Guest guest Posted March 4, 2000 Report Share Posted March 4, 2000 Thank you Tony, Bruce, Gloria, Bo, Dan, Dharma, David, Geovani, Greg, Mira, Gloria, Roger, Moller, Luan and others for your recent posts. Wonderful conversations and thank you. I want to write this post for Jerry (GCWein at aol) who recently joined . Jerry (GCWein) wrote me a note some days ago telling me that he would stay for a while on the list, if others also shared stories of experiences with him. I really want to hold on to Jerry and if we could get some stories out here that would be nice. Tony, Jill, TG, Dharma, all of you - what do you say? We have some real master story tellers here, I know. TG! TG! Jill! Jill! Jan! Xan, Dan!.........Well anyone really! Jerry is an incredibly bright and a very special person. He has been going through Kundalini processes for about 7 years with great courage, patience, and humanity. Sometimes it seems we have no choice in such matters. People experience Kundalini awakenings in different manners. Many teachers and gurus emphasize different types of meditation and speak of Kundalini Shakti as a force that they have mastered. Often such claims of the "masters" are ego-based and misleading. It is my experience that spontaneous awakenings in certain circumstances can lead to much suffering. Over 25 years of observation has led me to believe that gentle, nonviolent and nonforcing methods of meditation and Shakti awakenings are suitable for most people. Although mild pranayama has its uses, without proper care and guidance, the advanced breathing exercises with retention can be problematic for some people and even dangerous as they directly impact the brain and the heart. I wrote extensively on this topic some years ago but have not emphasized that recently. Almost three years ago there were quite a few conversations on Kundalini and Pranayama that I engaged in on the k-list offering the lessons of practical experience. Over the next 3 months or so, I will add the essential content of those conversations to my existing paper on Kundalini which has been on the web for well over two years or so. The revised paper should be even more informative and useful for people interested in Kundalini Yoga, Tantra, and Pranayama in the context of Self-Realization. Also over the next week, I will share a story or two about my experiences. See Jerry! We aim to please. :--). Love Harsha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2000 Report Share Posted March 4, 2000 Hi Harsha, >I want to write this post for Jerry (GCWein at >aol) who recently joined . > >Jerry (GCWein) wrote me a note some days ago telling me that he would stay >for a while on the list, if others also shared stories of experiences with >him. I really want to hold on to Jerry and if we could get some stories out >here that would be nice. Yes, yes!! > People >experience Kundalini awakenings in different manners. Good topic! I'll put something together... > Many teachers and >gurus emphasize different types of meditation and speak of Kundalini Shakti >as a force that they have mastered. Often such claims of the "masters" are >ego-based and misleading. My idea of perfection (in samsara) is to always keep learning and growing and evolving. If there's no more change and growth... well, there's a word for that... "dead." )) Many people revere DK, who dictated the Alice A. Bailey books, as a Master... but in his own intro to the books he said, "I am a Tibetan disciple of a certain degree.... I am a brother of yours, who has travelled a little longer upon the Path than has the average student, and has therefore incurred greater responsibilities.... My work is to teach...." >Also over the next week, I will share a story or two about my experiences. Great! >See Jerry! We aim to please. :--). Story coming up. Love, Dharma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2000 Report Share Posted March 4, 2000 Harsha wrote: > Also over the next week, I will share a story or two about my experiences. > > See Jerry! We aim to please. :--). > > Love Harsha, ZenListMaster, amongst other things :-), My Heart hears Yours! Yes, let us tell these Stories! I was drawn to write down something of mine own, recently. I would be honored to share with you Jerry. It is a work in progress. Let's just All share. Sharin' Project, freeheart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2000 Report Share Posted March 6, 2000 In a message dated 3/4/00 4:08:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, harsha-hkl writes: << Jerry (GCWein) wrote me a note some days ago telling me that he would stay for a while on the list, if others also shared stories of experiences with him. I really want to hold on to Jerry and if we could get some stories out here that would be nice. Tony, Jill, TG, Dharma, all of you - what do you say? We have some real master story tellers here, I know. TG! TG! Jill! Jill! Jan! Xan, Dan!.........Well anyone really! Jerry is an incredibly bright and a very special person. He has been going through Kundalini processes for about 7 years with great courage, patience, and humanity. Sometimes it seems we have no choice in such matters. People experience Kundalini awakenings in different manners. Many teachers and gurus emphasize different types of meditation and speak of Kundalini Shakti as a force that they have mastered. Often such claims of the "masters" are ego-based and misleading. It is my experience that spontaneous awakenings in certain circumstances can lead to much suffering. Over 25 years of observation has led me to believe that gentle, nonviolent and nonforcing methods of meditation and Shakti awakenings are suitable for most people. Although mild pranayama has its uses, without proper care and guidance, the advanced breathing exercises with retention can be problematic for some people and even dangerous as they directly impact the brain and the heart. I wrote extensively on this topic some years ago but have not emphasized that recently. Almost three years ago there were quite a few conversations on Kundalini and Pranayama that I engaged in on the k-list offering the lessons of practical experience. Over the next 3 months or so, I will add the essential content of those conversations to my existing paper on Kundalini which has been on the web for well over two years or so. The revised paper should be even more informative and useful for people interested in Kundalini Yoga, Tantra, and Pranayama in the context of Self-Realization. Also over the next week, I will share a story or two about my experiences. Dear Harsha, You're killing me with kindness here, :) and surely exaggerating my value to the list. l don't really expect a torrent of stories, aimed at making sure l remain (LOL!). And l'm sure those who don't already know how UNincredibly bright l am will find out soon enough, ha ha. l appreciate your call for more stories. l'll also be happy just to see more experientially based comments. As you say, l'm just trying to learn - day to day - what the k process is hopefully teaching me. lt - and my body - have been my teacher for some time now, which is probably why it's difficult for me to participate in most discussions involving spiritual concepts. l guess l've always wanted to learn from direct experience - that's what prompted me to take up hatha and eastern practices 16 yrs ago, in addition to the fact that l'd been forced to give up piano by tendonitis and needed to fill a huge void in my life. l've always been a doubter, not one to whom faith comes easily, and figured the eastern traditions offered the best hope of direct religious experience. So when my k process began in 92, l thought " Finally, here l go...self realization is at hand ... l can't wait!", only to find l was being offered something else. Rather than a series of mystical experiences, l was given a succession of losses. l thought k was in part a replacement, a reward for the previous losses of musical expression and a romantic soul mate, but instead it only intensified the process of being stripped, grieving, accepting and feeling grateful. This is all l've learned so far. l have much more compassion for others' suffering, feel a much stronger connection to the natural world and more love for animals and children. That's good, but one doesn't need k to feel this way, and it surely doesn't qualify as self realization according to any esoteric tradition. l've had a growing feeling in recent years that the various spiritual paths, altho they're different, feel more and more the same to me - that l could follow any path and it wouldn't matter, even tho l don't claim to know where they lead in terms of mystical experience. lt just feels that my heart's been shattered enough that it doesn't matter. Do others have this feeling? Harsha, what you've said about k makes complete sense to me - l wish l would've read your writings on it years ago! Where on the web is your current writing about k? l look forward to reading it, as well as any additions in the future. love, jerrysan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2000 Report Share Posted March 6, 2000 In a message dated 03/06/2000 3:54:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, GCWein1111 writes: > l've had a growing feeling in recent years > that the various spiritual paths, altho they're different, feel more and > more the same to me - that l could follow any path and it wouldn't matter, even > tho l don't claim to know where they lead in terms of mystical experience. > lt just feels that my heart's been shattered enough that it doesn't matter. Do > others have this feeling? Hi Jerrysan, I do. Your heart was shattered... mine was my mind. Losing your mind for awhile certainly helps one value sanity above all else, including any mystical experiences and raising the kundalini. Your heart's been shattered, but your love for nature, animals, kids, and I'm sure much more, is stronger than before. They say that when you break your arm, after healing, the place of the healed fracture is stronger than any other part. I see this was true with you. What a blessing! Much Love, xxxtg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2000 Report Share Posted March 6, 2000 > lt > just feels that my heart's been shattered enough that it doesn't matter. Do > others have this feeling? > > love, > jerrysan > > > jerrysan! I've agreed with the call for more living stories. Stories that continually shatter My Heart, like yours, today. At a certain point, All that remains, is Sharing. Thanks, freeheart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2000 Report Share Posted March 7, 2000 .. .. .. Dear Jerry: Your 'experience' is very similar to my own. After years of sadhana k began to rise in a wonderfully blissful manner and I felt as if finally I would walk above life participating in joyous abandon. However, I then started to experience losses and changes that altered my life completely. In the process there appeared to be little kundalini activity just constant challenges to my perceptions and reactions along with emotional grief. I too, looked at the different spiritual paths and realized they were all the same no matter what their differences. I came to an awareness that there are certain times whereby we must walk totally alone and face whatever 'ego' qualities keep us from being truly 'one'. When I finally came to the point that 'it didn't' matter I didn't know if I was looking at wisdom or depression. From that feeling of it 'doesn't matter' came the most wonderful sense of freedom and detachment. The life of tragedy turned into a comedy and then simply into one script in an infinite play. Thanks for your honest sharing. Linda >So when my k >process began in 92, l thought " Finally, here l go...self realization is at >hand ... l can't wait!", only to find l was being offered something else. >Rather than a series of mystical experiences, l was given a succession >of >losses. l thought k was in part a replacement, a reward for the previous >losses of musical expression and a romantic soul mate, but instead it >only >intensified the process of being stripped, grieving, accepting and feeling >grateful. > This is all l've learned so far. l >have much more compassion for others' suffering, feel a much stronger >connection to the natural world and more love for animals and children. >That's good, but one doesn't need k to feel this way, and it surely >doesn't >qualify as self realization according to any esoteric tradition. > l've had a growing feeling in recent years >that the various spiritual paths, altho they're different, feel more and >more the same to me - that l could follow any path and it wouldn't >matter, even >tho l don't claim to know where they lead in terms of mystical >experience. lt >just feels that my heart's been shattered enough that it doesn't matter. >Do others have this feeling? .. love, jerrysan ------ DON'T HATE YOUR RATE! Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click./1/2120/3/_/520931/_/952373398/ ------ // All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. To from this list, go to the ONElist web site, at www., and select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. This menu will also let you change your subscription between digest and normal mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2000 Report Share Posted March 7, 2000 leteegee (AT) aol (DOT) com wrote: leteegee (AT) aol (DOT) com In a message dated 03/06/2000 3:54:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, GCWein1111 (AT) aol (DOT) com writes: > l've had a growing feeling in recent years > that the various spiritual paths, altho they're different, feel more and > more the same to me - that l could follow any path and it wouldn't matter, even > tho l don't claim to know where they lead in terms of mystical experience. > lt just feels that my heart's been shattered enough that it doesn't matter. Do > others have this feeling? Hi Jerrysan, I do. Your heart was shattered... mine was my mind. Losing your mind for awhile certainly helps one value sanity above all else, including any mystical experiences and raising the kundalini. Your heart's been shattered, but your love for nature, animals, kids, and I'm sure much more, is stronger than before. They say that when you break your arm, after healing, the place of the healed fracture is stronger than any other part. I see this was true with you. What a blessing! Just wanted to comment on the scattered mind, having experienced it deeply also. On the healing process, it also seems from my experience that sanity comes to be valued above all else. I call it the "moral provisoir" (temporary moral), in correlation to the temporary moral Descartes created to allow himself to sink into his meditations, and come out with his Cogito: "I Think for I am". It's a general impression I have that Descartes seems to have bounced on the Cogito, not going "behind" it, into losing ones mind, finding and melting with Chaos, becoming pure synchronicity, psychosis... Sanity becomes then a God we make, at the least an ethic we apply to come back to it. And with time the value of sanity, as something above all else, comes to vanish, as we come to find out that we can lose it, and it will come back, if it is simply allowed. The fear of loosing sanity is a great fear and how one may overcome it a deep work of surrendering. Of course all this is said from a personal stand point, Like says the Swan in the Hostage of Claudel "I am sitting at the lowest place i cannot be put down anymore" Antoine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2000 Report Share Posted March 7, 2000 >Antoine <carrea > >leteegee wrote: > leteegee > In a message dated 03/06/2000 3:54:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, > GCWein1111 writes: > > > l've had a growing feeling in recent years > > that the various spiritual paths, altho they're different, feel more and > > more the same to me - that l could follow any path and it wouldn't > matter, even > > tho l don't claim to know where they lead in terms of mystical experience. > > lt just feels that my heart's been shattered enough that it doesn't > matter. Do > > others have this feeling? > > Hi Jerrysan, > > I do. Your heart was shattered... mine was my mind. Losing your mind for > awhile certainly helps one value sanity above all else, including any > mystical experiences and raising the kundalini. Your heart's been shattered, > but your love for nature, animals, kids, and I'm sure much more, is stronger > than before. They say that when you break your arm, after healing, the place > of the healed fracture is stronger than any other part. I see this was true > with you. What a blessing! > >Just wanted to comment on the scattered mind, having experienced it deeply also. On the healing process, it also seems from my experience that sanity comes to be valued above all else. I call it the "moral provisoir" (temporary moral), in correlation to the temporary moral Descartes created to allow himself to sink into his meditations, and come out with his Cogito: "I Think for I am". It's a general impression I have that Descartes seems to have bounced on the Cogito, not going "behind" it, into losing ones mind, finding and melting with Chaos, becoming pure synchronicity, psychosis... >Sanity becomes then a God we make, at the least an ethic we apply to come back to it. And with time the value of sanity, as something above all else, comes to vanish, as we come to find out that we can lose it, and it will come back, if it is simply allowed. The fear of loosing sanity is a great fear and how one may overcome it a deep work of surrendering. > >Of course all this is said from a personal stand point, > >Like says the Swan in the Hostage of Claudel "I am sitting at the lowest place i cannot be put down anymore" > >Antoine > More and more I hear the messages here as a roll call, calling my name to say, "Yes, I am present here with you, also at this lowest place." Jerrysan, TG, Antoine..losing mind, sanity, and heart shattered..this descent into the vast sea of the unconscious that births hell and heaven. Tossed back upon the beach, a bit of flotsam, stripped of all, being No-thing...does one so easily pick back up what was lost? How to explain gratitude for the gifts of what others may see as the ultimate disaster? No worst, there is none. The ultimate freefall into nothingness. Landing back into this dream place of illusory somebody's, believing they walk upon solid ground, all working so hard to dissolve this ego thing or to make it satisfied.. Only once just pick it up!! feel the sand running through your fingers, you grasp at insubstantial air. Return to this dreamworld? No thank you, I will walk among them, knowing what I know. What is the value of this knowing? Glo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2000 Report Share Posted March 7, 2000 Hi Glo, Jerry, et al: >More and more I hear the messages here as a roll call, calling my name to say, >"Yes, I am present here with you, also at this lowest place." Jerrysan, TG, >Antoine..losing mind, sanity, and heart shattered..this descent into the vast >sea of the unconscious that births hell and heaven. Tossed back upon the >beach, >a bit of flotsam, stripped of all, being No-thing...does one so easily >pick back >up what was lost? How to explain gratitude for the gifts of what others >may see >as the ultimate disaster? Okay, put me on the list too. I had always walked my own path, followed my own spiritual guru, my inner guide.... never wanted a human guru. But when my Kundalini went active and then into high gear, I was looking for the best techniques to use... and I succumbed to the wrong kind of "guru." In late June of '98 I had a breakdown... the best word I could come up with for the kind of thing you're saying above. I started putting myself together again with the help of my own spiritual guru. Someone offered help, and darned if I didn't fall into exactly the same thing again! You'd think I'd have learned. At least I got away from that one without another breakdown... and I got the rest of the techniques I needed. I don't mean to sound like a victim... in my eyes, I'm not. I asked my guide why he let me get into those situations, why he didn't stop me. He said it was planned before I came into this life... it was a period of rapid karma clearing and rapid growth. Gratitude, yes!! Love, Dharma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2000 Report Share Posted March 10, 2000 In a message dated 3/7/00 7:03:20 AM Eastern Standard Time, shastra writes: I too, looked at the different spiritual paths and realized they were all the same no matter what their differences. I came to an awareness that there are certain times whereby we must walk totally alone and face whatever 'ego' qualities keep us from being truly 'one'. When I finally came to the point that 'it didn't' matter I didn't know if I was looking at wisdom or depression. From that feeling of it 'doesn't matter' came the most wonderful sense of freedom and detachment. The life of tragedy turned into a comedy and then simply into one script in an infinite play. Thanks for your honest sharing. Linda >> Thank you, Linda -- sorry l'm a couple days behind in acknowledging this. l don't think l could come up with a description of my experience that would sound this good, ha ha , maybe this is what l have to look forward to. jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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