Guest guest Posted March 3, 2000 Report Share Posted March 3, 2000 Dear David, You mentioned: <Then one day something popped. Suddenly there was not need to do the alignment because there wasn't a separation between "my" attention and this basic awareness. (snip) ~~ In the early days of my own enquiry I did something similar during my practice as what you have described here. However, the sense I got was not so much that there is this underlying 'awareness' prior to everything, but rather that I could never find this awareness or consciousness. The harder I looked, more I only found just appearance. Even up to the present, I have not managed ever to sense this underlying awareness or consciousness Maharshi seem to refer to. All that remains when things get quiet and open, is What is. I cannot even say of myself that I am conscious. At least not if I take present evidence as my guide. This was just a side comment, to your very beautiful explanation of how you went about things. Some questions though. When this thing 'popped' what was the actual experience you felt. And also did this experience last for any length of time? Is it still with you? And lastly, has it changed your entire relationship to the world of everyday living? Kindly try to give me some feedback on these questions. In love, Moller David Hodges <dhodges < > 02 March 2000 04:54 Re: Who am I? >David Hodges <dhodges > >Hi Victor, > You asked for actual experiences.... > First let me ask this: Did you ever hear a nearby loud, startling >noise? If so, did you notice that the noise was registering in awareness >BEFORE you actually "noticed" it on a conscious, reactive level? > Or if not that, did you ever notice that, say, music was playing in the >background of a store you were shopping in and that, on some level you >were aware of it even though you weren't paying attention to it? > Okay, so my first discovery is that there is a root level of awareness >going on ALL THE TIME. And I discovered that this root level of awareness >was neutral, it just happened, it wasn't in any way involved in the "I" >thought. So I developed the working hypothesis that this Awareness is the >true level of Being, which consciousness and thinking observe, ride on, and >attempt to direct and control. > So my practice was this: > I would bring my attention back again and again to this root level of >awareness. I would do this while meditating. I would do this while driving. >While walking (this was a particularly good time) While falling asleep. >While making love. > My inquiry was something like "Is this I AM?" I would realize that >whatever I was thinking about or feeling was not on the level of this root >awareness and so I would refocus, even take a deep breath into it. > I did this for most of a year. I got more and more used to aligning my >focussed attention with this root level of awareness.Then one day something >popped. Suddenly there was not need to do the alignment because there >wasn't a separation between "my" attention and this basic awareness. This >"pop" was not a result of an intellectual breakthrough or anything. It just >happened one day. > This is the way I relate it to Ramana's self-inquiry. What I was doing, >as I went through that whole process, was aligning my sense of "I AM" away >from the separate self and more towards the field-sense of impersonal >Awareness. It's easy to do. Just notice that you are noticing. And keep >coming back to that noticing. Keep coming back to the awareness that you >are always Aware. > I think the reason people don't do it via this path is that it seems too >simple. But when you actually try it the dynamics it sets up are quite >powerful. > >Best wishes, >David > >>Victor Torrico <vtorrico >> >>Now I'm a nuts and bolts kinda guy. What are the steps to >>be used as to how this question is actually applied? I >>would actually like to give this method a thourough trial to >>see what happens. I understand that one must do their own >>work to arrive at an unveiling of the non-dual. One cannot >>simply have another pour non-duality into their ear through a >>funnel, metaphorically speaking of course. Now I would >>really appreciate not simply hearing that "there is nothing >>to be done" since I have tried that and have not been able >>to unveil non-duality. >> >>Would those who ACTUALLY have used this method please >>describe what they actually did and how it worked for them. >>This would indeed be a great kindness and would really >>benefit others. All pointers to applying this method are >>sincerely appreciated. >> >>Victor > > >------ >GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% >Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! >http://click./1/937/3/_/520931/_/952008858/ >------ > >// > >All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. > >To from this list, go to the ONElist web site, at > www., and select the User Center link from the menu bar > on the left. This menu will also let you change your subscription > between digest and normal mode. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2000 Report Share Posted March 3, 2000 In a message dated 03/03/2000 6:50:33 AM Eastern Standard Time, vtorrico writes: << DH: First let me ask this: Did you ever hear a nearby loud, startling noise? If so, did you notice that the noise was registering in awareness BEFORE you actually "noticed" it on a conscious, reactive level? >> Did you see the article posted at Science at the BBC on the Net on Physics and sound? It's really great, have been thinking as Atziluth the 4th World of Qabalah emanates from what the DSS called the 5th World, which no one has written about... perhaps is light and sound... Love and Light Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2000 Report Share Posted March 3, 2000 Robert Weil <Robert_Weil >RW: What you say has reminded me of a similar experience, many years ago. It was a hot summer's day, I was sitting by a gentle stream, meditating by means of a mantra "who am I?". (Not a usual practice for me, btw, then). I genuinely wanted to know who I was/am, and was not going to be put off by easy or standard answers. This meant that as the mind brought me answers, in its response to my thought, I rejected them and carried on. It broke me through to another state that contained no reflection of "who I was". I just was. Everything became simple, clear and without need to discuss. I could read ppl as if they spoke their being to me as they passed. But it was just part of being myself. Without holding an identity. <RW: VT: Did you just say to yourself that the answer is "not this" each time an answer arose or was it that you rejected any answer that occured within the thought process? VT: >RW: I was surprized how animals behaved toward me after that, unafraid and coming up to me. It seemed that I had become natural. <RW: We have a Tibetan monk who is visiting. Our dog Boots, who normally is afraid of strangers, came up to him immediately. Victor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2000 Report Share Posted March 3, 2000 At 07:43 03/03/00 -0500, you wrote: >Victor Torrico <vtorrico > > Hi Victor, >Robert Weil <Robert_Weil > >>RW: What you say has reminded me of a similar experience, many years ago. > snip>This meant that as the mind brought me answers, in its response to my >thought, I rejected them and carried on. It broke me through to another >state that contained no reflection of "who I was". I just was. Everything >became simple, clear and without need to discuss. I could read ppl as if >they spoke their being to me as they passed. But it was just part of being >myself. Without holding an identity. <RW: > >VT: Did you just say to yourself that the answer is "not >this" each time an answer arose or was it that you rejected >any answer that occured within the thought process? VT: In focussing on the question, I kept returning to it. When a response came to the question, I would see it, but discard it. (not this, not that, I guess). I was effectively discarding all notions I could think about who I was. Left me with nothing to hang onto, but there I was! And I knew it could not be labelled, since the labels had no reality except to themselves. > >>RW: I was surprized how animals behaved toward me after that, unafraid and >coming up to me. It seemed that I had become natural. <RW: > >We have a Tibetan monk who is visiting. Our dog Boots, who >normally is afraid of strangers, came up to him immediately. I can grok that. Had a similar experience on that day with a dog. btw, I found myself repeating the name "Shiva", which was odd as I didn't have any knowledge of Hindu deities. Isn't Shiva the "destroyer of worlds"? My "world" was annihilated, after all, I was not "me" anymore... Anyone add to that, pls? Love Rob > >Victor > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2000 Report Share Posted March 4, 2000 Victor Torrico [vtorrico] Thursday, March 02, 2000 7:02 AM Who am I? Victor Torrico <vtorrico Hello, My understanding of the question "Who am I?" is that it is a skillful means taught by Sri Ramana Maharshi which is to be used to unveil one's true non-dual condition. My impression is that the mind which consists of the thought processes is to be removed or done away with. My impression is that it is also possible to use the mind to continue doing those things required by ordinary everyday life. I'm confused. Now I'm a nuts and bolts kinda guy. What are the steps to be used as to how this question is actually applied? I would actually like to give this method a thourough trial to see what happens. I understand that one must do their own work to arrive at an unveiling of the non-dual. One cannot simply have another pour non-duality into their ear through a funnel, metaphorically speaking of course. Now I would really appreciate not simply hearing that "there is nothing to be done" since I have tried that and have not been able to unveil non-duality. Would those who ACTUALLY have used this method please describe what they actually did and how it worked for them. This would indeed be a great kindness and would really benefit others. All pointers to applying this method are sincerely appreciated. Victor Thank you for asking some important questions Victor. I will forward your post to other lists. David Hodges, Moller, Roger, Jan, Geovani and others on a have given the benefit of their experience. Due to time constraints, not everyone can get into important conversations. I would recommend to anyone interested in the inquiry method to read the classic "Talks with Ramana Maharshi." Also "Be As You Are" is an important recent compilation of conversations with Ramana (By David Godhead) touching on virtually every subject from Kundalini Shakti, Nirvikalpa Samadhi, Gurus, to Self-Realization. Grace is Ever-Present. Love to all Harsha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2000 Report Share Posted March 5, 2000 Dear Victor, I chipped into a conversation you had with David regarding his experience, and I feel that somehow your initial question has not really been addressed in the subsequent discussions. You asked: <. My impression is that the mind which consists of the thought processes is to be removed or done away with. My impression is that it is also possible to use the mind to continue doing those things required by ordinary everyday life. I'm confused. ~~ The question is not a question of removing the mind as thought. If you were to do that, you would not be able to ask the question:Who am I?" The way see this enquiry is that the question is asked by thought, but implied in Maharshi's technique is the fact the question cannot be answered by thought. The'answer ' is thus experiental. To ask the question Who am I, is for Maharshi a simple matter of really trying to find this 'thing' called 'I', and then to finally come to the end of the search after reaching out in all directions, just to discover that this 'I' cannot be found. In this ending of the search, thought becomes naturally quiet and (may I add speculatively) it is possible after that to again allow thought to operate when needed. But then my impression is that thought will operate in the context of the whole, and not from the centre it has created for itself prior to the realisation of non-duality. If this line of argument suits your present enquiry, we could proceed if you like. Love Moller Victor Torrico <vtorrico < > 02 March 2000 01:54 Who am I? >Victor Torrico <vtorrico > > >Hello, > >My understanding of the question "Who am I?" is that it is a >skillful means taught by Sri Ramana Maharshi which is to be >used to unveil one's true non-dual condition. My impression >is that the mind which consists of the thought processes is >to be removed or done away with. My impression is that it >is also possible to use the mind to continue doing those >things required by ordinary everyday life. I'm confused. > >Now I'm a nuts and bolts kinda guy. What are the steps to >be used as to how this question is actually applied? I >would actually like to give this method a thourough trial to >see what happens. I understand that one must do their own >work to arrive at an unveiling of the non-dual. One cannot >simply have another pour non-duality into their ear through a >funnel, metaphorically speaking of course. Now I would >really appreciate not simply hearing that "there is nothing >to be done" since I have tried that and have not been able >to unveil non-duality. > >Would those who ACTUALLY have used this method please >describe what they actually did and how it worked for them. >This would indeed be a great kindness and would really >benefit others. All pointers to applying this method are >sincerely appreciated. > >Victor > >------ >GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates >as low as 0.0% Intro APR and no hidden fees. >Apply NOW! >http://click./1/975/3/_/520931/_/951998055/ >------ > >// > >All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. > >To from this list, go to the ONElist web site, at > www., and select the User Center link from the menu bar > on the left. This menu will also let you change your subscription > between digest and normal mode. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2000 Report Share Posted March 5, 2000 J M de la Rouviere <moller Dear Victor, I chipped into a conversation you had with David regarding his experience, and I feel that somehow your initial question has not really been addressed in the subsequent discussions. You asked: <. My impression is that the mind which consists of the thought processes is to be removed or done away with. My impression is that it is also possible to use the mind to continue doing those things required by ordinary everyday life. I'm confused. Moller> ~~ The question is not a question of removing the mind as thought. If you were to do that, you would not be able to ask the question:Who am I?" The way see this enquiry is that the question is asked by thought, but implied in Maharshi's technique is the fact the question cannot be answered by thought. The'answer ' is thus experiental. To ask the question Who am I, is for Maharshi a simple matter of really trying to find this 'thing' called 'I', and then to finally come to the end of the search after reaching out in all directions, just to discover that this 'I' cannot be found. In this ending of the search, thought becomes naturally quiet and (may I add speculatively) it is possible after that to again allow thought to operate when needed. But then my impression is that thought will operate in the context of the whole, and not from the centre it has created for itself prior to the realisation of non-duality. If this line of argument suits your present enquiry, we could proceed if you like. <Moller Victor> Hi Moller, Sounds great to me. It seems that after the 'I' is not found and the mind naturally quiets then perhaps the discovery is made that all that remains is simply pure awareness. What I just experienced was that thoughts simply come and go within that awareness without disturbing that awareness. The awareness is primary and the thoughts are secondary. The awareness itself is never disturbed by any type of thought. Speculatively the awareness is simply all that is and everything simply occurs within the awareness and is not separate/non-dual from the awareness. When thoughts become primary or strongly emotional, such as angry thoughts, then the awareness becomes veiled by these thoughts even though the awareness is still there and not disturbed. We are now back into the thought sense of 'I' which of course does not exist. Just this morning I discovered a great description of what seems to be going on at the following web site: http://www.livingessence.com/HowAboutNow/cooc.htm It's called "Coocoo Banana" and it's from Arjuna Nick Ardagh's book "How About Now". It's super funny but highly relevant. <Victor To everyone on the list, We will be leaving in a day or two for a two week holiday to visit our son and his family in Austin, Texas. I will try to answer all email when I return. Victor >Victor Torrico <vtorrico > > >Hello, > >My understanding of the question "Who am I?" is that it is a >skillful means taught by Sri Ramana Maharshi which is to be >used to unveil one's true non-dual condition. My impression >is that the mind which consists of the thought processes is >to be removed or done away with. My impression is that it >is also possible to use the mind to continue doing those >things required by ordinary everyday life. I'm confused. > >Now I'm a nuts and bolts kinda guy. What are the steps to >be used as to how this question is actually applied? I >would actually like to give this method a thourough trial to >see what happens. I understand that one must do their own >work to arrive at an unveiling of the non-dual. One cannot >simply have another pour non-duality into their ear through a >funnel, metaphorically speaking of course. Now I would >really appreciate not simply hearing that "there is nothing >to be done" since I have tried that and have not been able >to unveil non-duality. > >Would those who ACTUALLY have used this method please >describe what they actually did and how it worked for them. >This would indeed be a great kindness and would really >benefit others. All pointers to applying this method are >sincerely appreciated. > >Victor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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