclusion - pain arises. I find it very difficult to welcome pain as part of the Whole - well, some kinds of pain much easier than others. Which - of course, as usual - is the arising of fear....so I allow fear and welcome it - but, this still doesnt help me to accept/respond to what I perceive as exclusionary activity, the "false", in the name of spiritual growth. And yes, I note awareness arising as that and all perception - but injustice in the world continues - how does the student welcome this as Wholeness? I can usually see when my perceptions are "personal", distorted and confused - but when others seem agree in the perception of the event such as what Im writing about - then there must be some truth there beyond any personal projection? Ive never been able to resolve this - you see, muddled. Joyce > > I think you are somewhat mixing your categories here. > > 'False identity' is the position prior to the 'realisation' of what you have > referred to as the condition of 'mutually interdependent' arising, where the > content of consciousness is not separate from consciousness itself. That > is, the sound and the silence is one joint phenomenon and do not arise > sequencially. > > So false identity as a reality of living experience cannot be the case in > such a condition of undivided being. The two are mutually exclusive. And > while false identity is the case, they are indeed two, not one. Only from > the point of view (or as my friend Dan might have qualified such a > statement,' from the 'non-point of view') of wholeness can forms of > fragmentation be seen to be whole. But seeing, when directed from the > fragmented disposition of I -consciousness, can only present two. The > observer and the observed. False identity indicates a disposition of being > totally identified with duality and as such cannot be whole. The moment > false identity is seen by wholeness for what it is, the latter falls away > and only wholeness is the case. J. Krishnamurti has said: The seeing of the > false, IS the truth. Perhaps this is what he meant. > > Love, > > Moller > > > > > > Joyce Short <insight > < >; > < > > 25 February 2000 03:25 > Re: [NDS] self-investigation > > >>"Joyce Short" <insight >> >>How can there be "two" in nonduality - why not see "false identity" as an >>"expression" of eternal beingness. "On seeing the face of a long absent >>friend" - the face of the long absent friend is "recognized." Perhaps this >>means the Recognition of all that arises in awareness as nothing other than >>this awareness - and thus one is able to truly welcome all that arises, >>without exception, in the bright, empty feild of awareness. The temple >>bell and emptiness within the bell are mutually interdependent. >> >>Joyce >> >> >>> xanma >>> >>> Xan: >>>> >~ There are only 2 things to do in awakening: >>>> >Give attention to silent eternal awareness/beingness. >>>> >See each pattern of false identity and let go. >>> >>> Xan says "only two things": >>> >>> "seeing the false and letting go" does not appear to be the only way. For >>> example, the 'false identity' can melt away in the expansive feeling of >>> love. >>> >>> Or, if one has innate skill with energetics (laya/kundalini yoga) the > rising >>> of subtle energy can terminate the 'false identity'. >>> >>> Neither of these approaches requires 'seeing the false' in the > traditional >>> 'neti-neti' or 'not this - not this' fashion. >>> >>> Also, there are many tantric sutras, one like: "On seeing the face (or >>> keystrokes!?) of a long absent friend, permeate this joy". I think of > many >>> people here when I say "on seeing the keystrokes of an absent friend" !! >>> >>> IMHO "seeing the false" only works for a fraction of the people, others >>> don't have the innate skill at that approach and are better off using one > of >>> the other equally valid approaches. >>> >>> >>> ~ Roger, you are right, of course. >>> There are many ways that the web of self-delusion gets undone. >>> I revise my "2 things". >>> The first stands as it is. >>> The other becomes, the undoing of false identity. >>> >>> xan >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------ >>> Why wait for a credit decision? Get one instantly! Apply for >>> the Capital One 9.9% Fixed APR Visa Platinum! >>> http://click./1/1895/2/_/520931/_/951472193/ >>> ------ >>> >>> // >>> >>> All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, >>> perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and > subside >>> back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different > than >>> the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of >>> Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is >>> Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the > Finality >>> of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, >>> spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to >>a. >>> >>> To from this list, go to the ONElist web site, at >>> www., and select the User Center link from >>> the menu bar >>> on the left. This menu will also let you change your >>> subscription >>> between digest and normal mode. >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >>------ >>eGroups. >>The best way to communicate by email in a group. >>Start your own free email group! >>http://click./1/1885/2/_/520931/_/951485145/ >>------ >> >>// >> >>All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, > perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside > back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than > the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. > Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is > where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal > Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously > arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. >> >>To from this list, go to the ONElist web site, at >> www., and select the User Center link from > the menu bar >> on the left. This menu will also let you change your > subscription >> between digest and normal mode. >> >> >> >> > > > ------ > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, > no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the > credit youdeserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: > http://click./1/912/2/_/520931/_/951495577/ > ------ > > // > > All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, > perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside > back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than > the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of > Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is > Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality > of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, > spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. > > To from this list, go to the ONElist web site, at > www., and select the User Center link from > the menu bar > on the left. This menu will also let you change your > subscription > between digest and normal mode. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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